Powerwall 2: SGIP/Incentives

[SoundDaTrumpet]

Wow Arnold, I was under the impression that you were good to go with SGIP, and that I was all alone with my decision to go all in with Tesla and hope for the best, or to go with other developers to get in on Step 2. I chatted with a couple of Tesla Energy representatives, and though it sounds like they are playing games, they are just plain overloaded with SGIP requests. First off, Step 2 filled up in 5 days for Tesla, and per SGIP, in writing, they aren't allowed to submit more applications. Tesla was explaining to me how they submit and that it's up to the "Utility" to pick/choose (i.e. a lottery for PG&E). I may not have to full story, and will make some assumptions. My impression is that SGIP stopped taking applications from Tesla once they hit the 20% developer limit for Step 2. In order for the reps statement to be true, more than 20% applications were received, and the rest were turned away. Then of the more than 20%, to whittle the numbers down, it went into lottery.

The bad news for me is that they also said the SGIP is completely separate effort and that Powerwall Reservation folks need to be okay with installing without any SGIP rebate. Sounds to me they kept moving forward with your install while treating the SGIP paperwork separate. I am not sure if you are aware that under Section 9.0 of the SGIP Resource page, there is a "Real-Tim Public Report" that captures ALL submitted applications. If and when I sign my paperwork, I will looking out for it to be listed. No names for privacy reason, but everything else on the application shows up.

I explained my situation and dismay working with third-party installers, and Tesla recommended going with them since they are pretty much guaranteed SGIP funds. The disappointing thing is the developers know Tesla hit their 20% developer cap, and aren't interesting in competing with Tesla's installation prices. The developers priced things so well to dissuade homeowners from getting a developers license for a self-install. I do see a few developers registered as "self-install." I figure they are already license contractors installing on their own home. I do wonder if Tesla can qualify as the "installer." There is supposed to be provisions for home owners to qualify as developers, but it's all becoming a little fuzzy as I read into it.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

Wow Arnold. What a punch in the gut. I still don't have a good feeling about Swell Energy either. I just asked for a status report since I haven't heard anything in the month since my site eval. The answer was that the subcontractor who is doing the installs in my area has not come back with their site review report. They also said that PG&E is dribbling out SGIP technical reviews and confirmations. So, I continue to wait to see how much more expensive they will be than Tesla (before incentive).

miimura, Swell sent a subcontractor for my site eval. I called to ask about the site evaluation and simply said I was good to go. "Good to go" meaning "within scope of the contract's dollar amount." I am still waiting to see the final proposal. Sadly, my main 200A service panel needs to be replaced or another 200A panel needs to be put behind it. This limitation was confirmed with another developer's proposal. Installation costs from the contract's dollar amount are way too high. I am already losing interest in the Powerwall.

 

[arnolddeleon]

Yeah, I thought I was good too. The most generous interpretation I can make is that when the designers touched my file and tried add that 3rd Powerwall it "broke" their system and no one noticed. The lesson for others is make sure you get your SGIP reservation confirmation. I didn't realize I didn't have it and I believe the Telsa contact I was talking to didn't either.

It's just frustrating that Tesla basically said they screwed up but there is nothing they can do and basically pointing the SGIP program as something not under their control although clearly their failure to submit my application is completely on them.

I did a quick read of the SGIP handbook to see if I could easily qualify as developer. It doesn't look like it.

The sad thing with the developer cap is it working as incentive for higher costs since the lowest cost vendor is capped out. It's quite likely that it will be still be cheaper to go w/ Tesla at step 3 versus another vendor step 2, except for the wait.

arnold

 

[Brovane]

miimura, Swell sent a subcontractor for my site eval. I called to ask about the site evaluation and simply said I was good to go. "Good to go" meaning "within scope of the contract's dollar amount." I am still waiting to see the final proposal. Sadly, my main 200A service panel needs to be replaced or another 200A panel needs to be put behind it. This limitation was confirmed with another developer's proposal. Installation costs from the contract's dollar amount are way too high. I am already losing interest in the Powerwall.

I am very close to firing Swell Energy and just not doing any Powerwall install this year. They still cannot give a completed design and an accurate quote based on this design. I am thinking I will just be better off spending the money I was going to pay for the Powerwall and install additional panels on my roof. Try again next year with Tesla and hopefully they have the entire process better sorted out.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

The sad thing with the developer cap is it working as incentive for higher costs since the lowest cost vendor is capped out. It's quite likely that it will be still be cheaper to go w/ Tesla at step 3 versus another vendor step 2, except for the wait.

arnold

Agree with you on that! The steps were supposed to be gradual $0.05 decrements. Since Step 1 went so quickly, it triggered the $0.10 rebate decrease, and now it is Day 40 and no one is in a hurry anymore. If SGIP goal is to rapidly deploy energy storage to stabilize the grid, they should increase Tesla's developer cap to 25% in 5% incremental "steps" until funds are exhausted.

 

[Skryll]

Check this page for per developer caps.
https://www.selfgenca.com/home/program_metrics/
View attachment 235455

if you go with any other developer, you can get into Step2, but not with Tesla.

All those are southern california installers, for northern california who besides tesla would be able to do it ?

 

[miimura]

I am very close to firing Swell Energy and just not doing any Powerwall install this year. They still cannot give a completed design and an accurate quote based on this design. I am thinking I will just be better off spending the money I was going to pay for the Powerwall and install additional panels on my roof. Try again next year with Tesla and hopefully they have the entire process better sorted out.

I don't see the rush in firing them. I'm not really missing the $500 deposit at the moment and I see no reason to get my knickers in a twist until they come forward with a contract for me to sign. I have a number in mind for the out of pocket I'm willing to spend after all incentives and if they inflate the install too much to capture more of the Step 1 or Step 2 incentive for themselves, then I'll just give up the deposit and walk away. There's no sense throwing good money after bad. A straight Tesla install with the 30% ITC isn't looking so bad right now. I'm just sitting tight to see the actual figures Swell Energy comes up with.

