Poor Model Y Tesla Vison Experience

[Lordswine]

Hello Everyone and thank you for all of your responses ahead of time.

I recently bought a 2023 Model Y (owned it only two weeks at the time of this post and never owned a Tesla before) with "Tesla Vision" and I am very disappointed in the Autopilot (not even talking about FSD). For example today the car today was so close to rear-ending the car in front of me that my new seats have pucker marks! it lunges and breaks and stops before signs and lights. It is stressful to even drive the car with Autopilot. I bought the car to remove some of the stress of driving and now I feel cheated. I am messing around with FSD but I expect it to be buggy because it is in Beata and I knew that going in. But for the car to just drive this crappy with Autopilot is very disappointing, to say the least.

My point here is not to rant but to ask around if anyone else suffering from this Tesla Vison crappiness. I honestly would bring the car back and wait for it to work better at a later date if I could. Is there any hope or news or was Tesla Vison one BIG FAT mistake from Tesla?

Seriously Disappointed Tesla customer.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Just checking - are you attempting to use Auto-Pilot for city-street driving?

 

[Lordswine]

No, I am just using, Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (TACC) on surface streets I am not using both TACC + Automatic Steering when these things happened. Just on busy 2 or 3-lane surface roads. FSD tried to run me off the road today on a freeway merge but that FSD beta.

 

[Mr. Michael]

Looks like maybe you purchased the Full Disappointment Package. Many of us did. It is very stressfull. Good for the environment, bad for your health. Keep your expectations low.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

No, I am just using, Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (TACC) on surface streets I am not using both TACC + Automatic Steering when these things happened. Just on busy 2 or 3-lane surface roads. FSD tried to run me off the road today on a freeway merge but that FSD beta.

As hinted by the name "Traffic Aware Cruise Control", that thing is not really designed for city streets - it's not trained for stoplights, stopsigns, cross traffic is any of that - it just follows the car in front of you and/or cruise speed, which it does fairly well on properly marked highways

 

[jjrandorin]

No, I am just using, Traffic-Aware Cruise Control (TACC) on surface streets

Since it appears you joined TMC to create this "trying to kill me" thread, perhaps you might want to take a look at the model Y manual, and the specific feature you are using (traffic aware cruise control)

Model Y Owner's Manual | Tesla

Learn about Traffic-Aware Cruise Control and its specifications.

www.tesla.com

 

[240vPlug]

Yes, it seems to me there is some confusion between TACC, NOAP, and FSD Beta.

As mentioned TACC is not that smart and will only adjust speed based on the car in front. On the highway your not using FSD Beta, at least not at the time of this writing. Highway driving uses the non-fsd beta stack .

You need to read up on the AP and the TACC as well as navigate on autopilot. It's a lot to learn and it's only been two weeks. The first month or two autopilot was horrible for me with phantom braking etc. It gradually got better. It's A LOT to learn and. It's not as simple as the media makes it out to be. If you don't have a thorough understanding of it then frustration levels will go through the roof.

BTW it's never been good with cars merging into the highway. I like to slow down and allow them to merge if reasonable and safe. AP most of the time will completely ignore the driver attempting to merge until they enter the lane. Still a long way to go but I assure you Tesla is not trying to kill you. After all if your dead you can't buy another Tesla.

 

[Krash]

(Moderator note: I toned down the title.)

 

[BitJam]

My point here is not to rant but to ask around if anyone else suffering from this Tesla Vision crappiness. I honestly would bring the car back and wait for it to work better at a later date if I could. Is there any hope or news or was Tesla Vision one BIG FAT mistake from Tesla?

Here in rural New Mexico I use AP for about 80% of my driving. I find it to be a huge help. Once about a year ago it did seem to try to drive right into another car as I was going through an intersection. I also had some annoying phantom braking but haven't had any for many months. In the meantime Autopilot avoided an accident and saved the life of a young deer that ran in front of my car. Overall, I've had many more close calls initiated by other drivers such as speeding through a red light or trying to merge into my car without seeing me, etc. I've never had a problem with it almost running into a car in my lane directly in front of me.

