PM3 Nema Wiring Setup Help

[MayorMcCheese1]

Preparing the install of my Nema 14-50 charging setup before I physically begin the process of getting a PM3 which has now been pushed back to 8-10 weeks since production is beginning overseas so I have a little time but I want to show everyone the setup of what im buying and seeing if maybe what im buying is overkill. I am no electrician but I am good with electrical.

Will be using Tesla's Wall Connector Gloss Black Wall Connector for its 11.5KW setup although I have looked I considered https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SHK7XP7/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A1805L3JBRFYZK&th=1.

My setup is below and my question is and I am sure I could just google this but if Im not mistaken a 60amp breaker runs 48 max output on the wall connector but the breaker itself is rated at a max of 55amps correct? The wiring ill be using im not sure if I should be getting 6/4 gauge wiring or if i should get 4/4 gauge.. I am still determining the length I would need 50' or 100' but the price difference between them both is double. My breaker is in the basement pretty much mounted on the corner and my driveway is on the other opposite side of the box I feel comfortable with 50FT but what I am asking is do I go 4 Gauge or 6 gauge.
https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Portab...refinements=p_4:Carol&s=merchant-items&sr=1-5
https://www.amazon.com/SOOW-Cable-P...refinements=p_4:Carol&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1
Ill also include the main items of my setup.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000J15QW2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A27DQ1MYX0ZHOT&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002N7KY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

 

[ucmndd]

I suggest you keep doing some reading here as your post is all over the map.

Your parts list suggests you want to install a NEMA 14-50 outlet, but you also reference the Tesla wall connector. You don’t use both of those things - you need to choose one or the other.

If you want to use the wall connector with a 60 amp circuit and would like to use type NM cable (“romex”) like you’ve listed, you want to use “4/2” cable. You don’t need 4 conductors for a wall connector, just two and a ground.

Alternatively, you could use 6 gauge individual conductors inside conduit. But if you want NM cable, you should use 4 gauge.

If you actually want a 14-50 outlet (with which you could use the mobile connector included with your car), you need a 50 amp breaker, not 60, and you can use “6/3” romex (again, you don’t need four conductors, you need three plus a ground).

But more than anything I suggest you keep reading before you buy anything. Your post suggests a fair amount of confusion.

 

[Watts_Up]

- If you plan to buy an UMC, you don't need to get a NEMA 14-50 plug.

- Unless you want to keep your portable charger inside your trunk, because you plan to use it often for weekend tip for example,
you don't really need to buy a $500 UMC charger. You can use the provided portable charger instead.

- How far away from your main panel do you plan to put the UMC?
And how complicated and many curbs do you have?

- The type of cables you use are quite expensive.
There are nice to use on a short distance if your wall force you to make a lot of curbs within tiny space between each curb.
Otherwise it would be more economical to use a conduit and put the wires inside
or to use Romex if you can hide the wires behind the wall.

- If you plan to use an UMC charger, you don't need the neutral, which can save cost,
However, if you really want to have a plug, a neutral is needed.


May be a picture of your main panel and a picture of the location of your charger would be useful to provude additional instalation tips.

Note: If you can, try to have the plug going into your car, to be coming from above instead to have it touching the floor.
This would help when you need to access your trunk or turning around your car when your car will be plugged.

 

[Scrannel]

I just installed a 14/50 NEMA (using Romex and a 50amp breaker), the outlet is exclusively for my 3. Obviously using my Mobile Connector. Very simple install, however, my main box is contained in a dedicated "unit" which is easily accessible, so I only needed about four feet of Romex. I don't do a daily commute, but, the charge rate is high enough to supply power for that need. As others have said, do some research, you've got some time.

 

[woodguyatl]

Preparing the install of my Nema 14-50 charging setup before I physically begin the process of getting a PM3 which has now been pushed back to 8-10 weeks since production is beginning overseas so I have a little time but I want to show everyone the setup of what im buying and seeing if maybe what im buying is overkill. I am no electrician but I am good with electrical.

