Potential New EV Tax Credit for 2021

[Fairchild]

Not looking good. A shot in the foot.

Congressional Democrats are talking about applying means-testing to a critical climate idea: tax breaks for the purchase of electric vehicles (EVs). Today, most electric vehicles are prohibitively expensive, and consumers can only claw that up-front money back over time with existing tax credits, and reduced fuel and maintenance costs.

But it looks like moderates hoping to decrease the price tag of the reconciliation package are set to gut this provision by imposing more stringent income thresholds for EV subsidies, lowering the income cutoff from $400,000 to $100,000. (Well, that should cut out about 50% of the EV purchases). A lot remains undetermined until the final bill is passed.

More EV subsidies are needed to compensate for the mess the subsidized fossil fuel industry got us into. Where was the means testing for the huge tax breaks?

 

[Mark J]

I bought a very nice new looking Tesla Model X for $60,000.00 with 41,000 miles on it. Have the window sticker and the previous owner paid just under $153,000.00 for it. I sold a paid off VW Passat for $20,000.00 which left me owing $40,000.00 on the Tesla. So did I buy the Tesla to save money, no I didn't. I could have bought a lot of fuel for the $40,000.00, but this is not reason I bought it. I bought it to stop buying fuel for 90% of our running around each day and we have only had to buy diesel for my pickup once sense July Nice! So when a person pays this much for any vehicle, they aren't buying it to save money. But would I do it again, yes I would. We love the Tesla and recommend them to everyone we meet. Also I live in a state where 99% of our energy is clean hydro power and one nucellar plant, not like so many areas where their energy is produced using hydrocarbons, so is owning a EV in these areas really cleaner. Don't know, just asking. Also places like California pushing all electric by a certain date without doing anything about their lack of infrastructure and the power shortages they already have is crazy. Have a brother who lives just east of San Francisco and was on the phone with him this summer and the power goes out there. He said it is a regular brown out and on the same day he said it was on the news asking people to please not charge their EV's due to the power shortage. I agree we need to do all we can to reduce pollution, but this is like putting the cart before the hoarse and I am afraid that if the power is not there when they go all electric, the whole thing will fail and turn folks off to EV"s. The state needs to be smart about this so it does not fail.

 

[Fairchild]

YES!

$12,500 electric vehicle incentive survives Biden’s updated ‘Build Back Better’ proposal​

$12,500 electric vehicle incentive survives Biden's updated 'Build Back Better' proposal

The reform to the federal electric vehicle incentive program, which includes an increased $12,500 EV incentive, has survived President Biden’s...

flip.it

GO Joe!

 

[SpicyPaneer]

YES!

$12,500 electric vehicle incentive survives Biden’s updated ‘Build Back Better’ proposal​

$12,500 electric vehicle incentive survives Biden's updated 'Build Back Better' proposal

The reform to the federal electric vehicle incentive program, which includes an increased $12,500 EV incentive, has survived President Biden’s...

flip.it

GO Joe!

Go Where, back to sleep? Tesla is not invited to the party.. the big rebates only apply to union built vehicles in the USA ( GM & Ford ) only.

 

[Mengy]

Go Where, back to sleep? Tesla is not invited to the party.. the big rebates only apply to union built vehicles in the USA ( GM & Ford ) only.

It does really suck how the US government has bent a knee to the UAW. Still $8000 off of new Tesla's sold is nice, but I just wish our government could support a level playing field instead of bending to the donors so transparently.

 

[Fairchild]

Under the proposed Build Back Better Act, Tesla vehicles will still be able to get a $10,000 portion of the tax credit...far better than $0. Tesla's 200,000 tax deductible eligible vehicle number has been used. The new law extends the vehicle count to 400,000. A gift. Come on, man!

If a $10,000 tax credit for Teslas bothers you, you might consider dialing 1-800 Wah.....wah.....wah.

