Powerwall 2: SGIP/Incentives

[EV-lutioin]

So, I was told by SolarCity/Tesla that they can not tell me what my SGIP rebate will be until I sign the Powerwall agreement, which in my case is two Powerwalls for $13,000. It seems odd that they can't tell me what my rebate will be before I sign the agreement... Is this how it worked for other folks one this thread that received a SGIP rebate?

 

[1100MCM]

So, I was told by SolarCity/Tesla that they can not tell me what my SGIP rebate will be until I sign the Powerwall agreement, which in my case is two Powerwalls for $13,000. It seems odd that they can't tell me what my rebate will be before I sign the agreement... Is this how it worked for other folks one this thread that received a SGIP rebate?

That's true but I believe you get extended time to back out. At least I got an extension on cancellation period. So if rebate is one of the lower steps then you could back out if you wanted to.

 

[Jeffgtx]

They can't tell you because there's no guarantee you'll sign everything and return the various surveys before a step closes. And even if you and tesla get everything done, the sgip program may go oversubscribed and the rebate lowered through no fault if yours.

They never promised me what if any rebate I would get. Just that they would process the paperwork for me as fast as I could send them the necessary info.

 

[arnolddeleon]

That's true but I believe you get extended time to back out. At least I got an extension on cancellation period. So if rebate is one of the lower steps then you could back out if you wanted to.

I got a rider that basically says if I don't like the proposed rebate I can back out.

arnold

 

[miimura]

Swell Energy is contracting with a different sub for my NorCal installation. I have the site survey scheduled for June 12. I still don't have positive confirmation that I'm in SGIP Step 1, but there are at least 3 from Swell Energy in my zip code in the SGIP table.

 

[Brovane]

Swell Energy is contracting with a different sub for my NorCal installation. I have the site survey scheduled for June 12. I still don't have positive confirmation that I'm in SGIP Step 1, but there are at least 3 from Swell Energy in my zip code in the SGIP table.

If you haven't already, make sure you have your breaker to Outlet and Switch identified. This will be important for the site survey.

Circuit Breaker Labeling - A Better Way

 

[dswansonsb]

@lese - My experience was somewhat like yours, although I didn't reserve a powerwall until April 4 shortly after I heard about the SGIP. I initially reserved one powerwall. A week or so later I received a voice mail about scheduling a site survey, or, if I wanted, I could take some photos and email them. I choose to do the self survey. About that time I replied to the "are you interested in SGIP" from Tesla, a few days later signed some SGIP related docs, and on April 14 received a contract to sign. I did have a couple of questions about backup circuits and spoke to my assigned Legacy Energy Specialist. I learned that the one Powerwall would not backup all my circuits - just those 30A and less - and that my 100A circuit to a subpanel may or may not be backed up. That subpanel supplies the circuits to my recently upgraded kitchen. That was no good. I expressed my interest in a second powerwall. My Energy Specialist changed my reservation to two powerwalls (no extra $500 deposit needed) and said she'd submit to engineering for design and try to get my question about the 100A subpanel answered. 5/1 was quickly approaching and was advised to sign the contract for the single powerwall in hopes of getting the max incentive on at least one powerwall. I did so, but still didn't get in the Tier 1 pool.

On 5/2 I received a contract for the two powerwalls which included an upgrade of my 4 month old 200A main panel to a 225A panel. Apparently, my existing panel had enough backfeed capability for one powerwall, but not two. I still haven't been able to get a straight answer as to how this backfeed to calculated or what the requirements are. I'd love to know if anyone on this forum can shed some light on this.

Anyway, from my experience it seems like Solar City / Tesla is fairly fast with easy, no surprise case but things get bogged down if there are any complications.

 

[miimura]

Did you sign a purchase contract? I've found that the total of the contract is in the sgip tracker sheet under total eligibility so you could try to determine if you are in there. Also my utility sent me an email that I am currently enrolled in step 1. Not sure if all utilities do that or perhaps it went to your installer.

I think your idea to search on the total contract amount might work. However, Swell may have put a standard padded figure in there, so they may not be unique. The SGIP application that I e-signed had an e-mail that was unique to me, but was going to them.

 

[jeep1979]

I called my concierge this morning for status and it went to voicemail. At this moment there has been no returned phone call. However, an SCE planning person just showed up to my house regarding the upgrade of my panel. She is checking out the location and other factors to see if the current location for the upgrade still meets code or not, etc.

She says that SCE currently has a crew shortage and that when she is done it would be around three weeks before my new panel gets installed. Of course, that is just her guess and it could be sooner (or later) than that.

 

[jeep1979]

The SCE planner has completed her job and says everything looks good and still within code for my current configuration for the panel upgrade. She will be calling Solar City with the go ahead for the panel upgrade.

 

[zedkyuu]

I got a call from my SolarCity contact yesterday telling me that multi-Powerwall install hardware is held up and they don't expect to begin doing them until mid-June. Oh well. At least it doesn't affect the SGIP rebate.

