Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car

[Corndart]

Didn't want to start yet another phantom braking / TACC / Autopilot / FSD sucks thread so plastering it here.

Something in the last few software updates must have improved TACC / Autopilot. Vehicle is on 2022.20.7 but even the previous update (IDR the version number) has made TACC specifically on the highway much more predictable and less disconcerting. I've done a few cross-state trips on I90 between Seattle <> North Idaho, and the last couple of segments have been encounter-free meaning no phantom braking events. These same sections of the highway in similar conditions were to the point where I previously would just turn it off for most of the trip. I've ruled out variables such as time of day, weather conditions, how many bugs the front collects, particularly coming out of the mountain pass into central Washington, etc...

Anyone else notice improvements? Could be just good fortune but fingers crossed, the trend holds.

 

[OxBrew]

Didn't want to start yet another phantom braking / TACC / Autopilot / FSD sucks thread so plastering it here.

Something in the last few software updates must have improved TACC / Autopilot. Vehicle is on 2022.20.7 but even the previous update (IDR the version number) has made TACC specifically on the highway much more predictable and less disconcerting. I've done a few cross-state trips on I90 between Seattle <> North Idaho, and the last couple of segments have been encounter-free meaning no phantom braking events. These same sections of the highway in similar conditions were to the point where I previously would just turn it off for most of the trip. I've ruled out variables such as time of day, weather conditions, how many bugs the front collects, particularly coming out of the mountain pass into central Washington, etc...

Anyone else notice improvements? Could be just good fortune but fingers crossed, the trend holds.

Same, much better on that stretch of road. I90 between about Cle Elum and Vantage was horrible, dozens of PB events before, now it's flawless.

 

[Corndart]

Same, much better on that stretch of road. I90 between about Cle Elum and Vantage was horrible, dozens of PB events before, now it's flawless.

Thanks for the feedback!

The other legitimately scary place was through Snoqualmie Pass. Between the lane composition changes (width and number), jersey barriers, corners and variable speed limit, had a few pucker up moments where the car would slam on the brakes. Now it definitely slows down for corners but it's very moderate velocity changes and sane IMO, like what a human should do.

That section between Cle Elum and Vantage was definitely bad, a few of those overpasses would nearly 100% trigger a hard PB.

 

[WhiteWi]

I had slowdowns back in the July when I was driving next to semis on my trip to NJ. Again all predictable and understandable why.

 

[sleepydoc]

I had slowdowns back in the July when I was driving next to semis on my trip to NJ. Again all predictable and understandable why.

Why should it slow down when driving next to a semi? If anything you should speed up temporarily to get past it (and out of its blind spot.)

 

[WhiteWi]

Why should it slow down when driving next to a semi? If anything you should speed up temporarily to get past it (and out of its blind spot.)

Bc they tend to be all over the road like a lot .

 

[WhiteWi]

Hey sleepdoc don’t you have a story to run around with? That Tesla FSD don’t see children lol

 

[DrGriz]

Hey sleepdoc don’t you have a story to run around with? That Tesla FSD don’t see children lol

It doesn't see a 2000 lb bull standing crosswise in the road 20 feet in front of you, either. Just saying.

 

[sleepydoc]

Hey sleepdoc don’t you have a story to run around with? That Tesla FSD don’t see children lol

No - my car slows down when it's not supposed to. I've never had it not slow down when it is supposed to. Of course, I pay attention, too, so I can take over if necessary. FSD is also much worse than TACC when it comes to phantom braking, but it's still very much in beta and also doing a lot more than plain TACC so that's to be expected.

At this point my firmware (12.3.20) is several versions old so it's not necessarily an accurate representation of TACC's current state. Hopefully I'll get an update in the next few weeks.

 

[sleepydoc]

It doesn't see a 2000 lb bull standing crosswise in the road 20 feet in front of you, either. Just saying.

is that where all the B.S. coming out of Elon's mouth is from? (e.g. driverless robotaxi's by 2020)

 

[soumak]

Bc they tend to be all over the road like a lot .

if it was a person, a person would only slow down if they are coming into their lane and then zoom by them. guess tesla still has a ways to go to catch up with being better drivers than your average human.

 

[MylerB]

Would others agree PB is reduced? This is pretty much the only major concern I have as a new buyer (delivery in 2 weeks). I’ve been scouring this forum, Reddit, and other places trying to identify any trends - looks like it’s still very mixed but these recent posts are encouraging.

