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Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car
- Thread starter RHINO SKIN SOL
- Start date
laservet
Member
Is anyone with 2022.8.3 still experiencing PB? It's been 10 days (and another 9 days with 2022.8.2) and had just one incidence, and that was when a person was trying to hitch hike, sticking his arm into the lane!
Other than this, I experienced zero PBs. When I had 2022.3.101.1, I was getting them all the time. Today, I drove on the 2-lane road with tonne of shadows casting into my lane. Zero PBs.
I'm surprised that people are still reporting this frequent PBs...
Other than this, I experienced zero PBs. When I had 2022.3.101.1, I was getting them all the time. Today, I drove on the 2-lane road with tonne of shadows casting into my lane. Zero PBs.
I'm surprised that people are still reporting this frequent PBs...
I am on a road trip with 2022.8.3. About 170 miles today on an Interstate, 100 miles on four lane divided highways, and 24 miles on a two-lane road. I used TACC+Autosteer most of the way. The Interstate portion was flawless. On the two lane road, I met 4 semi's (one all white!), and 3 pickups pulling large trailers without any problems. Zero slowdowns from the oncoming trucks ... not even 1 mph. This really is a major improvement.
As I related in my other post, 2022.8.3 is working great for me. The problem with oncoming big trucks on two lane highways seems to have disappeared for me ... so far.
Kind of like your hitchhiker incident, my car had an issue with a stop sign turned facing me at an intersection with a dirt road. The car flashed a message in the shape of a stop sign and asked me to take over. I saw the sign and it was definitely facing me. Not sure what else the car should have done.
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WyomingEV
Member
I agree, I think 2022.8.2/3 has fixed the AP issues completely when it comes to day time driving and any sort of on coming truck. A bit of PB when the road is unknown but I suppose that is good. I am so happy it is working again, I just sold my '18 M3 and was missing it big time. When AP works it is just the greatest experience - thank you Tesla for fixing this.
Now, fix auto headlights when using the wipers and stop with the auto-high beams when using AP - your auto high beams are BAD!
I finally was able to go on a drive with 2022.8.3 on a two-lane highway that used to give my Model Y fits. Car worked really well on both TACC and TACC/Autosteer, even on the hills and curves where tractor-trailers used to make it go crazy. I'm very happy with the car!
There was one weird incident: on a flat stretch with no oncoming traffic, the car decided that it didn't want to go any faster than 50mph even though the speed limit was 55 (I had TACC at 60). I thought maybe it misread a speed-limit sign, but the display said 60 MAX. After turning TACC off and restarting it, everything worked fine. Odd.
I finally had one bad experience with AP today. It was dark, at 9pm and it kept missing 80km/h sign, thinking the road we are on is 60km/h. Dunno where it gets that info, since the entire portion of that road is 80km/h. Probably not in the category of PB, but unwanted slowdown nonetheless.
So I switched to TACC and obviously that caused no issues.
I also discovered what everyone here is talking about with respect to that crazy auto-high headlights. I'm sure this can be improved via software.
So I switched to TACC and obviously that caused no issues.
I also discovered what everyone here is talking about with respect to that crazy auto-high headlights. I'm sure this can be improved via software.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I wouldn’t classify that as phantom braking, just bad map data. I have several areas like that - on one the car sees the speed limit sign (55) and then about 200 feet later decides the speed limit is 35 and promptly drops its speed back down. Supposedly they have plans to move away from map-based heuristics for AP and FSD so hopefully this will get better. Otherwise there will always be areas where bad map data causes bad driving.I finally had one bad experience with AP today. It was dark, at 9pm and it kept missing 80km/h sign, thinking the road we are on is 60km/h. Dunno where it gets that info, since the entire portion of that road is 80km/h. Probably not in the category of PB, but unwanted slowdown nonetheless.
So I switched to TACC and obviously that caused no issues.
I also discovered what everyone here is talking about with respect to that crazy auto-high headlights. I'm sure this can be improved via software.
I also discovered what everyone here is talking about with respect to that crazy auto-high headlights. I'm sure this can be improved via software.
