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Potential New EV Tax Credit for 2021

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Its free to anyone that wants it but it is being paid by my, their, your taxes so...was it really "free"?

It's free to anyone that wants it. THAT'S the point. Even when the cost is $0 ignorance can stand in the way.

Not making any point about tax costs. Point is that even with a cost of $0 to get the shot ~50% of people STILL aren't getting it because of ignorance. Point is that 'good' isn't enough. That's the point. That's it. This idea that 'good' is enough is pathetically naive at least in the 'Age of Stupid'. That's the point. That's it.
 
It's free to anyone that wants it. THAT'S the point. Even when the cost is $0 ignorance can stand in the way.

Not making any point about tax costs. Point is that even with a cost of $0 to get the shot ~50% of people STILL aren't getting it because of ignorance. Point is that 'good' isn't enough. That's the point. That's it.

Ok. That's all I'm talking about...tax costs.
 
Ok. That's all I'm talking about...tax costs.

Should it have not been subsidized? Take a $500B hit to the economy instead of spending $10B subsidizing it to provide vaccinations for free?

Why should EVs be any different? Why incur long term damage from climate change when you can avoid some costs by accelerating our independence from fools fuel by subsidizing EVs?

At some point the external costs more than justify subsidies and/or mandates.
 
Should it have not been subsidized? Take a $500B hit to the economy instead of spending $10B subsidizing it to provide vaccinations for free?

Why should EVs be any different? Why incur long term damage from climate change when you can avoid some costs by accelerating our independence from fools fuel by subsidizing EVs?

At some point the external costs more than justify subsidies and/or mandates.

Look I own a Tesla so I agree. I bought the Tesla for a commute car b/c it saves me money and time. HOV, Free PeachPass Lane, less "fuel" cost...but we should have stayed energy independent and this $4-5 a gallon was self imposed by US! I have 3 ICE vehicles along with the Tesla as do most of the country still drives ICE...if you believe the internet(s).

What percentage of cars are electric in 2021?

Anyway, the market share has improved from 1.5% a year ago to 2.5% in H1 2021 (up from 2.3% in the first four months of 2021, 1.8% in 2020 and 1.4% in 2019), which means that one in 40 new cars registered was all-electric. Similar data wad reported Cox Automotive and Kelley Blue Book.


Thats a small % to be subsidized by everyone's taxes.
 
Look I own a Tesla so I agree. I bought the Tesla for a commute car b/c it saves me money and time. HOV, Free PeachPass Lane, less "fuel" cost...but we should have stayed energy independent and this $4-5 a gallon was self imposed by US! I have 3 ICE vehicles along with the Tesla as do most of the country still drives ICE...if you believe the internet(s).

What percentage of cars are electric in 2021?

Anyway, the market share has improved from 1.5% a year ago to 2.5% in H1 2021 (up from 2.3% in the first four months of 2021, 1.8% in 2020 and 1.4% in 2019), which means that one in 40 new cars registered was all-electric. Similar data wad reported Cox Automotive and Kelley Blue Book.


Thats a small % to be subsidized by everyone's taxes.

So to be clear some products SHOULD be subsidized?
 
Tesla has proven that it does not need handouts from the Gov to succeed. It's easy for the gov to keep printing money and drive up inflation and burden our children with a debt in the trillions that will be impossible to pay back. Is that fair to them because of the selfishness of some folks today. If a product is of good quality and is what the people want, then it will be successful and Tesla is one of those products.
 
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Tesla has proven that it does not need handouts from the Gov to succeed. It's easy for the gov to keep printing money and drive up inflation and burden our children with a debt in the trillions that will be impossible to pay back. Is that fair to them because of the selfishness of some folks today. If a product is of good quality and is what the people want, then it will be successful and Tesla is one of those products.

Success isn't the goal. Elimination of our addiction to fools fuel is. Is military funding also unwanted? Why is it ok to defend our country against the ravages of an aggressive nation but somehow not ok to defend it against physics? Why not treat CO2 >400ppm with the same urgency we treated Imperial Japan and the 3rd Reich 80 years ago?
 