It took me a lot more than two weeks to figure out how to use Autopilot well. It took a while to learn to use one pedal driving well. I needed experience with it to build up my intuition. I've also learned the few places around town where AP will often do something silly. This is usually due to poorly marked lanes.

Autopilot is probably my favorite feature (out of many great features in the car). For me it makes driving easier, safer, and less stressful. My biggest complaint with AP is I wish it would allow me to set a much larger follow distance. I can't imagine buying a car now that doesn't have Autopilot.

BTW: Autopilot does not stop for stop signs or red lights. If your car is braking and lunging before traffic lights then either something is horribly wrong with it or you were using FSD.

 

[Jerrboyy]

If you don't have a thorough understanding of it then frustration levels will go through the roof.

Like 240v said, you need to understand the limitations of Autopilot. First, I recommend reading the Model Y owner's manual "Autopilot" section here. This may eliminate some misconceptions about autopilot after reading.

Basically, the basic autopilot (TACC + autosteer) will match the speed of the car in your lane in front of you, up to your MAX speed and will keep you centered in the lane it has detected, indicated by two blue lines.

Basic Autopilot will NOT stop for red traffic lights, or stop signs. If you are experiencing hard braking, try increasing your follow distance, I prefer 6 car length while on the highway. Phantom braking may also cause your vehicle to slow/stop for objects it thinks are vehicles in your lane. I experienced a hard phantom emergency braking accident while AP was disengaged from the reflection of a semi truck, here is what it looked like. In my experience, phantom braking is reduced to almost 0 when you are driving in a well populated highway. In contrast, empty one lane roads have tricked AP from the "mirage effect" that makes the horizon of a perfectly straight road look wet and will flip the reflection of any object above that reflection making it appear closer to AP.

Knowing these limitations makes your driving experience improve however, for you will be able to know exactly when AP is about to have trouble with something and to proactively disengage. I too was frustrated with AP at first. But now, about 80% of my driving is with basic AP engaged, and knowing its limitations had made me a safer and more relaxed driver as a result.

 

[Lordswine]

Here in rural New Mexico I use AP for about 80% of my driving. I find it to be a huge help. Once about a year ago it did seem to try to drive right into another car as I was going through an intersection. I also had some annoying phantom braking but haven't had any for many months. In the meantime Autopilot avoided an accident and saved the life of a young deer that ran in front of my car. Overall, I've had many more close calls initiated by other drivers such as speeding through a red light or trying to merge into my car without seeing me, etc. I've never had a problem with it almost running into a car in my lane directly in front of me.

It took me a lot more than two weeks to figure out how to use Autopilot well. It took a while to learn to use one pedal driving well. I needed experience with it to build up my intuition. I've also learned the few places around town where AP will often do something silly. This is usually due to poorly marked lanes.

Autopilot is probably my favorite feature (out of many great features in the car). For me it makes driving easier, safer, and less stressful. My biggest complaint with AP is I wish it would allow me to set a much larger follow distance. I can't imagine buying a car now that doesn't have Autopilot.

BTW: Autopilot does not stop for stop signs or red lights. If your car is braking and lunging before traffic lights then either something is horribly wrong with it or you were using FSD.

Thank you for your detailed response I appreciate it.

 

[Lordswine]

Here in rural New Mexico I use AP for about 80% of my driving. I find it to be a huge help. Once about a year ago it did seem to try to drive right into another car as I was going through an intersection. I also had some annoying phantom braking but haven't had any for many months. In the meantime Autopilot avoided an accident and saved the life of a young deer that ran in front of my car. Overall, I've had many more close calls initiated by other drivers such as speeding through a red light or trying to merge into my car without seeing me, etc. I've never had a problem with it almost running into a car in my lane directly in front of me.

It took me a lot more than two weeks to figure out how to use Autopilot well. It took a while to learn to use one pedal driving well. I needed experience with it to build up my intuition. I've also learned the few places around town where AP will often do something silly. This is usually due to poorly marked lanes.

