Poll: let's build the Robotaxi

[Buckminster]

Terminology:
First gen 3 car - Model 2 (M2) hatchback (Elon was convinced this was needed)
Second gen 3 car - Robotaxi

This poll references the robotaxi. I think it is likely that the gen 3 platform will be designed with Robotaxi in mind. I will likely run a similar M2 poll following this one.

Checkout this poll (about to close) where the majority have selected that the exterior will be made of traditional stamped and painted steel / aluminium.

From the biography:

TMC thread:
Tesla Robotaxi (Gen 3)

I have left out some of the more likely options such as 4 seats. If people don't choose 2 or 3 then it can be assumed to be 4.

Unlimited votes but don't vote on 2 and 3 seats....
You can change your votes.
Closes in 25 days
Public voting

 

[fholbert]

Step 1: Get full self driving to work.

 

[Buckminster]

Step 1: Get full self driving to work.

That's the Christmas spirit!

 

[Buckminster]

In order to avoid billionaire door syndrome, I had a thought recently of maybe doing something similar to the side doors on a minivan. That way they can still open in a small space, and possibly even be longer than you'd normally expect for a small car (i.e. if there's a larger frunk and no trunk, just 2 rows of seats, and a single long door each side). Would probably need some interesting geometry for where the sliding rails go, but probably cheaper than any other non-traditional doors, and avoids the annoying long door problem for a 2-door 4-seater.

Sounds like a difficult packaging problem for anything but a van.

 

[Buckminster]

Robotaxi is to displace the daily driver. Observing HOV lanes we see that 90% of vehicles on our city highways carry only one passenger at a time. When is the last time you sat in the front seat of a taxi? With driver removed, there is no need for a front seat, nor four doors. I'm convinced the first Robotaxi will be a two door hatchback, ride height of a Model Y for comfort and ease of entry/exit, something like the crude cut/paste image below. If folded unpainted stainless steels panels are less expensive than painted stamped steel, they will be incorporated into a more angled design as above (minus those funky impractical doors).

View attachment 1003434

But Tesla won't stop there. For the remaining 10% of rides required with family in tow, a four or six seater + room for luggage Robotaxi shuttle van will be available. But Tesla will tackle the far larger single (or double) passenger Robotaxi market first. It is all about scale, efficiencies and keeping costs down.

Elon looking back on the X... I believe other comments at the time talked about the Falcon Wing doors as being much of it:


So not sure they'd do that again on the compact model... or if they feel they've figured them out enough that they aren't a "new feature"... I suspect more traditional doors.

 

[karlos22]

My idea was that it would have 4 seats that could isolate into pods via a sliding opaque glass window. They could face each other and be arranged somewhat like business class seats but on a smaller scale. This way you can share a taxi with strangers (cheaper, like Uber carpool) or ride solo/with friends etc. it gives you the option for total privacy if desired.

Is it feasible? No idea.

 

[EbS-P]

Voted.
Missing the from options are
sliding doors.
6 seats
symmetric front and rear


This is all about cost per passenger per km. Only to be deployed in urban settings. To many options given are not radical enough and adhere to concepts of what cars have been.

 

[Buckminster]

Voted.
Missing the from options are
sliding doors.
6 seats
symmetric front and rear


This is all about cost per passenger per km. Only to be deployed in urban settings. To many options given are not radical enough and adhere to concepts of what cars have been.

I like your style and agree with the statement. Which idiot set this poll up anyway?

Specifically however, sliding doors - I don't see how they work on a smaller vehicle. 6 seats is a good one although I prefer smaller again. Symmetric would likely go with facing seats - that doesn't appear popular with the voters as most are going for forward facing only.

I will go through my thinking. Nothing so far has changed my mind:

No frunk because I think it will be too small and passengers won't mess around with two places to store things.
Trunk because it adds more storage for the same footprint as a frunk and Elon won't want passenger heads2 inches from the rear. However, it would save money to not have the trunk opening and folk with large bags can request a larger vehicle.
4 wheels and 4 seats because I think that will have commonality with a 5 seater M2. Maybe they do a 2 seater down the road when safety has improved.
2 doors - I think Tesla will manage this somehow. Maybe Falcon, maybe sliding seats, maybe facing seats.
Multiple castings because unboxed.
30kWh battery because this has to be small.