 

[jeep1979]

I got a call from my SolarCity contact yesterday telling me that multi-Powerwall install hardware is held up and they don't expect to begin doing them until mid-June. Oh well. At least it doesn't affect the SGIP rebate.

It affects the rebate in the sense that the rebate is not given until the installation is complete and verified. The delay does not affect the amount of the rebate.

 

[lese]

Thanks to those who responded to my long saga with Solar City, but not being able to ask a question of someone who actually knows the answers and having to go through an intermediary who knows nothing that can have an answer for you within about six days is really unacceptable, so I've canceled my order. The installation of a Powerwall in a home with sub panels is really not straightforward and without being able to get direct answers makes it impossible to make the right decisions. If Tesla ever gets its act together and comes up with a better customer interface, I may revisit getting a Powerwall. Good luck to the rest of you.

 

[1100MCM]

Thanks to those who responded to my long saga with Solar City, but not being able to ask a question of someone who actually knows the answers and having to go through an intermediary who knows nothing that can have an answer for you within about six days is really unacceptable, so I've canceled my order. The installation of a Powerwall in a home with sub panels is really not straightforward and without being able to get direct answers makes it impossible to make the right decisions. If Tesla ever gets its act together and comes up with a better customer interface, I may revisit getting a Powerwall. Good luck to the rest of you.

I get your pain. About 3 days ago I received an email from the rebate administrator saying I was missing a signature. I fired off an email to Solar City since they are the ones filling out the forms and submitting the rebates. I never got a reply but today the concierge assigned to me said that several customers received this email and that I shouldn't worry since they have someone working to resolve that.

She also gave me an update on the installation. The last week I spoke to her she said they were waiting for the utility to give the green light for installation. Apparently now she says that the holdup is that they want to do pilot installations before scheduling installations en masse so they can catch any issues. In other words they will let me know when they are ready to schedule installation for mine, she said possibly the end of the month. I signed the install agreement near 4/26 but I'm not getting my hopes up just yet. While I don't necessarily blame front line employees, this pattern of stories, excuses, and issues seems to be a staple of this company when faced with a timely delivery of a product.

I'm not anywhere near canceling but it sounds like another Model S/ Model X/ Model 3 scenario: deliver late and keep stalling but eventually get the product into customer hands.

 

[arnolddeleon]

Fascinating, I just received my SolarCity Docusign document for for SGIP step 2 application.

arnold

 

[abasile]

We just received a copy of the following email from the SGIP administrator. The key points are that the PW2 usable capacity is now rated at 13.2 kWh with a Duration of Discharge of 2.64 hours, and that Tesla isn't considered as an approved California manufacturer.

Dear [LASG contact person],

Thank you for submitting the Reservation Request package for SGIP project SCE-SGIP-2017-XXXX for YYYY ZZZZ.

During the document review, we have found that the following items are missing and/or in need of clarification:

Project Description:
A 13.2 kWh Electrochemical Energy Storage System manufactured by Tesla will be installed at the project site. It has a rated capacity of 5 kW.

Notes:
Model #: Powerwall 2.0

The Tesla Powerwall 2.0 specification sheet has been updated since the submittal of RRF application. The Total Energy Storage Capacity has been updated to 13.2 kWh and the Duration of Discharge has been updated to 2.64 hours resulting in a decrease in the reserved incentive amount.

Issues: The following issues have been found with the RRF:
• Tesla is not an approved California Manufacturer.
• No contract with warranty documentation supplied.

Needs: Please update or include the following items and resubmit application:
• Update Approved California Manufacturer to “No.” Tesla is not an approved California Manufacturer.
• Provide copy of Executed Contract or Agreement for Installation with required Warranty Documentation.

For more information on the required documents at the Reservation Request stage, please refer to the SGIP Handbook.

To prevent cancellation of your incentive reservation, please submit the above items or answers no later than 06/08/17.

Missing documents must be submitted via the online application portal:
· Log into your Applicant account at www.selfgenca.com and select the project from the Dashboard
· Upload the revised and/or missing materials to Documents page in the application
· Once you have completed the revisions, click the Submit button on the Submit page to deliver the materials to the Program Administrator

Once the Reservation Request is approved and deemed complete, you will receive a Reservation Notice Letter. Please note that incentive funds are only reserved for you once you have received this Reservation Notice Letter.

Should you have any questions or concerns regarding this matter, please feel free to contact me.

Best Regards,
SGIP Program Management
Southern California Edison

 

[Poiuy09]

Still waiting for my rebate application from Tesla.
Tesla website still lists usable capacity as 13.5 kWh. So based on the email that @abasile received, the SGIP step 2 rebate per PW will be $4640.
@arnolddeleon - Glad to see some progress. Are you seeing the same numbers on your SGIP rebate application?

 

[arnolddeleon]

Still waiting for my rebate application from Tesla.
Tesla website still lists usable capacity as 13.5 kWh. So based on the email that @abasile received, the SGIP step 2 rebate per PW will be $4640.
@arnolddeleon - Glad to see some progress. Are you seeing the same numbers on your SGIP rebate application?

