PG&E NEM 2.0

[Ulmo]

You only posted the Summary of NEM charges page. Can you post the Details of NEM Charges page also?

Sure:

It makes NO SENSE to me that I am paying to shut down a perfectly good totally environmentally friendly nuclear power plant that many NEM1 customers lobbied to shut down but aren't paying to shut down. At least a portion of the money supposedly is to guarantee a small token amount of solar power to replace part of the nuclear plant's output. It also makes no sense to me that I am paying for Los Angeles to steal my water from me. I'd rather shoot them than let them have my water. USA citizens don't know how good we have it in such a peaceful land. There's more than enough resource contention in USA to go around if we were not a relatively peaceful society.

Anyway, the NEM2 extra nonavoidable tax charges are enough to push me onto PowerWall 2's plus more solar if I can afford it, so I'm going to steadily push forward with that project and expansion of our solar system. That may be interrupted if we temporarily don't have an electric vehicle. Also, the cost of doubling the solar size is potentially prohibitive as well. I'll slowly munch the numbers. I might get two PowerWall 2's before doubling the solar system. The issue there is that the batteries will suck up the NEM credits unless I have way more solar than battery, and then the nonavoidable charges will still add up at night charging my car unless I pull that out of the battery. There will be lots more to look at. I still want to know when "grid services" will pay for my batteries and how much.

 

[Blup85]

If you install a virtual net meter it's only job is to count the kw you solar produces. You then tell PGE which meters you want the credit to go to, and that may not be near that house or meter. PM me and I'll show you our installation, or call Noel at Bahama Solar here in SLO.

I thought the properties had to be directly adjacent to each other? Can you explain your situation a little more? I'm running out of room at our vacation house for good solar, but I have a lot of room at my primary house. Can I offset my vacation home with energy produced 75+ miles away?

 

[miimura]

I thought the properties had to be directly adjacent to each other? Can you explain your situation a little more? I'm running out of room at our vacation house for good solar, but I have a lot of room at my primary house. Can I offset my vacation home with energy produced 75+ miles away?

No, the meters involved in a Net Meter Aggregation setup have to be on the same property or adjacent properties. They can be on the opposite side of a public road, but they must be adjacent.

Net Energy Metering Aggregation (NEMA)

 

[Lloyd]

I thought the properties had to be directly adjacent to each other? Can you explain your situation a little more? I'm running out of room at our vacation house for good solar, but I have a lot of room at my primary house. Can I offset my vacation home with energy produced 75+ miles away?

Not sure if it works that far away. At my office we are able to feed three separate meters at a percentage that we designate.

This looks like the right answer above

 

[Ulmo]

No, the meters involved in a Net Meter Aggregation setup have to be on the same property or adjacent properties. They can be on the opposite side of a public road, but they must be adjacent.

Net Energy Metering Aggregation (NEMA)

That makes sense in rural settings where many roads cross through property often (even always), and/or owners own many plots adjacent for various rural uses, or even urban, industrial, and farming, for that matter, for similar reasons, as well as campuses and apartment complexes and other complexes.

 

[miimura]

I don't understand how the NBC and NBC Net Usage Adjustment are calculated on the bill posted by @Ulmo above. If you take the net of those two line items for both "seasons" on the bill (it spans the Winter/Summer May 1 transition) and divide by the total 1250kWh he drew from the grid, it comes to just under 1c/kWh. That's not bad. I thought it would be like 5.2c/kWh * 1250kWh = $65.

 

[mrobinson]

Hello,

I'm a solar designer/ have my house on 100% solar offset with battery backup and an electric car owner( not Tesla, yet).

In few years from now I see a PGE/homeowner model of:

Solar Charging Batteries during the day --> Batteries charging you car and running your Peak TOU in the evening.

Would love to help analyze peoples usage and share the results (anonymously). I can download through UtilityAPI.com 15 minute data sets and profile the different options. This is not a sales pitch, You would get free analysis and feedback, I would learn more about how electric car owners who use solar are faring under both NEM1.0 and NEW 2.0. It's pretty important to me so I am offering this up, no charge. I am particularly looking at California PGE customers. I will sign a NDA as needed, no data shared. You can post results here if you like.