The most important job of the federal gov. is to protect and defend the constitution of the United States and this republic of ours. The gov. does not subside the military no more than it subsidizes the judicial, executive branches or the congress. This is spelled out in the constitution and is nothing like giving away free money to make a product sell. Throwing money at something does not solve anything. Look at Europe, they are in an energy crises and one issue for them was caused by no wind to drive the windmills so now they are begging for more coal and oil products to heat their homes. Also China, the largest producer of green house gasses is burning more coal than ever and the US is cleaner today than in the past. Have a brother that lives by San Francisco and when on the phone with him a few months ago his power went out and he said it is part of the regular brown outs and the news down there was asking folks to please not charge their RV's. What good is it to go all EV's if there is not the power available to keep all of them charged. This is like putting the cart before the horse. I am lucky to live in a state where the majority of our power is hydroelectric, one nuclear plant, and one nat gas plant as a backup. But what about the majority of the country where the power is generated using hydrocarbons to charge all the EV's?
 
The most important job of the federal gov. is to protect and defend the constitution of the United States and this republic of ours. The gov. does not subside the military no more than it subsidizes the judicial, executive branches or the congress. This is spelled out in the constitution and is nothing like giving away free money to make a product sell. Throwing money at something does not solve anything. Look at Europe, they are in an energy crises and one issue for them was caused by no wind to drive the windmills so now they are begging for more coal and oil products to heat their homes. Also China, the largest producer of green house gasses is burning more coal than ever and the US is cleaner today than in the past. Have a brother that lives by San Francisco and when on the phone with him a few months ago his power went out and he said it is part of the regular brown outs and the news down there was asking folks to please not charge their RV's. What good is it to go all EV's if there is not the power available to keep all of them charged. This is like putting the cart before the horse. I am lucky to live in a state where the majority of our power is hydroelectric, one nuclear plant, and one nat gas plant as a backup. But what about the majority of the country where the power is generated using hydrocarbons to charge all the EV's?

Every MWh they produced from wind was one less MWh from coal and one less ton of CO2 in the atmosphere because Math. We hadn't even discovered IR light in 1776.... don't you think we need to take what we've learned of how the world works since then and apply it to our behavior?

We're already adding wind and solar ~20x faster than EVs so that's a silly argument.... but I'm pretty sure you know that. Beyond that even wind and solar curtailment is growing faster than increased demand from EVs....
 
I'm not against wind and solar at all. The most efficient and clean source of power is nuclear, but heaven forbid we even talk about this. Yes there was an accident in Ukraine, but it was poorly built, poorly designed, and poorly run. Yes there are risks in everything we do like many birds being killed flying into windmills, but as you said, we have learned a lot sense the first plant went on line and the new plants are much more safer. In fact a European company has designed a small plant that can be installed in series or stand alone for say, a manufacturing plant, and it is so safe that it has been proven to not be able to run away under any condition. This is the kind of thinking that will solve global warming, not the gov just throwing money around which has never been proven to be effective. Everything the gov. touches is poorly run without throwing money at it. If UPS and FedEx can deliver parcels and make money doing it, why can't the post office do the same, same with Amtrack. Regarding the spent fuel rods, it was suggested that they could be loaded into a capsule and sent into deep space and do this cost effectively, but some idiot said we cant be polluting space with radioactive waste. But space is very radioactive, so radioactive that this is the biggest issue Musk faces if we are to send folks to Mars.
 
The most efficient and clean source of power is nuclear, but heaven forbid we even talk about this.

??? What happened to 'no product should be subsidized'? Nuclear was born from subsidies and no nuclear plant has ever been built without MASSIVE government subsidies. Without subsidies there's a ~100% chance there would be 0 nuclear plants in the world.
 
You don't seen to understand, I agree with the majority of what you are saying and yes, the gov subsidized a lot of things, but it is time to stop for the sake of our country and kids. But we have different views on how to get there, you want the gov to give away free money and I want creative minds in the private sector to get there. Here is an example, for years Nasa sent rockets and the shuttle into space and the booster rockets were wasted by having them falling into the ocean after each use. They didn't have the desire to figure out how to not waste them because they had unlimited funds from the gov. and they weren't able to keep the best minds due to the fact that places like SpaceX paid them more. Then Musk came along and in a very few years figured out how to reuse them. Also Billionaire Bill Gates' advanced nuclear reactor company TerraPower LLC and PacifiCorp have selected Wyoming to launch the first Natrium reactor power project on the site of a retiring coal plant and he is doing this without gov money. It is folks like Musk who has been very successful with Tesla, SpaceX, and his boring company, and folks like Gates who will figure out how to solve climate change, not the gov. It has been enjoyable and interesting talking with you and I appreciate your views and also you listing to mine. It is refreshing to discuss something with someone with different views without them getting upset. I wish more folks could do this in our world today. I think we understand each other and time to put this to rest and get back to the Tesla topic. By the way, which Tesla do you drive? We have a 2016 Model X P90DL. Later