TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

PG&E EV Rate Timing Chart by Musterion

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Musterion, Sep 23, 2013.

  1. Musterion

    Musterion 18h 03m 37s −24° 23′ 12″

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    M8
    I've switched to the new EV rate for PG&E and found it useful to post quick-reference charts around my house to remind the household of the different time periods. The closest I found online was the E9 rate chart by TeslaTap.com, so I modified it and used some brighter colors I saw on the Leaf forums for better visibility. Since these got hung on my wall around the house, I ended up added a rendering of the current state of my Model S (you can edit and replace your own). The most recent chart will always be available for download here, or click on the thumbnail image below:

    Musterion's PG&E EV Rate Timing Chart (2013)

    Musterion_PGE_EV_Rate_Timing_2013.jpg


    I put clickable links to the sources, including TeslaTap's E9 and PG&E's EV tariff page, into the PDF Chart. It is difficult to parse the PG&E language on daylight savings correction, so please PM me (link is on chart) if you think there are mistakes. This is my best effort at the times. After sorted out I will make one for 2014.
     
  2. JPP

    JPP Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,841
    Location:
    SF Bay area, CA
    Fabulous--and very timely. My 16kW PV solar system just went on line and PG&E finally came out to swap the meter for the proper net metering version. Was on the phone this morning to switch to the EV rate schedule (of course, they say it will take 1-2 billing cycles...so what's new?).
     
  3. Musterion

    Musterion 18h 03m 37s −24° 23′ 12″

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    M8
    Thanks, you can look up your status at pge.com/building. Mine had "service need by" date of <1 month. However they didn't come out to inspect the transformer until well after that date (and hard to tell if they actually did, but I do know they tried). However without warning I got switched to new rate as shown in the separate PG&E billing page. Shortly before that it looked like my account was in limbo in some kind of superposition state between E1 and EV.
     
  4. spaghetti

    spaghetti Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Very nicely done - thanks for posting this chart. Will be useful around the house.
     
  5. dwegmull

    dwegmull 2013 Model S 85

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    238
    Location:
    Redwood City, California
    That is one nice graphic. I might just have to print it once I switch rate...
    By the way, several companies make real time indicators that are compatible with smart meters: Validated HAN Devices
     
  6. Musterion

    Musterion 18h 03m 37s −24° 23′ 12″

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    M8
    Thank you very much for this HAN link -- I had earlier looked into this and found ones that communicate with the smart meter via the optical port on front, but they were not "approved" by PG&E (and maybe even outlawed). Can you confirm one of these HAN devices that works for you?
     
  7. dwegmull

    dwegmull 2013 Model S 85

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2009
    Messages:
    238
    Location:
    Redwood City, California
    Sorry, I do not have one. I'm still on a basic rate (no time of use), once I switch, I will probably get one of these devices...
     
  8. bareyb

    bareyb Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,067
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
    I am told if you work at home that the EV rate probably won't help you as you are going to pay more during the daytime versus the off peak. Does that sound like an accurate characterization or is that overly simplified?
     
  9. spaghetti

    spaghetti Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Overly simplified. The easiest way to tell if the EV rate will help is to find your existing / typical monthly electricity consumption. If the total kWh consumed without any Tesla charging already puts you in the highest tier of usage, then the EV rate schedule is a no-brainier ASSUMING you charge your Tesla at the lowest cost time per the EV time of use rates.
     
  10. bareyb

    bareyb Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,067
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
    We always hit "Tier 2" and occasionally hit "Tier 3". Would the EV option be right for us?
     
  11. spaghetti

    spaghetti Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    My gut says that the EV rate would be better, but how much you drive will be key. You would need to estimate the total monthly kWh that you will use to charge your Tesla - use the calculators at teslamotors.com. Then see if your total monthly electricity usage for everything puts you in Tier 3 or 4. If you go into Tier 4, then safe to assume that the EV rate will be the better option. If you download your PG&E data and send to me, I will be happy to run a detailed comparison - I did this to convince myself that the EV rate was the way to go.
     
  12. bareyb

    bareyb Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    1,067
    Location:
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Any idea how much kWh it takes to charge a Model S to full charge? We can add that to our bill and see where we end up. My wife is an accountant so hopefully this is in her wheel house. If not, I'll gladly take you up on your offer to run the numbers. Thank you. That's very generous of you. :)

    ETA: Thanks for the tip on the calculator. I wasn't aware of that. Much appreciated!
    '

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh wow... My wife just informed me that we haven't been in Tier 3 in quite a long time. Says we are in Tier 4 pretty much every single month. So it sounds signing up for the the EV rate is definitely the way to go.
     
  13. spaghetti

    spaghetti Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    No problem, happy to help. :smile: One very simple and rough rule of thumb I use for the electricity needed for charging a Model S is 10kWh for every 25 miles driven (assuming typical 65 mph driving with HVAC at 70F). So 1000 mile per month would imply 400 kWh of electricity consumed. Those 400 kWh would cost you $40 at the off-peak EV rate vs $140 at the Tier 4 E1 rate.
     
  14. Musterion

    Musterion 18h 03m 37s −24° 23′ 12″

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    M8
    @bareyb,

    @miimura has the best calculator I've found for comparing EV-A with other rates like E-9, E-1, etc. If you are not on E-9 now it is too late anyway, so your choices are EV-A or EV-B, or other rates not tied to EV. @miimura's tool uses actual downloaded data and even PG&E won't do this for you, so I appreciate the work that went into it. The answer to what rate is complicated by your exact usage patterns and also what you can and/or are willing to shift when going to TOU. In my case it was a slam-dunk, but I use a lot of power for life support like pumping, pressurizing, and heating water that can be shifted to off-peak, along with the Tesla charging.

    PGE downloaded data - Page 3
     
  15. sfriedrich

    sfriedrich Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2012
    Messages:
    52
    I installed this one: Amazon.com : Digi ZigBee Gateway (with Bidgely) : Computers Accessories

    It was not on the PG&E "validated" list, however, they activated and paired with for me with no problem. I am using Bidgely for monitoring. Works totally great for me.
     
  16. miimura

    miimura Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,241
    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    Thanks for the mention and appreciation. I wasn't sure anybody cared or even used it.

    By the way, in all the disclaimers, I did not mention that I don't account for the wonky way that PG&E bills now that the Daylight Savings dates changed. I see your chart did account for this.
     
  17. Klaus

    Klaus Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    444
    @Musterion: Will you be posting an updated chart for 2014?

    AtDhVaAnNkCsE
     
  18. Musterion

    Musterion 18h 03m 37s −24° 23′ 12″

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2013
    Messages:
    337
    Location:
    M8
    RSN!
     
  19. russman

    russman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    385
    Location:
    California
    If you have Solar and are on a different rate schedule, would this work in conjunction, override, or what?

    I have the peak/off-peak/partial-peak/summer/winter stuff. Wondering if I could add an additional EV benefit as well?
     
  20. miimura

    miimura Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,241
    Location:
    Los Altos, CA
    With PG&E, Solar interconnect (connecting the solar system to the grid) gives you NEM (Net Energy Metering). With this system the meter reports the amount of energy you take from the grid or give to the grid. You may choose any rate schedule that would otherwise apply (with or without solar). If you have an EV, you can use the special EV rate with or without solar. I have been calculating my bills on all the residential rates in 2013 and will soon post my full year comparison of solar + EV on all the rate schedules, E-1, E-6, E-9A, EV-A. See this thread for more details.
     

Share This Page