Will be using Tesla's Wall Connector Gloss Black Wall Connector for its 11.5KW setup although I have looked I considered https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SHK7XP7/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A1805L3JBRFYZK&th=1.

My setup is below and my question is and I am sure I could just google this but if Im not mistaken a 60amp breaker runs 48 max output on the wall connector but the breaker itself is rated at a max of 55amps correct? The wiring ill be using im not sure if I should be getting 6/4 gauge wiring or if i should get 4/4 gauge.. I am still determining the length I would need 50' or 100' but the price difference between them both is double. My breaker is in the basement pretty much mounted on the corner and my driveway is on the other opposite side of the box I feel comfortable with 50FT but what I am asking is do I go 4 Gauge or 6 gauge.
https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Portable-Power-Gauge-Conductor/dp/B0075O6KBM/ref=sr_1_5?m=A3FIR3S12FR6OS&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1571530522&refinements=p_4:Carol&s=merchant-items&sr=1-5
https://www.amazon.com/SOOW-Cable-Portable-Power-Conductor/dp/B01N5DLW2U/ref=sr_1_1?m=A3FIR3S12FR6OS&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1571530522&refinements=p_4:Carol&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1
Ill also include the main items of my setup.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000J15QW2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A27DQ1MYX0ZHOT&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002N7KY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

First and most important question. Are you installing a HPWC or are you installing a 14-50 receptacle? Right now you have listed parts for both installs. To be clear, the HPWC (the gloss black one you linked to) does not plug into anything. It is hardwired and has it’s own cable that plugs into your car. The 14-50 receptacle requires you to use the mobile charger that comes with your car to connect the receptacle to the car.

Also, the cable you linked to can not run inside a wall.

 

[MayorMcCheese1]

First let me say I felt like an idiot after I learned and realized that the HPWC and the 14-50 Outlet is one or the other for the install with one is hard wiring and the other is just a plug.

Now that I was up at 6am looking up everything getting a better idea I am much more full aware. For whether I want a HPWC or the receptacle I am leaning towards the receptacle but I want to benefit from the PM3's 48Amp charging ability and since I would be doing this one time am I able to? Can I set myself up using the plug using 4/3 wiring with a 60amp breaker and then just using the mobile connector that comes with the car and eventually maybe something will come out and id already be setup to utilize?

 

[jjrandorin]

the connector that comes with the car only charges 32amps. If you size your wire correctly you theoretically could "charge faster" if "something comes along". If that "something coming along" is the desire to charge at the maximum speed the car will take, then the "something coming along" would be you taking off the 14-50 plug, and buying a wall connector, and hardwiring it in.

If thats the desire, just do that in the first place.

 

[ajdelange]

This can get confusing because there are so many options.

With a 14-50R behind a 50 A breaker the maximum you will get is 32 amperes with a UMC. With the plug-in HPWC you can get 40 but that doesn't seem to be available anymore. With a hard wired HPWC behind a 50 A breaker the most you can get is 40 A. The most you can get with any arrangement (e.g. HPWC on a 60A circuit or HPWC on a 100 A circuit) is 48 A because that's the capacity of the car's charger. Keep in mind that 48/32 = 1.5 which means that each hour of charging at 48 A will require 1.5 hour at 32 A. As most of your charging will be done while you are asleep this usually doesn't much matter.

The only time to consider going with a circuit bigger than 50 A is if you are sure, or pretty sure, that you will be buying another Tesla at some time in the future. In that case go with a 100A circuit now. Will obviously cost more now but less in the long run.

 

[MayorMcCheese1]

It looks like the difference between the hard wired HPWC on a 60amp and a 14-50R is only 7miles (37/44) and the cost between them is mainly just Tesla's wall connector. Ok Understood there.

Now its down to what I am looking for do I want a 14-50 outlet on the side of my driveway or do I want the Tesla wall connector. I havent decided yet I need to research a little more.