If you feel this is overstepping forum rules, even though this is a free service, let me know and i will delete this offer. I understand being skeptical. Attached is the type of Data I would download along with a model with (NBC) non-bypassable charges, As you can see, it's pretty granular.

Thanks,

Michael

 

[Ampster]

I can download through UtilityAPI.com 15 minute data sets and profile the different options.

I can't even download my data as a NEM customer with SCE because they have a glitch that blows the download because of the negative integer. PM me if you want to try this for an SCE NEM customer. I would love to test the various TOU rates.
NB. Rereading your post again, I see that this might be limited to PG&E customers.

 

[mrobinson]

I can't even download my data as a NEM customer with SCE because they have a glitch that blows the download because of the negative integer. PM me if you want to try this for an SCE NEM customer. I would love to test the various TOU rates.
NB. Rereading your post again, I see that this might be limited to PG&E customers.

I sent you a message, I'll give SCE a try.

 

[zamallchi]

I reviewed this thread, but it's still unclear to me what will happen to my cost when I transition from NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0 (because my solar system is being expanded). I'm currently on EV-A. We have a pair of Nissan LEAF's in the garage. I have a Model 3 reservation and I'm looking at used Model X's to replace my spouses aging SUV. Would like the family (three drivers) off gasoline by the end of the decade.

Like other EV drivers, the majority of our usage is overnight and we use a lot of electric power to offset gasoline.

PG&E has assured me that we'll keep EV-A and it will be identical to the EV-A we have under NEMS 1.0.

From my reading so far it appears our PG&E bill will increase due to NBC's applied to the high volume of electrical power we consume overnight to charge multiple EV's. This will get worse as we move to cars with larger batteries and eliminate our ICE SUV.

Can anyone here help me quantify the increase I can expect?

Am I better off keeping my smaller existing solar array and staying on NEMS 1.0?

Thanks for any advice and counsel on this. I'm pretty irritated we don't have the right size system to begin with due to the installers incompetence.

 

[Blup85]

I reviewed this thread, but it's still unclear to me what will happen to my cost when I transition from NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0 (because my solar system is being expanded). I'm currently on EV-A. We have a pair of Nissan LEAF's in the garage. I have a Model 3 reservation and I'm looking at used Model X's to replace my spouses aging SUV. Would like the family (three drivers) off gasoline by the end of the decade.

Like other EV drivers, the majority of our usage is overnight and we use a lot of electric power to offset gasoline.

PG&E has assured me that we'll keep EV-A and it will be identical to the EV-A we have under NEMS 1.0.

From my reading so far it appears our PG&E bill will increase due to NBC's applied to the high volume of electrical power we consume overnight to charge multiple EV's. This will get worse as we move to cars with larger batteries and eliminate our ICE SUV.

Can anyone here help me quantify the increase I can expect?

Am I better off keeping my smaller existing solar array and staying on NEMS 1.0?

Thanks for any advice and counsel on this. I'm pretty irritated we don't have the right size system to begin with due to the installers incompetence.

I have a question for you. Why are you dealing with the utility company anyway? Sounds like nem 1 is better regardless. You already signed up for the interconnect agreement, which gets you nem and ev-a. Just add more panels, get it finaled by the LOCAL building official, done! I didn't talk to pge in the slightest when I added 4 more panels to my PV string.

 

[Ampster]

I didn't talk to pge in the slightest when I added 4 more panels to my PV string

I did the same thing with SCE but my increase was less than ten percent. I understood that was the threshold. I believe my NEM agreement requires me to notify SCE of any changes in the system. I am probably in violation of that.

 

[miimura]

I reviewed this thread, but it's still unclear to me what will happen to my cost when I transition from NEM 1.0 to NEM 2.0 (because my solar system is being expanded). I'm currently on EV-A. We have a pair of Nissan LEAF's in the garage. I have a Model 3 reservation and I'm looking at used Model X's to replace my spouses aging SUV. Would like the family (three drivers) off gasoline by the end of the decade.

