@tracksyde thanks for your update. So they're getting close, almost under 100 days. If I want to add another four to six panels to my array, I wonder how that would work after June? Twenty-four panels under NEM 1 and four or six under NEM 2.0? Doesn't sound it would be that easy. With an M3 on order, I can probably justify the extra panels.
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PG&E NEM 2.0
- Thread starter miimura
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- Energy Environment Policy
@tracksyde thanks for your update. So they're getting close, almost under 100 days. If I want to add another four to six panels to my array, I wonder how that would work after June? Twenty-four panels under NEM 1 and four or six under NEM 2.0? Doesn't sound it would be that easy. With an M3 on order, I can probably justify the extra panels.
Since we are on the EV rate, my wife is always asking when she should run the dryer/dishwasher (all electric). She is mostly annoyed with it, because I'm the one always maximizing our PV production during peak times. So for fun I made this for her and put it in the cabinet where we get the detergent and under the sink for the dishwasher soap. I calibrated the cost per hour to what our average usage is per hour, but its mostly for fun. 
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Read your tariff. PG&E allows maintenance and upgrades up to the greater of 10% or 1kW without kicking you out of NEM 1.0. If you want to separately meter the new generation, you can keep running the old one on NEM 1 and the new one on NEM 2. However, setting up separate metering is expensive.
Ulmo - I'm in similar situation as you. Currently on E1 with NEM1.0 and recently bought a Tesla... Called PG&E to ask T&C about converting to EV-A... PG&E told me the following: 1) You're grandfathered in under NEM1.0. This will not change if you switch to EV-A ... I called twice to confirm this.... 2) All surplus energy you generate during daytime will get 'sold' to PG&E at retail rate... So this would imply that generating a 10kWh surplus during daytime is worth 10*$0.42 = $4.2 while buying energy back at night only costs $0.12/kWh .... So Sell High Buy LOW....
Obvisouly is ONLY works if you are grandfathered into NEM1.0 and ignores the extra charge cost you generate at night for charging your Car.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
The NEM Tariff always talks about OAS, or Otherwise Applicable rate Schedule. Changing the rate schedule from, say E-1, to EV-A, should not affect your NEM 1.0 status in any way. However, I will not assume any liability for holding that opinion.
PG&E NEM 1 Tariff
PG&E NEM 1 Tariff
Ulmo
Active Member
Wshowell
Member
I stumped PG&E with this question and the "let me check on that and call you Back" never happened. I'd like to see if anyone here has an answer. We have a ranch with 2 houses (my family in older home and my parents in newer) 0ne APN. If we build a 12 KW ground mounted solar array, all the power will be directed through my parent's electrical panel and we will use "aggregate metering" combining both meters into one bill (PGE allows this, well CA forced them to 'allow' this). This will allow the solar array to offset much of the usage during the day. Since 100% of my house's electrical consumption will come from the grid but my parent's will be back feeding the grid to offset both houses, in theory the panels will offset not justbtheir consumption but ours too. How will NEM 2.0 affect my portion of the bill? I assume I'm stuck with paying the grid consumption fees on my house because of how we are setting this up as my meter never runs backwards. We are not splitting the solar array because we would need to run and bury 1/4 mile of wiring just to get to my panel across a heavily wooded canyon. Some day hopefully in the distant future, my wife and I will move to the new house and our house will become a rental. Then we will feed all 12 KW into our house that will have multiple EV's and Powerwalls.
You can have a virtual net meter which can split the solar distribution to your two meters. I just did this at my office.
Wshowell
Member
Hello Lloyd. We are out here on Old Oak Park in rural AG. Can you provide some more details? I just figured that if I used 1000 KWH in a month and the other meter offset 1000 KWH in the same month that I'd be stuck with $.02 per KWH grid sourced consumption fees even though technically I fully offset my usage.
If you install a virtual net meter it's only job is to count the kw you solar produces. You then tell PGE which meters you want the credit to go to, and that may not be near that house or meter. PM me and I'll show you our installation, or call Noel at Bahama Solar here in SLO.
Mimura understands PG & E better than I do but I will offer the following construct to help understand the California regulatory environment and tarriffs. With regard to net metering there are two aspects. One is the whether you are on NEM 1.0 or NEM 2.0. This is based on when your system was approved. In concept it will not change for many years and that is why the term grandfathered comes into the conversation. These NEM tariffs deal with the concept of being paid for solar generation and what fixed and variable charges the utilities are allowed to charge a NEM customer. The NEM tarriffs do not speak to the actual generation and distribution rates on your bill. Those are discussed below.
The second concept is the rate plan that you choose. There are many rate plans but the CPUC has said that by 2019 every IOU must have their customers on Time of Use rate plans. Since TOU rates are generally beneficial to solar customers that is why most solar customers choose one of the several TOU rates plans available. The important thing about rate plans is that they change every year when the utility goes to the CPUC and negotiates new rates. They may also slightly change the hours when certain rates apply.
Therefore the concept I am suggesting is one is grandfathered into a NEM 1.0 or 2.0 arrangement but we are free to change the TOU rate from time to time. There may be limitations on how often we can change because of the timing of true up accounting.
Interestingly some of this may change with the trend toward Community Choice Aggregation. With a CCA your status on NEM 1.0 or 2.0 will not change but the generation portion of your bill could change. It could change positively as well since several CCAs have said that they will pay retail for solar generation and at true up your refund might not be discounted to wholesale.
The second concept is the rate plan that you choose. There are many rate plans but the CPUC has said that by 2019 every IOU must have their customers on Time of Use rate plans. Since TOU rates are generally beneficial to solar customers that is why most solar customers choose one of the several TOU rates plans available. The important thing about rate plans is that they change every year when the utility goes to the CPUC and negotiates new rates. They may also slightly change the hours when certain rates apply.