Issue I am having at least online with Home Depot and Amazon is I cannot find 4/2 Wiring.

 

[destructure00]

It looks like the difference between the hard wired HPWC on a 60amp and a 14-50R is only 7miles (37/44) and the cost between them is mainly just Tesla's wall connector. Ok Understood there.

Now its down to what I am looking for do I want a 14-50 outlet on the side of my driveway or do I want the Tesla wall connector. I havent decided yet I need to research a little more.

Issue I am having at least online with Home Depot and Amazon is I cannot find 4/2 Wiring.

One other option that you could pursue with the 14-50 is to try and find a used Gen 1 UMC, which charges at 40 amps instead of the lower 32 amp limit of the Gen 2 UMC. You should be able to find one for $200 or less on the forums here if you are patient.

 

[ucmndd]

It looks like the difference between the hard wired HPWC on a 60amp and a 14-50R is only 7miles (37/44)

The most you’ll get from a 14-50 with the charging equipment included with your car is 32 amps = ~30 miles per hour on a model 3.

Issue I am having at least online with Home Depot and Amazon is I cannot find 4/2 Wiring.

If you’re wiring a 14-50, you want 6/3.

You’re right that 4/2 is a less common NM cable config, but it’s out there. Your local Home Depot might sell it by the foot.

Your other option if going the wall connector route is to use conduit, which will let you get by with 6awg conductors for a 60A setup.

 

[ajdelange]

I'd suggest downloading the installation manual from the Tesla Shop and reading about it's requirements. It would also be a good idea to obtain a copy of the NEC and read the EVSE article.

You won't be running NM to an outside outlet.

One bit of advice I always give is when pulling new 240V wiring always pull 3 conductor even if you don't need it now.

For a 50 A circuit No. 6 is OK even with wire rated 60 °C.

 

[jjrandorin]

I personally think that, given all the questions and the angle of the questions, the OP should be hiring someone to do this for him rather than doing it himself. A constant load like an EV pulls is *no joke* and one wants to be sure its done correctly.

The alternative is possible fire risk etc. I am not saying people who are qualified should not do it themselves, and I am not attempting to put this OP down. I am simply saying that the type of questions sound like OP would be better served putting efforts into sourcing someone to do this for him, instead of trying to do it himself.

 

[MayorMcCheese1]

I personally think that, given all the questions and the angle of the questions, the OP should be hiring someone to do this for him rather than doing it himself. A constant load like an EV pulls is *no joke* and one wants to be sure its done correctly.

The alternative is possible fire risk etc. I am not saying people who are qualified should not do it themselves, and I am not attempting to put this OP down. I am simply saying that the type of questions sound like OP would be better served putting efforts into sourcing someone to do this for him, instead of trying to do it himself.

The issue I guess I’m having is what to buy. I’ve actually installed my own DIY solar system for my game room/ Office .. nothing crazy but a 3.6KW system running (14) 6v batteries each 225ah all on 8awg etc I know what to do I just need to figure out what to buy.

I should also mention my best friend is an electrical engineer who will be with me when this all gets done.

I think what’s best is 14-50R use the mobile connector and keep an eye out for a first gen Tesla UMC to benefit using 40amps or go on Amazon and buy a 40amp plug in if I find a used one for cheaper then $549 no need.

why did Tesla make the 2nd gen 32amp when first gen was 40?

6/3 UF-B Wire, Underground Feeder and Direct Earth Burial Cable (50ft cut) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0785G44CK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_dulRDbFD4QZK3This’ll be the wiring I’ll be using.

 

[marknei]

Preparing the install of my Nema 14-50 charging setup before I physically begin the process of getting a PM3 which has now been pushed back to 8-10 weeks since production is beginning overseas so I have a little time but I want to show everyone the setup of what im buying and seeing if maybe what im buying is overkill. I am no electrician but I am good with electrical.