Autopilot is probably my favorite feature (out of many great features in the car). For me it makes driving easier, safer, and less stressful. My biggest complaint with AP is I wish it would allow me to set a much larger follow distance. I can't imagine buying a car now that doesn't have Autopilot.

BTW: Autopilot does not stop for stop signs or red lights. If your car is braking and lunging before traffic lights then either something is horribly wrong with it or you were using FSD.

Thanks I appreciate it, I do have FSD it gives me the option to allow the car to stop at lights and signs.When not imputing a route and activating autopilot with FSD installed it stays in the lane and stops at all signals.

 

[Lordswine]

Like 240v said, you need to understand the limitations of Autopilot. First, I recommend reading the Model Y owner's manual "Autopilot" section here. This may eliminate some misconceptions about autopilot after reading.

Basically, the basic autopilot (TACC + autosteer) will match the speed of the car in your lane in front of you, up to your MAX speed and will keep you centered in the lane it has detected, indicated by two blue lines.

Basic Autopilot will NOT stop for red traffic lights, or stop signs. If you are experiencing hard braking, try increasing your follow distance, I prefer 6 car length while on the highway. Phantom braking may also cause your vehicle to slow/stop for objects it thinks are vehicles in your lane. I experienced a hard phantom emergency braking accident while AP was disengaged from the reflection of a semi truck, here is what it looked like. In my experience, phantom braking is reduced to almost 0 when you are driving in a well populated highway. In contrast, empty one lane roads have tricked AP from the "mirage effect" that makes the horizon of a perfectly straight road look wet and will flip the reflection of any object above that reflection making it appear closer to AP.

Knowing these limitations makes your driving experience improve however, for you will be able to know exactly when AP is about to have trouble with something and to proactively disengage. I too was frustrated with AP at first. But now, about 80% of my driving is with basic AP engaged, and knowing its limitations had made me a safer and more relaxed driver as a result.

Thank you, I am trying different settings I appreciate your answer, unlike a few others. Anyway, it's a mute point now. I will just gimp along until the technology get better because the car is so much fun to drive (old fashioned way) I will just enjoy it for what it is.

 

[ZenRockGarden]

Seriously Krash, what is wrong with the title? Why are you changing my title what rules did I break or do you just dislike the freedom of speech? Maybe change your username because it is a little harsh, ya know insinuating a crash on a car forum.....

It's their board, their rules, and they prefer informative vs inflamatory posts. You didn't get banned or anything, they just tweaked your title to bend it in the direction of reasoned conversation.

I've had a couple posts dumped for "excessive snippiness" - it can happen to any of us, and I actually rather respect the moderators effort to keep it civil around here, which is unusual on the internet.

 

[Twiglett]

Seriously Krash, what is wrong with the title? Why are you changing my title what rules did I break or do you just dislike the freedom of speech? Maybe change your username because it is a little harsh, ya know insinuating a crash on a car forum.....

you mean "my car tried to kill me" didn't seem overly dramatic from the outset?
btw- sorry for the long post...

So much of what happens with complex systems is based on understanding, especially on forums. Much of how people interpret what you type is based on their understanding, not yours. So when you interchangably use names for two different systems, it makes it hard to understand the point.

To help things along, terms are important to help exchange of ideas and issues by having a common frame of reference.
Why is Tesla Vision important - if you've never driven a "pre vision" car its very difficult to quantify. If you haven't then its not Tesla Vision, its just normal autopilot. (the difference if it matters is lack of radar)
Autopilot is the basic highway keep in lane, don't run into the car in front. Every Tesla has it.
Basic FSD adds highway lane change, take highway junction exits, overtaking etc You pay money for that.
People will refer you to the handbook because it tells you the limitations of each system right up front, as does the onscreen warnings that people click through without reading.
FSD Beta is when you choose the next notch up and really get to hold onto your hat. That is FSD on city streets which really is don't try this at home beta It also has dire warnings that most people never read.
Most of it is down to expectation. If you expect a car to drive itself then you have to wait a bunch of years. If you expect the car to help make long journeys easier, then Autopilot is there for you (on highways)
After that it takes while to really mellow into how the car does things and you learn what its good at and when to just disengage and do it yourself.