 

[Mengy]

Under the proposed Build Back Better Act, Tesla vehicles will still be able to get a $10,000 portion of the tax credit...far better than $0. Tesla's 200,000 tax deductible eligible vehicle number has been used. The new law extends the vehicle count to 400,000. A gift. Come on, man!

If a $10,000 tax credit for Teslas bothers you, you might consider dialing 1-800 Wah.....wah.....wah.

How do you figure $10K? These are the new terms for the revised EV credit as the bill currently sits:

• Make the $7,500 incentive a point-of-sale discount instead of tax credit
  
  • EVs with battery pack smaller than 40 kWh are limited to a $4,000 incentive
• Add an additional $4,500 for EV assembled at union factories
• Add another $500 for EVs using battery packs with 50% of components (including cells) are made in the US
• After the first 5 years, the $7,500 becomes only for US-made electric vehicles and it applies for another 5 years.
• They introduce price limits on the EVs eligible for the incentives:
  • Sedans under $55,000
  • SUVs under $69,000
  • Pickup trucks under $74,000
  • Vans under $54,000
• They are also introducing caps on income to get access to the incentives, but they are fairly high at an adjusted gross income of up to $400,000 for individuals and up to $800,000 for joint filers.

I've bolded the ones which Tesla qualifies for, and it totals to $8,000?

 

[Fairchild]

$8000 it is.
Revised slightly from the last iteration. Earnings brackets appear to have been raised. A good thing.
Point of sale discount instead of having to wait until doing taxes. A good thing.

I was very happy with the three $7500 rebates on my previous Teslas and the $35,000 Hummer business tax break (accelerated depreciation) I got on my Model Xs because they were over 6,000 lbs.

Let's not be greedy. I thought for sure they would disappear in the final iteration. $8,000 is more than satisfactory in my view. Got to give these other comers an even break. Union shops protect the workers and that is also a good thing.

Now, however the vehicle price limits might be a problem if the Tesla keeps raising the prices. It may force me to change my CYBRTRK order from Tri to Dual motor. I don't envision the Tri-motor selling for under $74,000.

 

[BMWM3Man]

We shouldn't be subsidized either...nothing is for free. Someone is paying for it.

 

[t.e.s.l.a_dude]

• Make the $7,500 incentive a point-of-sale discount instead of tax credit

How does the point-of-sale discount work? As an example, instead of $50K, we do pay $42.5K to Tesla and later on, Tesla gets the $7,500 from the Government? Not sure if that would fit the automakers.

 

[Fairchild]

We shouldn't be subsidized either...nothing is for free. Someone is paying for it.

Let the ICE planet destroyers pay and cancel the oil subsidies of $20 billion a year pay for it.

How does the point-of-sale discount work? As an example, instead of $50K, we do pay $42.5K to Tesla and later on, Tesla gets the $7,500 from the Government? Not sure if that would fit the automakers.

The original approach of using tax credits rather than a point-of-sale rebate has limited who could take advantage of the program. Customers have paid the retail price upfront and waited to claim the tax credit on the following year’s tax return. To receive the maximum $7,500 credit, the buyer would need sufficient taxable income first to reduce their tax bill by that amount, leaving out many potential customers.

One of the current proposals would be a point of sale rebate. The dealer would give you the credit right then and there, then they would file the paperwork and receive the $8000 (or whatever it is) from the government, not you. Cash for Clunkers worked similarly.

It looks like allocations might not be an issue. (ie 400,000 for Tesla). The tax credit apparently runs out when the number of EVs in the US reach 50%.
Currently, we are at 17%, so that is a ways to go or Dec 31, 2031 (House version). Sure hope the CYBRTRK is out by then! Here are the facts to date, before Senate/House reconciliation.

 

[t.e.s.l.a_dude]

Interesting if the point-of-sale rebate will be immediately active for deliveries after 1/1/22? That should then directly be reflected in our original order hopefully.

 

[Mark J]

We shouldn't be subsidized either...nothing is for free. Someone is paying for it.

No product should be subsidize.