 

[SalisburySam]

Would others agree PB is reduced? This is pretty much the only major concern I have as a new buyer (delivery in 2 weeks). I’ve been scouring this forum, Reddit, and other places trying to identify any trends - looks like it’s still very mixed but these recent posts are encouraging.

PB not reduced in my 2018 car after 108 updates; it just gets better, worse, better, lather, rinse, repeat. Your much newer vehicle would hopefully benefit from improvements to the hardware and sensors, hopefully, so likely less of an issue for you. And it would appear that PB in general is an annoyance to only a small segment of Tesla owners, not all.

 

[SkyDog]

Would others agree PB is reduced? This is pretty much the only major concern I have as a new buyer (delivery in 2 weeks). I’ve been scouring this forum, Reddit, and other places trying to identify any trends - looks like it’s still very mixed but these recent posts are encouraging.

All of these PB reports had me worried before buying a Tesla, but I took the chance - I got my MYLR in February, and have not had a single occurrence of phantom braking. Occasionally it'll slow down a bit when there's a bicycle or pedestrian on the road, or on very curvy sections where autopilot isn't really intended for anyway. Sometimes it slows when a car is turning in front of me, and I don't think the slowdown was really necessary. But ho hard braking that was any cause for alarm.

 

[CaseyL]

Would others agree PB is reduced? This is pretty much the only major concern I have as a new buyer (delivery in 2 weeks). I’ve been scouring this forum, Reddit, and other places trying to identify any trends - looks like it’s still very mixed but these recent posts are encouraging.

It is much, much better. I haven't had any issues in a long time now.

 

[CyberGus]

To eliminate phantom braking, just put a child mannequin in front of you. Apparently, the car won't stop ever

 

[Electroman]

All of these PB reports had me worried before buying a Tesla, but I took the chance - I got my MYLR in February, and have not had a single occurrence of phantom braking. Occasionally it'll slow down a bit when there's a bicycle or pedestrian on the road, or on very curvy sections where autopilot isn't really intended for anyway. Sometimes it slows when a car is turning in front of me, and I don't think the slowdown was really necessary. But ho hard braking that was any cause for alarm.

Same here. There were a handful of slowdowns in the past - 3 or 4 occasions - but never anything that I would equate to braking in 15k miles of driving.

 

[SpaceKat]

Would others agree PB is reduced? This is pretty much the only major concern I have as a new buyer (delivery in 2 weeks). I’ve been scouring this forum, Reddit, and other places trying to identify any trends - looks like it’s still very mixed but these recent posts are encouraging.

When I received my car in January, TACC was unusable and untrustworthy. After I received 2022.8, things became much better. I have done some highway driving since, and it behaved well. Though I'm beginning to use the system, I still don't trust it if someone's right behind me. Maybe that trust will come after more good behavior from the software.

TACC now seems disinterested in what happens in adjacent or opposing lanes, so that's great. It does not respond to cross traffic well at all, often braking well after the traffic has departed the lane.

 

[moto_marco]

Best solution to our problem is to open a case with NHTSA. I did that and enclosed a description of when it happened along with screenshots of what I believe caused it (shadow and dark patches on the road). It's just unacceptable to be cruising along at 75mph with nothing around you and suddenly the car slams on the brakes. NHTSA will demand Tesla fix this (and I think they are currently).

I love the car, and especially Autopilot - but that's unpredictable to use as well. God help you if you are merging with another lane and the road stripes stop so the car loses it's reference. If there's a car in the other lane it will brake and jerk left instead of just staying in the current lane. If they cannot get Autopilot work without frightening the wits out of you, how will Full Driving ever make it?

 

[Electroman]

Best solution to our problem is to open a case with NHTSA. I did that and enclosed a description of when it happened along with screenshots of what I believe caused it (shadow and dark patches on the road). It's just unacceptable to be cruising along at 75mph with nothing around you and suddenly the car slams on the brakes. NHTSA will demand Tesla fix this (and I think they are currently).

I love the car, and especially Autopilot - but that's unpredictable to use as well. God help you if you are merging with another lane and the road stripes stop so the car loses it's reference. If there's a car in the other lane it will brake and jerk left instead of just staying in the current lane. If they cannot get Autopilot work without frightening the wits out of you, how will Full Driving ever make it?

Every other companies lane keeping (or intelligent cruise) function is far worse and have the same problems. Less so in Tesla, but since Tesla's Autopilot is so good, it is used extensively by everyone and the problems are just magnified. The other companies lane keeping function, drivers hardly use it and so you don't hear about it.

If NHTSA were to focus on Tesla's phantom braking problem, then they better give the same attention to other manufacturers too.