PHEV v Pure EV at charging points

[Neilio]

What are our thoughts on PHEVS at charging points? I don't mind them using them of course but should priority be given to BEVs? Not sure how it would work but it just seems that a BEV wouldn't be able to go anywhere if it couldn't charge, a PHEV can at least top up at a petrol station.

How about if, say, a bank of 4 chargers has 3 BEV only and one for PHEV and BEV?

The reason I was thinking about it is, at my apartment, we have 8 charging points and someone in an i8 ALWAYS blocks one. Their car is on a charger all the time. Everyone else just charges up and moves their car (there are more than 8 BEV/PHEV in our building so we can't just use one each. They can't possibly be charging all that time and it irks me they won't move their car so a pure EV can get in

 

[Jeeves]

The i8 owner is your problem, not the PHEV owners.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

As someone who owned a PHEV for about 5 years, I'd say it makes sense to charge PHEVs at destination charge points, but not really at roadside charge points en route. I used to always charge mine both ends of my commute, for example.

In your case it seems the question is more about charge point etiquette, and whether any vehicle that needs charging should stay at a destination charge point for longer than they need to charge. If a PHEV cannot charge, then it can't drive efficiently. I used to drive mine in EV mode for a lot of the time, perhaps around 60% to 70% of my daily commute.

PHEVs generally charge a bit more quickly, but many only have slow chargers, mine was limited to about 2.5 kW, IIRC. The i8 takes around 3 hours to charge, apparently, and most PHEVs will arrive at their destination with a nearly flat battery every time (at least mine always did - it makes sense to use all the battery energy every trip if possible). That 3 hours may well not be much less time than a BEV takes to destination charge after a commute.

 

[Neilio]

The i8 owner is your problem, not the PHEV owners.

Fair point. I still think there's something in differentiating between PHEV and BEV given how much trouble BEVs would be in if they couldn't charge

 

[Dilly]

Whether you drive a PHEV or a BEV, etiquette should always be to vacate a charger when you’ve finished. That’s the issue. Driving on battery is about minimising air pollution. Both types of vehicle have every right to use chargers. As an owner of both, I practice what I preach.

I would be equally annoyed by either type of vehicle having fully charged, continuing to hog a charger.

 

[MrBadger]

How I see it is that a PHEV has as much right to charge at their home, shared or otherwise as everyone else - they probably fill up in a couple of hours.

The issue is any vehicle not moving on once fully charged.

The same argument as the OP could be levied at any BEV with long range/large battery. Why do they hog the charge point for hours on end when smaller BEV's only need a few hours but are more range limited.

Going full circle for Tesla owners - substitute petrol station for supercharger.

imho, if you have a dedicated charge point, treat it as you want. If you share the charge point, only use it for as long as is necessary.

NeedToCharge | The friendly way to share an EV charger

 

[Glan gluaisne]

There are a couple of hotels we've stayed at that have only had a single destination charge point, and both have a system for managing charge point usage. One controls charging slots in a diary kept in reception, and they keep track of who needs to charge and call to advise when the charge point is free. The other just runs an informal system where they note down who needs to charge and ask the guest who has the card to pass it on to the next guest on the list as soon as they've finished charging.

Both systems work OK, although I've found the second one to be easier, as it's much simpler to coordinate directly with whoever else wants to charge than it is to go through reception, with the inevitable glitches when shifts change.

Perhaps there needs to be a charge point roster if there are more cars needing to charge than available charge points? Whether that would work or not depends on the reasonableness of the car owners, but our experience when doing something like this when away on holiday has been that it works well, and often gives an excuse to chat about the various merits of different EVs.

 

[Gasman23]

I’d be inclined to leave a polite note for the i8 driver explaining the situation as they may not be aware of the number of evs needing to charge. Educating people about charging etiquette doesn’t have to be done aggressively.

If they still don’t move then I’d report the issue to the management company. Don’t some places charge an idle fee?

 

[Neilio]

I’d be inclined to leave a polite note for the i8 driver explaining the situation as they may not be aware of the number of evs needing to charge. Educating people about charging etiquette doesn’t have to be done aggressively.

If they still don’t move then I’d report the issue to the management company. Don’t some places charge an idle fee?

Idle fees are a good thing. Sadly no such thing happens in our building. TBH I wouldn't have been bothered about it 6 months ago because there weren't enough EVs to use the chargers but now we have more EV than charge points in the building so I feel peopel should be a bit better at vacating the chargers.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

PHEVs need to charge more often than you do to do more of their journeys on EV as they have less range. People at the local railway dtation used to get all argumentative saying PHEVs shouldn't park there, however a PHEV owner pointed out that by charging at home and the station he could get to and from the station on electricity. An EV owner (with home charging) driving 10 miles to the railway station and leaving their car plugged in are almost certainly just using it as a bigger parking bay and get no real utility from the charger (if they have no home charging then it would be different).

I know thats a slightly different scenario to you but I think they are entitled to charge. The issue is them not moving once full.

As an aside an i8 only charges at 16A and if its a faclift model (has coupe written in the side) it can take 5-6 hours to fully charge. The prefacelift will take about 3-4 hours to give you some idea on how long they might need to be plugged in..