In the end quite a lot is pretty good, some of it is appalling and shouldn't be touched with a really long stick.
But when you're used to it, autopilot really will make long journeys better. FSDbeta is mostly ok with some really, really stupid stuff in there.
Good luck and welcome to Tesla ownership, most of the time you will love it

 

[Apollo17]

Yes, it seems to me there is some confusion between TACC, NOAP, and FSD Beta.

As mentioned TACC is not that smart and will only adjust speed based on the car in front. On the highway your not using FSD Beta, at least not at the time of this writing. Highway driving uses the non-fsd beta stack .

You need to read up on the AP and the TACC as well as navigate on autopilot. It's a lot to learn and it's only been two weeks. The first month or two autopilot was horrible for me with phantom braking etc. It gradually got better. It's A LOT to learn and. It's not as simple as the media makes it out to be. If you don't have a thorough understanding of it then frustration levels will go through the roof.

BTW it's never been good with cars merging into the highway. I like to slow down and allow them to merge if reasonable and safe. AP most of the time will completely ignore the driver attempting to merge until they enter the lane. Still a long way to go but I assure you Tesla is not trying to kill you. After all if your dead you can't buy another Tesla.

You are absolutely right. I also had anxiety the first couple of weeks, and then as my experience level went up, and learned how the car and controls feel, and how it responds, things got a lot better. In fact, I cannot remember the last time I got the blue flashes warning me to hold the steering wheel - I learned that by keeping a relaxed but firm grip on the lower part of the wheel, resting my elbow, the Autopilot was continuous and reliable on well-marked highways. I already knew it wasn't designed for city streets and intersections, so I have been careful not to push the system too hard. Now I am almost two months into ownership, and I love Autopilot. Period.

 

[Sambub]

While driving on freeway today, autopilot on, a car just in front of me in left lane put on its turn signal to come into my lane. My Y which was going to be moving past him slowed down for a moment I think to allow the car to come over. The car didn’t end up coming over so Y accelerated to resume set speed and passed him.

I assume the Y saw his turn signal and acted accordingly. I was very impressed!

 

[Lordswine]

While driving on freeway today, autopilot on, a car just in front of me in left lane put on its turn signal to come into my lane. My Y which was going to be moving past him slowed down for a moment I think to allow the car to come over. The car didn’t end up coming over so Y accelerated to resume set speed and passed him.

I assume the Y saw his turn signal and acted accordingly. I was very impressed!

Nice, it's going to get there I guess.

 

[Lordswine]

So do you all see the move to a camera based system a good thing or bad. Of course, based off of the opinion of those who have driven both? I can see that certain features are not available with the camera based system as of now. I'm assuming that's because the software has not caught up with a camera or it's capabilities? I hope purchasing a Tesla with Tesla vision is not going to be a regret down the road. Anyway, thank you guys for your input.

 

[BitJam]

So do you all see the move to a camera based system a good thing or bad.

This should be its own thread. Such threads probably already exist.

IMO for anyone to make FSD work they need to solve the vision problem. This is the hard part. Once vision is solved, everything else is relatively easy. Video games can easily navigate cars through known environments. Therefore it makes sense to me for Tesla to concentrate on vision now even if eventually they add other senses to improve performance when vision is limited.

Tesla is counting on using artificial intelligence (neural nets) to solve the vision problem. The bottleneck is not software, it's training. They've built the world's biggest AI supercomputer to do the training based on information they get back from the fleet of Tesla cars. The plan/hope is that as FSD beta is released to more and more people, Tesla will get more input from those cars for training to help accelerate how quickly the system improves. For this to work we know that mind-boggling massive amounts of training data is needed. But no one knows for sure if this will be sufficient. Maybe we would also need hardware in the cars that's 10x or 100x more powerful.

As I've said before, I use basic Autopilot for about 80% of my driving here in rural New Mexico. For me it makes driving easier, safer, and less stressful. But there is a learning curve. You need to let go of your expectations and learn what it can and cannot do. If you're worried about regrets then get to know basic AP first before you put down any money for EAP or FSD.