Some interesting numbers and tidbits, my quote is for 2 Powerwalls:

Total Rated Capacity (kW): 10
Total Energy Storage Capacity (kWh): 26.4
Discharge Hours Duration: 2.64

Max Equipment Incentive: $9,280

Tesla is not getting the CA manufacturer adder (not surprising). (edit: I see that @abasile covered much of the same ground already)

If I understood the rebate rules correctly, the rebate would have been higher if it could discharge faster (e.g. discharge the total storage capacity in 2 hours).

The obligations are be on TOU tariff or dynamic tariff or a Cal ISO proxy demand program or the equivalent of a full capacity discharge 52/year during peak periods.

I had gone into this assuming that I was going down the second path but I might be eligible down the first path. I suspect I might end qualifying on both accounts. I'm currently on E-6 and it makes "cents" to use the Powerwall to sell/consume more of my production during peak. This should allow me to zero out my true-up bill.

arnold

 

[miimura]

The obligations are be on TOU tariff or dynamic tariff or a Cal ISO proxy demand program or the equivalent of a full capacity discharge 52/year during peak periods.

I had gone into this assuming that I was going down the second path but I might be eligible down the first path. I suspect I might end qualifying on both accounts. I'm currently on E-6 and it makes "cents" to use the Powerwall to sell/consume more of my production during peak. This should allow me to zero out my true-up bill.

arnold

According to my calculations, if you charge a PowerWall with Part-Peak solar generation and discharge 10kWh during Peak hours every day on PG&E Schedule EV, you can reduce your True-Up by about $600/year. That is $375 during the Summer rate period and just under $225 during the Winter rate period. This is based on current rates of Summer $0.454/kWh Peak, $0.250 Part-Peak and Winter $0.320 Peak, $0.198 Part-Peak. This calculation accounts for the fact that your are foregoing the Part-Peak credit but getting Peak credit instead.

E-6 is actually pretty terrible for arbitrage. First, you will probably be within baseline during the summer, so the differential is only 11.5c/kWh between Peak and Part-Peak. Second, in the Winter, there is only 1.6c/kWh delta. My rough calculation is $242/year per PowerWall. It's difficult to model precisely because of the Baseline quantities and the fact that Peak rates are only M-F.

My recommendation for @arnolddeleon is to change to Schedule EV and enroll with Silicon Valley Clean Energy early on the Green Prime plan. If the PowerWall does push your generation charges to a credit, they will pay you for it while PG&E won't.

 

[arnolddeleon]

According to my calculations, if you charge a PowerWall with Part-Peak solar generation and discharge 10kWh during Peak hours every day on PG&E Schedule EV, you can reduce your True-Up by about $600/year. That is $375 during the Summer rate period and just under $225 during the Winter rate period. This is based on current rates of Summer $0.454/kWh Peak, $0.250 Part-Peak and Winter $0.320 Peak, $0.198 Part-Peak. This calculation accounts for the fact that your are foregoing the Part-Peak credit but getting Peak credit instead.

E-6 is actually pretty terrible for arbitrage. First, you will probably be within baseline during the summer, so the differential is only 11.5c/kWh between Peak and Part-Peak. Second, in the Winter, there is only 1.6c/kWh delta. My rough calculation is $242/year per PowerWall. It's difficult to model precisely because of the Baseline quantities and the fact that Peak rates are only M-F.

My recommendation for @arnolddeleon is to change to Schedule EV and enroll with Silicon Valley Clean Energy early on the Green Prime plan. If the PowerWall does push your generation charges to a credit, they will pay you for it while PG&E won't.

Thanks @miimura , always appreciate your work. A few years ago I did a comparison of my usage using a spreadsheet that I got from the net: PGE Billing Estimator E1 E6 E7 EV-A E9-A

I wonder if you are the original author of this spreadsheet. I couldn't find where I found it, I just had a copy. I added E-7 to it when I did the comparison. At that time E-7 was by far the best for me and then E-6. The problem is since then I've struggled to get usage data because my adventures with sub-metering trials destroyed what I could download from PG&E. Of course last year E-7 died so I've been on E-6. Since the winter was cold and rainy I had bad year true-up wise because I use an air source heat pump as my primary heating source. I was contemplating switching to EV-A primarily because the winter tiered really bite. I had held off because I'm signed up at the moment for another round sub-metering pilot. I suspect it costs me a little bit I really want to help the utilities to get it right.

I think might do ok with the Powerwalls on E-6 because my PV systems are large enough to actually shift off peak power to peak power.

I need to find out if I'm eligible for federal tax credits and if I can change my application. If I can get some more money back that will radically change the payback equation. Right now it's a bit worse that I originally hoped for (missed step 1, step 2 is $0.4 instead $0.45 and SolarCity wants to install a new main panel which I think can be avoided).

arnold