Will be using Tesla's Wall Connector Gloss Black Wall Connector for its 11.5KW setup although I have looked I considered https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SHK7XP7/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A1805L3JBRFYZK&th=1.

My setup is below and my question is and I am sure I could just google this but if Im not mistaken a 60amp breaker runs 48 max output on the wall connector but the breaker itself is rated at a max of 55amps correct? The wiring ill be using im not sure if I should be getting 6/4 gauge wiring or if i should get 4/4 gauge.. I am still determining the length I would need 50' or 100' but the price difference between them both is double. My breaker is in the basement pretty much mounted on the corner and my driveway is on the other opposite side of the box I feel comfortable with 50FT but what I am asking is do I go 4 Gauge or 6 gauge.
https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Portable-Power-Gauge-Conductor/dp/B0075O6KBM/ref=sr_1_5?m=A3FIR3S12FR6OS&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1571530522&refinements=p_4:Carol&s=merchant-items&sr=1-5
https://www.amazon.com/SOOW-Cable-Portable-Power-Conductor/dp/B01N5DLW2U/ref=sr_1_1?m=A3FIR3S12FR6OS&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1571530522&refinements=p_4:Carol&s=merchant-items&sr=1-1
Ill also include the main items of my setup.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000J15QW2/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=A27DQ1MYX0ZHOT&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00002N7KY/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

I'm not going to repeat what others have said. I am also a NJ resident, and you need a permit (meaning an electrician) to do the job. I had my 14-50 setup installed (including cost of parts) for $400. That was a reasonable price to me. Without a permit, you could run into problems down the road come house sale time, or if there is an electrical problem that involves your insurance company.

Good luck,

 

[ajdelange]

why did Tesla make the 2nd gen 32amp when first gen was 40?

We don't know but my theory is that legal told them to. The code allows installation of a 14-50R receptacle on a 40 A or 50 A circuit. A Gen 1 adapter draws 40 A. As EVSE is considered a continuous load, only 32 A is permitted on a 40 A circuit and a Gen 1 adapter would violate code. The lawyers probably feared that Tesla could be held responsible in the event of a loss involving a Gen 1 adapter on a 40 A circuit..

 

[Runt8]

I'm not going to repeat what others have said. I am also a NJ resident, and you need a permit (meaning an electrician) to do the job. I had my 14-50 setup installed (including cost of parts) for $400. That was a reasonable price to me. Without a permit, you could run into problems down the road come house sale time, or if there is an electrical problem that involves your insurance company.

Good luck,

Does NJ not allow homeowners to pull permits?

 

[davewill]

...
Now its down to what I am looking for do I want a 14-50 outlet on the side of my driveway or do I want the Tesla wall connector. ...

I'm going to suggest that if it's going to be outside, you go ahead and do the wall connector. The mobile connector is not as weatherproof, and would require some protection from the elements.

 

[marknei]

Does NJ not allow homeowners to pull permits?

I can tell you what I know. My town uses the "New Jersey Uniform Construction Code" permit application. (And to be 100% open, I just found this... Had I known about it, I probably would have done the work myself.)
On pg 2, there is a section that states:
1 C. "I further certify that I will perform or supervise the following work:" C.3. ( ) Electrical

There is a required inspection at the completion of the work. I can not tell you if the inspector does a more thorough inspection when C3 is checked off.

 

[Runt8]

I can tell you what I know. My town uses the "New Jersey Uniform Construction Code" permit application. (And to be 100% open, I just found this... Had I known about it, I probably would have done the work myself.)
On pg 2, there is a section that states:
1 C. "I further certify that I will perform or supervise the following work:" C.3. ( ) Electrical

There is a required inspection at the completion of the work. I can not tell you if the inspector does a more thorough inspection when C3 is checked off.

Sounds similar to my county in CO - a homeowner is allowed to do electrical work on their own property but they are required to pull permits and get the work inspected. Only master electricians are allowed to pull permits on someone else’s property.