Therefore the concept I am suggesting is one is grandfathered into a NEM 1.0 or 2.0 arrangement but we are free to change the TOU rate from time to time. There may be limitations on how often we can change because of the timing of true up accounting.
Interestingly some of this may change with the trend toward Community Choice Aggregation. With a CCA your status on NEM 1.0 or 2.0 will not change but the generation portion of your bill could change. It could change positively as well since several CCAs have said that they will pay retail for solar generation and at true up your refund might not be discounted to wholesale.
My impression from watching the PG&E Tariffs for several years is that the TOU time periods do not change inside one Rate Schedule. When they decide that the time periods need to be changed, they come up with a new rate schedule and close the old one. This happened with E-7, E-8, and E-9. They were closed for a couple years, then eventually they kicked people off onto another schedule. I don't know how that actually works because I left E-9A for EV-A before the deadline. After I got the second EV, EV-A was cheaper.
However, the prices within a certain rate schedule can change pretty often. In the last 10 years, rates have changed between 3 and 6 times per year. In 2016, Residential rates changed a lot because of a major rate case. The shortest period was March 1 to March 23, 2016.
I will repeat one more time. If you are on NEM 1.0, you are guaranteed 20 years on that Tariff from your initial Permission to Operate letter as long as you don't increase your generation capacity by more than the greater of 10% or 1kW nameplate rating. Changing between Rate Schedules like E-1, E-TOU, or EV should not affect your enrollment in NEM. Under normal circumstances, you can only change rate schedules every 12 months. However, you can enroll in EV at any time from a non-EV rate schedule.
However, the prices within a certain rate schedule can change pretty often. In the last 10 years, rates have changed between 3 and 6 times per year. In 2016, Residential rates changed a lot because of a major rate case. The shortest period was March 1 to March 23, 2016.
I will repeat one more time. If you are on NEM 1.0, you are guaranteed 20 years on that Tariff from your initial Permission to Operate letter as long as you don't increase your generation capacity by more than the greater of 10% or 1kW nameplate rating. Changing between Rate Schedules like E-1, E-TOU, or EV should not affect your enrollment in NEM. Under normal circumstances, you can only change rate schedules every 12 months. However, you can enroll in EV at any time from a non-EV rate schedule.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
Ulmo, Miimura, thank you for your confirmation. I think you answered my first question regarding grandfathering into NEM1. If I can get an explicit confirmation from PG&E I will share with this forum.
Second open question is related to how True UP works when combining EV-A with NEM1... PG&E told me on the phone I would get retail rates for my production into the grid which would imply getting EV-A peak rate for the afternoon California Sunshine... Obviously this would be very beneficial as every kWH fed into the grid in the afternoon would yield 3x or more kWh used at night...Subject to EV-A rates and times (which change regularly) Again any insight or confirmation would be greatly appreciated....
thanks
If you are in Sonoma Clean Power territory you should opt in if you have not already been automatically signed up. SCP will give you retail at true up whereas P G & E will only give you wholesale at true up. If in doubt call SCP, their office is in Santa Rosa.
Sonoma Clean Power | Your Local Public Electricity Provider
The new PG&E billing that is consolidated on the "blue bill" is clearer than it used to be when the true-up statements were separate on a black and white letter size page. Below are the relevant portions of my most recent bill. I have a small 4.32kW DC solar system with some winter shading. I also charge two EVs, so my usage is very strongly skewed to off-peak. My last annual True-Up was about $1,000. The biggest difference between the CCAs and the PG&E policy is revealed when you have a negative dollar true-up balance but are still a net consumer of kWh energy. In that case, PG&E will wipe out your credit balance and you get nothing. PG&E will only pay you for excess kWh generation, called Net Surplus Compensation. You will only get that if you generated more total kWh than you consumed, and PG&E only pays about 3.5c/kWh. A CCA will pay you their full retail Generation price. However, you may still have a distribution credit on your PG&E bill that will still be wiped out.
Since this is a NEM 2.0 thread, I will point out that there would also be an additional calculation somewhere on the bill that will use the figures from the Service Information table. You will have Non-Bypassable Charges equal to about 5.25c/kWh times the Consumption kWh shown in that table. In my case, that comes to about $47.60 for this billing period. In my specific situation, I don't think this would result in additional charges, but if you were generating more, this amount could be a monthly minimum charge, or be added to your otherwise negative dollar amount added to your true-up. I would really like to see some NEM 2 bills to see how this works.
Since this is a NEM 2.0 thread, I will point out that there would also be an additional calculation somewhere on the bill that will use the figures from the Service Information table. You will have Non-Bypassable Charges equal to about 5.25c/kWh times the Consumption kWh shown in that table. In my case, that comes to about $47.60 for this billing period. In my specific situation, I don't think this would result in additional charges, but if you were generating more, this amount could be a monthly minimum charge, or be added to your otherwise negative dollar amount added to your true-up. I would really like to see some NEM 2 bills to see how this works.
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Ulmo
Active Member
I already posted an excerpt of one of my NEM2 bills pre-"true-up" on TMC here:
cost per charge at home ??
Note that NEM2 has never seen a regular annual "true-up" by anyone yet, because it hasn't been around for a year yet, so I can't offer any anecdotal end of annual period insight.
cost per charge at home ??
Note that NEM2 has never seen a regular annual "true-up" by anyone yet, because it hasn't been around for a year yet, so I can't offer any anecdotal end of annual period insight.
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You only posted the Summary of NEM charges page. Can you post the Details of NEM Charges page also?
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