Do you really think they can fix it with software? This car is the worst I've ever driven with respect to auto-headlights, and Tesla still keeps ramming it down our throats by overriding the auto-highbeam settings whenever AP is enabled. They seem to think it works fine, which makes me think they're never going to fix it.
laservet
Member
They have a lot on their plates, much of it far more important than the auto headlights. That doesn't mean they think it works fine, that's a real reach on your part. When you buy a Tesla, patience is a virtue.
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
I’ve had cars with auto headlights but not auto dimming headlights. The auto headlights work as well as they have in any car I’ve owned. My only minor quibble is that it would be nice if they came on with the wipers, but that’s a separate issue. (It sounds like Tesla used to do that but took it away for some reason?)
As far as the auto dimming functionality goes, it absolutely can be fixed with software. I don’t know how other cars sense when to turn the brights on and off but the two ways I can think of are a ‘dumb’ photo sensor and the cameras. I’m fairly certain Tesla uses the camera and tries to estimate distance based on paralax and stereoscopic comparison. This is intrinsically harder at night but beyond that is the fuzzy logic humans use. If there’s a car coming, most humans won’t bother to turn the brights back on. I think Tesla utilizes some sort of hysteresis (i.e. it turns them off for a car within 150 feet but won’t turn them on if there’s a car within 200 feet) but even that will mess up if there’s another car at 201 feet and you end up ‘flashing’ your brights at cars. (that’s not to mention the times when you can see lights coming over a hill or around a corner) I’m also fairly certain Tesla used the brights to maximize the visibility for AP & FSD.
TLDR: Tesla has reasons for using the brights and like many things with driving, programming auto-dimming headlights isn’t as straightforward as it would first seem.
As far as the auto dimming functionality goes, it absolutely can be fixed with software. I don’t know how other cars sense when to turn the brights on and off but the two ways I can think of are a ‘dumb’ photo sensor and the cameras. I’m fairly certain Tesla uses the camera and tries to estimate distance based on paralax and stereoscopic comparison. This is intrinsically harder at night but beyond that is the fuzzy logic humans use. If there’s a car coming, most humans won’t bother to turn the brights back on. I think Tesla utilizes some sort of hysteresis (i.e. it turns them off for a car within 150 feet but won’t turn them on if there’s a car within 200 feet) but even that will mess up if there’s another car at 201 feet and you end up ‘flashing’ your brights at cars. (that’s not to mention the times when you can see lights coming over a hill or around a corner) I’m also fairly certain Tesla used the brights to maximize the visibility for AP & FSD.
TLDR: Tesla has reasons for using the brights and like many things with driving, programming auto-dimming headlights isn’t as straightforward as it would first seem.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Yes, they have them on because it helps visibility for AP (annoyance to driver aside). Most likely they are still working on it (just like how they have worked on the wipers), but probably it is lower priority than ensuring visibility for the cameras.
digitaldad
Member
If the new software has fixed (or dramatically improved) phantom braking, how come it is not acknowledged in any of the release notes? I'm happy for the news, don't get me wrong but would this be kind of gloating news?
sleepydoc
Well-Known Member
1. They can’t cover everything in the release notes.
2. From a PR perspective saying they fixed it is implicitly saying it was a problem
3. It’s very possible that other improvements indirectly fixed phantom breaking, So while Phantom breaking May have improved, it may not have been the actual target of the improvement
Personally, I don’t care if I mentioned it or not. I’m just glad that it’s improving.
PACEMD
Active Member
They never acknowledged that PB existed as a "real" problem to begin with... why would they say they solved a problem that they never admitted to having?
Keith
boulder.dude
Member
2022.8.3 has fixed PB due to oncoming trucks on two lane highways. I did the same trip (Boulder to Laramie) yesterday as I did last March in the same visibility conditions, and the improvement was dramatic.
The one area of consistent PB that I still experience is mirages on the road. 🏜 Anybody else experience that?
The one area of consistent PB that I still experience is mirages on the road. 🏜 Anybody else experience that?
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