 

[BMWM3Man]

No product should be subsidize.

Correct. If its good it will succeed on it's own accord. Sesame Street comes to mind as an example of something that needs to be "tested/proven" viable in the marketplace and not paid for by tax dollars.

 

[Fairchild]

Correct. If its good it will succeed on it's own accord. Sesame Street comes to mind as an example of something that needs to be "tested/proven" viable in the marketplace and not paid for by tax dollars.

View attachment 727762

Correct?? No Social Security, No Medicare, No Medicaid, No $1.9 tax break for the wealthy and corporations (Now that I have mine, you shouldn't get yours), No arts, No Smithsonian, No Air and Space Museum, No NPR, No Sesame Street (screw kid's education), No roads (build your own), No $20,000,000 a year oil subsidy, No Agriculture subsidies, No foreign aid, No transportation, No mail service, No Space Program, No Railways, No Airlines, No higher education, need I go on. Come on, Man. We no longer live in the dark ages. Subsidies are here to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport.

Five corporations have achieved a trifecta, ranking among the 50 largest recipients of three kinds of funds: state subsidies; federal grants and tax credits; and federal loans, loan guarantees, and bailout assistance. Those businesses, which Good Jobs First defines as the “most successful at obtaining subsidies from all levels of government” are Boeing, Ford Motor, General Electric, General Motors, and JPMorgan Chase. Four of them directly support the consumption of fossil fuels and JPMorgan embodies the banking sector's enduring support for oil .

It's time for Clean EVs to get their share. Subsidies wouldn't be needed if the oil sucking vehicles which provide 75% of carbon monoxide pollution and 27% of greenhouse emissions hadn't got a foothold in destroying the planet.

And don't mess with my Sesame Street. Any readers of research and literature (science) know that"

The "most important" studies that found positive effects of Sesame Street were conducted by educator Herbert A. Sprigle and psychologist Thomas D. Cook during its first two seasons. Both studies found that the show increased the educational gap between poor and middle-class children.
That sounds great for all Americans. Let's go one better and add Free Preschool for all, so we can compete with the world and produce more Elon Musks.

Now, I can agree that Facebook does not need $785,491,326 in subsidies, but that money comes from the States of Georgia, Utah and Texas who swallowed the FB stupid pill.

 

[nwdiver]

Correct. If its good it will succeed on it's own accord.

???? Really? So you're living in an alternate timeline where ~100% of eligible people have taken the FREE covid vaccine?

My timeline is still mired in the Age of Stupid where products succeed based more based on ignorance and false marketing than how 'good' it is

 

[BMWM3Man]

???? Really? So you're living in an alternate timeline where ~100% of eligible people have taken the FREE covid vaccine?

My timeline is still mired in the Age of Stupid where products succeed based more based on ignorance and false marketing than how 'good' it is

The vaccine isn't free! What are you talking about? Where do you think the government gets it's money...US Taxpayers.

 

[advocate8]

I agree no one, including oil companies, should be subsidized!

Does that apply to farmers, coal and other forms of mining, natural gas, as well as oil companies? Most jobs people think of as traditional salt of the earth stuff are subsidized.

 

[nwdiver]

The vaccine isn't free! What are you talking about? Where do you think the government gets it's money...US Taxpayers.

It's free to anyone that wants it. THAT'S the point. Even when the cost is $0 ignorance can stand in the way. Point is that being 'good' isn't sufficient. When there are external costs you need subsidies and/or mandates to balance the scales.

 

[BMWM3Man]

It's free to anyone that wants it. THAT'S the point. Even when the cost is $0 ignorance can stand in the way. Point is that being 'good' isn't sufficient. When there are external costs you need subsidies and/or mandates to balance the scales.

Its free to anyone that wants it but it is being paid by my, their, your taxes so...was it really "free"?

And the Pharmaceutical companies profits also prove "it wasn't FREE!"

Oh and just to be clear...I got both shots so not a "anti-vax" person.