 

[EVNow]

At this point - it might as well be a unicorn with wings ...

 

[rlsd]

At this point - it might as well be a unicorn with wings ...

Yes, no wheels and can fly for me

 

[Buckminster]

Yes, no wheels and can fly for me

We have threads for that:
Tesla VR / AR For the unicorn bit...

VTOL Supersonic aircraft

Electric planes

 

[DrChaos]

Sounds like a difficult packaging problem for anything but a van.

Agree. A robotaxi needs reliable autoclosable doors that a human driven one does not, because passengers may leave the car and not bother to close the doors. And a slider works better here, like the Canoo taxis which are mini/micro vans, the optimal shape for a robotaxi. One wouldn't even want a trunk, instead a low floor and a secured area to store luggage inside the main, and only cabin. Also for security, the operator would want everything including luggage to be in a visible illuminated camera-recorded space.

This is contrary to the goals of a inexpensive human driven car which can be more conventional. So I don't think much of the Model 2 for humans would carry over to a robotaxi.

Similarly a robotaxi has to deal with more problems like self cleaning sensors as well.

 

[Daniel in SD]

SLIDING DOORS!
This, but more cyber:

 

[EatsShoots]

Step 1: Get full self driving to work.

True story: I have a morbidly obese sibling who we've been nagging to get in shape. He finally went for a walk three months ago. I told him after it that my other sibling and I would love to go on a multi-day hike with him if he got in shape. After that single walk he was trying to get us to commit to dates for the hike.

In the months since he's gone for as many walks as Tesla has had full self driving trips without disengagements.

 

[JupiterMan]

SLIDING DOORS!
This, but more cyber:

A robotaxi needs reliable autoclosable doors that a human driven one does not, because passengers may leave the car and not bother to close the doors.

Agree with @DrChaos - Unless the RoboTaxi can close the doors itself then it would be effectively stranded if doors are left open by exiting passengers.

This gives options of either:

1) some kind of motorised door closing (and maybe also opening), or
2) using gravity as an aid to close the doors.

Its interesting that the biography sketch (I think) shows the latter, which would also fit in with making the car easier to build and operate - i.e. less moving parts

Sliding doors will be more expensive, less reliable and need more safety features.

I very much doubt a falcon wing door, but something that can be opened upwards and closed with gravity assistance would be a Tesla like solution I think, so that part of the biography sketch maybe accurate.....

 

[Daniel in SD]

Sliding doors will be more expensive, less reliable and need more safety features.

Every minivan has powered sliding doors. They’re fine.
Every dedicated robotaxi prototype I’ve seen has powered sliding doors (Waymo, Cruise, Zoox). Just slap some stainless steel panels on it and call it a day.
Falcon wing would be fine too but I doubt it would be any cheaper or more reliable.

 

[DrChaos]

I very much doubt a falcon wing door, but something that can be opened upwards and closed with gravity assistance would be a Tesla like solution I think, so that part of the biography sketch maybe accurate.....

Anything that opens upward stands the chance of someone hitting their head while exiting or entering and lawsuits from there and the lawyers will argue that basic sliders work and every other robotaxi has them.

 

[Buckminster]

So 2 or 3 seats has equal votes to 4+. A third seat could be rear facing or in a row of three. Or even set forward like in a Maclaren P1! I voted for 4 seats because of commonality and size with M2. Maybe Elon allowed Isaacson to post the concept in open sight.

 

[EatsShoots]

Every minivan has powered sliding doors. They’re fine.
Every dedicated robotaxi prototype I’ve seen has powered sliding doors (Waymo, Cruise, Zoox). Just slap some stainless steel panels on it and call it a day.
Falcon wing would be fine too but I doubt it would be any cheaper or more reliable.

Sliding doors are a totally complete technology. I agree they are very reliable, very safe (they won't close if put against a significant force), and also alleviate the odds of hitting things beyond 6-8 inches from the car. I am convinced the only reason we don't use them more is because people have insecurities about driving "minivans". They are fantastic in actual use.