 

[m3gt2]

Maybe not let them charge at small charging stations of less than 8 chargers (at services), if it has 8 or more chargers maybe allow access to 25% of them? I think destination chargers at retail parks/supermarkets etc is fine

 

[Dilly]

Maybe not let them charge at small charging stations of less than 8 chargers (at services), if it has 8 or more chargers maybe allow access to 25% of them? I think destination chargers at retail parks/supermarkets etc is fine

But that’s not the point of public chargers. They are for any electric vehicle. It’s about educating users. Anyone who has enough safe range to get home shouldn’t, in all honesty, be using them assuming they can charge at home.
There’s a free supermarket one near me. I wouldn’t it contemplate using it for either my PHEV or my BEV.

 

[m3gt2]

But that’s not the point of public chargers. They are for any electric vehicle. It’s about educating users. Anyone who has enough safe range to get home shouldn’t, in all honesty, be using them assuming they can charge at home.
There’s a free supermarket one near me. I wouldn’t it contemplate using it for either my PHEV or my BEV.

You make bad if points but PHEV don't need to charge to carry on with their journey but BEV do, particularly at motorway services etc. Tesla drivers are lucky with the Supercharging network to have access to sites with plenty of chargers, many are not so fortunate. If you drive a Zoe etc you will more than likely see 1 or 2 ecotricity chargers and they may or may not be working. Now bigger developments are happening it shouldn't be such an issue. I totally agree about educating though, it's much needed and I think it needs to begin at the dealerships selling the cars so it can be filtered down to new owners from the beginning.

 

[Dilly]

You make bad if points but PHEV don't need to charge to carry on with their journey but BEV do, particularly at motorway services etc. Tesla drivers are lucky with the Supercharging network to have access to sites with plenty of chargers, many are not so fortunate. If you drive a Zoe etc you will more than likely see 1 or 2 ecotricity chargers and they may or may not be working. Now bigger developments are happening it shouldn't be such an issue. I totally agree about educating though, it's much needed and I think it needs to begin at the dealerships selling the cars so it can be filtered down to new owners from the beginning.

It is of course allied to supply and demand. One would not dream of arguing the toss at petrol pumps where a car with a large tank is filling, making a car with an empty tank wait. At present, there aren’t enough chargers, and worse, many are poorly maintained and inconsistent in both payment method and pricing and we are still in early days! Assuming one day most if not all cars are electric and have much improved batteries, we will still need sufficient chargers to match the traffic throughput of petrol stations.

 

[Gasman23]

Maybe not let them charge at small charging stations of less than 8 chargers (at services), if it has 8 or more chargers maybe allow access to 25% of them? I think destination chargers at retail parks/supermarkets etc is fine

I think it’s unreasonable to ask a Phev driver not to charge. You’re basically asking them to shoulder a higher cost and travel on petrol just so you can charge instead. Not their fault we bought a full ev

 

[Js1977]

Would go as far as saying that the I8 just likes to hog the space as his own

On a side not, the Mrs like to charge when she parks at tescos even though we dont need to... she just like that the spaces are bigger and less chance of someone knocking a door into the car. I personally dont think this is right but cars are either getting bigger or parking spaces smaller/narrower these days

 

[Dilly]

Would go as far as saying that the I8 just likes to hog the space as his own

On a side not, the Mrs like to charge when she parks at tescos even though we dont need to... she just like that the spaces are bigger and less chance of someone knocking a door into the car. I personally dont think this is right but cars are either getting bigger or parking spaces smaller/narrower these days

Parking spaces are definitely getting smaller! A new car park locally, has 5 disabled spaces. I use them when I take mother-in-law. They are no different to all the other spaces and are so tight, even I have to squeeze out of a partially opened door. Not a prayer of getting her wheelchair beside the car. I don’t which planner signed that off, but they want sacking!

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

On a side not, the Mrs like to charge when she parks at tescos even though we dont need to... she just like that the spaces are bigger and less chance of someone knocking a door into the car. I personally dont think this is right but cars are either getting bigger or parking spaces smaller/narrower these days

I'd agree with you, but lets face it, supermarket charging bays have little do with people really needing to charge most of the time, its all about making people feel like they're getting a deal. For years supermarkets have competed on the price of milk, then it was a 2p off a litre of fuel, now its chargiers, yet lots of other stuff is more expensive and they just want a slice of your wallet however they can get it.

Many public chargers are generally over run with people who claim they are absolutely desperately in need of a charge when the chargers are free, and as soon as its 2p more than charging at home they can suddenly cope. It happened wth Ecotricity when they started charging (back in the day when they worked) and they simply became deserted once it cost money. The railway station I mentioned used to be free, when they introduced a fee suddenly hardly anybody used them.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Didn't some of the supermarkets get grants to install charge points, years ago?

I seem to remember there being a push to get more of them installed, back around the time I first bought a PHEV, in 2013, and thought there was some government grant money involved.

 

[bitmanEV]

Years back when I had a first generation Zoe was almost pushed from an Ecotricity charger on the M40 by an Outlander PHEV who parked so close to me and then started looking down waiting for me to finish my charge. Found it so imitating that when having enough charge moved to the next service station (Warwick arrived with 5%) to have a 80% charge...