Like other EV drivers, the majority of our usage is overnight and we use a lot of electric power to offset gasoline.

PG&E has assured me that we'll keep EV-A and it will be identical to the EV-A we have under NEMS 1.0.

From my reading so far it appears our PG&E bill will increase due to NBC's applied to the high volume of electrical power we consume overnight to charge multiple EV's. This will get worse as we move to cars with larger batteries and eliminate our ICE SUV.

Can anyone here help me quantify the increase I can expect?

Am I better off keeping my smaller existing solar array and staying on NEMS 1.0?

Thanks for any advice and counsel on this. I'm pretty irritated we don't have the right size system to begin with due to the installers incompetence.

Reading the bills provided above and the NEM 2 tariff, I cannot make sense of how the NBC and NBC adjustment calculations work. I would love to be able to give you some estimation of how your bills might change, but my initial guess at NBCs was far higher than what was actually billed to the customer shown above.

PG&E NEM 1.0 allows increases of 10% or 1kW, whichever is greater. Also, I am in Unincorporated Santa Clara County and would not be surprised if the County notified PG&E of all final inspections they performed that affect the utility.

 

[Ulmo]

Reading the bills provided above and the NEM 2 tariff, I cannot make sense of how the NBC and NBC adjustment calculations work. I would love to be able to give you some estimation of how your bills might change, but my initial guess at NBCs was far higher than what was actually billed to the customer shown above.

PG&E NEM 1.0 allows increases of 10% or 1kW, whichever is greater. Also, I am in Unincorporated Santa Clara County and would not be surprised if the County notified PG&E of all final inspections they performed that affect the utility.

I'm in process of making a detailed spreadsheet of my bills. I'm two hours in; I have two more months to go which should take another hour, then another hour for analysis to guess where all the numbers come from. I'll post when ready. I have to go to work now; will be back this evening.

 

[Ulmo]

Here's first draft. I'm going to totally rework it, with page one being data entry, page 2 worksheet, and pages 3 through 5 will mirror what the bill shows.

 

[Ulmo]

Here's first draft. I'm going to totally rework it, with page one being data entry, page 2 worksheet, and pages 3 through 5 will mirror what the bill shows.

Ha! I barely have time to make Draft 2, but it is much better: you can see everything on page 1. Take a look at it. Maybe @miimura will have an easier time parsing it.

Let me know if you don't have Mac or Windows (Numbers or Excel), @miimura ; I'll find a way to export it to Linux.

 

[miimura]

You've done a decent job summarizing all the bill components. What is your actual goal for the spreadsheet?

 

[zamallchi]

Made the leap into the great (regulatory) unknown. Increasing system size 75% and thus moving from NEMS 1.0 to NEMS 2.0 and supposedly keeping EV-A. The expansion is already installed and now waiting for PG&E's PTO. Hopefully this doesn't turn out to be a stupid mistake.

I'll post before and after bills in the next few months if there is an interest in reviewing / analyzing them.

I would like to add Powerwall(s) next if they make financial sense.

 

[miimura]

Made the leap into the great (regulatory) unknown. Increasing system size 75% and thus moving from NEMS 1.0 to NEMS 2.0 and supposedly keeping EV-A. The expansion is already installed and now waiting for PG&E's PTO. Hopefully this doesn't turn out to be a stupid mistake.

I'll post before and after bills in the next few months if there is an interest in reviewing / analyzing them.

I would like to add Powerwall(s) next if they make financial sense.

How much was your annual true up before the expansion? Solar kW before and after? Are you in an area that uses a lot of A/C?

 

[Musterion]

@zamallchi Why did you decide to choose the option to convert your entire system to NEM2 rather than the option to keep existing solar on NEM1 and put expansion on NEM2? Did you calculate a savings for the first option? For such a large expansion (depends on overall system size), I would guess the extra savings for keeping original on NEM1 would offset extra meter cost.

@miimura Do you know if adding a Powerwall to existing solar on NEM1 will trigger an NEM2 upgrade? (Technically it adds 5kW of generation, but from what I now I think I understand from many discussions, that is typically not fed back to grid at peak solar production the way they have set it up).