 

[arnolddeleon]

I don't see the rush in firing them. I'm not really missing the $500 deposit at the moment and I see no reason to get my knickers in a twist until they come forward with a contract for me to sign. I have a number in mind for the out of pocket I'm willing to spend after all incentives and if they inflate the install too much to capture more of the Step 1 or Step 2 incentive for themselves, then I'll just give up the deposit and walk away. There's no sense throwing good money after bad. A straight Tesla install with the 30% ITC isn't looking so bad right now. I'm just sitting tight to see the actual figures Swell Energy comes up with.

FWIW Tesla agreed upfront to give me the option to cancel if I didn't like the the total after SGIP and I still get my deposit back. That is still an option. The contact I dealt with the most was surprised when I gave him the status of my project. He didn't know about the failure to submit. He is checking to see what they can do for me. I'm hanging onto a sliver of hope that Tesla can turn their snafu into redemption. I asked him about becoming the developer of record, he made it sound that it was possible but very time consuming.

Do the folks running the SGIP realize they need to do some tweaking?

 

[stevemcsheen]

Question: has anyone actually received their SGIP incentive check? I should be in Step 1, having met the deadline and as one of the first 100 PW2 installs I don't see anything that would delay it. Long story short, my last communication from SGIP was on 6/29 that it was "under review". I keep checking my email and regular mailbox hoping for good news, but nothing so far in mid-July.

 

[Jeffgtx]

You can check the sgip log file every Monday. The link is earlier in this thread. Most step 1s that I see are still under review though there are some that are reserved.

 

[stevemcsheen]

Thanks @Jeffgtx, I missed that! (EDIT: I've been going through each page of this thread, searching the forum, and searching the web and the SGIP, and can't find a link to this spreadsheet. Does anyone have the link or know what to search for?)

You can check the sgip log file every Monday. The link is earlier in this thread. Most step 1s that I see are still under review though there are some that are reserved.

 

[stevemcsheen]

I think I found it on SGIP's site. It's a horrible spreadsheet - Tesla seems to be entered at least 10 ways as the manufacturer for the battery. My reservation also lists "FALSE" under being powered by renewables. This has been a pretty agonizing process - out of my control, in SolarCity's hands, and with a lot of apparent errors on the SGIP program's side. I just emailed the SolarCity incentive program (again) and will call but this has been a very rough and not confidence inspiring process. Here are a few keywords to help others find the link to this file: SGIP log file spreadsheet csv weekly monday public export reservation reserve reserved



Real-Time Public Report

 

[montreid]

Has anyone actually just submitted directly to SGIP and selected your own approved installer instead of letting the installer submit the SGIP? Is it easier or faster to get reservation and approval?

I think it'll still run up against the 20% cap that Tesla is having trouble though. Not quite sure.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

All those are southern california installers, for northern california who besides tesla would be able to do it ?

Swell is a northern California installer based in southern California. Swell has a partnership with an installer in the top half of the state.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

I think I found it on SGIP's site. It's a horrible spreadsheet - Tesla seems to be entered at least 10 ways as the manufacturer for the battery. My reservation also lists "FALSE" under being powered by renewables. This has been a pretty agonizing process - out of my control, in SolarCity's hands, and with a lot of apparent errors on the SGIP program's side. I just emailed the SolarCity incentive program (again) and will call but this has been a very rough and not confidence inspiring process. Here are a few keywords to help others find the link to this file: SGIP log file spreadsheet csv weekly monday public export reservation reserve reserved



Real-Time Public Report

Be reminded in 2016, unethical "automated methods" were used when applying for funds. It was huge controversy that made headlines. (We have them to thank for the residential carve out.) To avoid this I am sure everything is entered by hand now (no macros, no robots). I filtered for "reserved" funds and two different ways to spell Tesla were approved. I believe each application is processed manually one at a time.

 

[Ulmo]

No. I did not elect to participate in SGIP.

It turns out that SGIP was just as nuisancesome of a welfare program as most welfare programs; my initial encouragement to you to do it because it's so simple turned out to be wrong, so you made the right choice not only for your many other stated reasons but also for that reason. I did participate in SGIP and it is knocking off $9,280.00 for me, leaving around $3,500 to pay net (they say I must pay in full with first invoice and then SGIP reimburses me).

 

[TacC]

PG&E grandfathering of net metering only partially protects solar owners interests, and is not comprehensive enough. PG&E can "at will" change the rate schedules, especially peak pricing hours. I bought into solar during the time when E-1, E-6, and EV-A/B was available and wondered why at the time installers didn't factor in time-of-use (TOU) rate schedule when sizing systems. Now I know why. The installers didn't want to be liable for rate schedule changes in the future. Yes it was a smart move on their part as peak to non-peak rates for the current available E-TOU (for non-EV owners) only carry a 10-30%, which isn't great for solar. To worsen the benefits to solar, future E-TOU peak will shift to 4-9PM as stated in the rate schedule. In essence, E-TOU is practically "flat rate" rate schedule during optimal solar production effectively eliminating rate arbitrage. Although net metering isn't going away for ~20 years, PG&E is indirectly taking it away by chipping away at solar benefits. I am not at all trying to bad mouth PG&E. On contrary, I am 100% on-board with their attempt to level-out demand of grid users. The installation of a powerwall will be grid friendly and well worth the wait.

I am on the EV rate schedule which is leaps and bounds the best rate schedule. I suspect the only reason it exists is that PG&E simply don't want us charging the cars immediately after our commutes, and wish to collect some revenue while their 24/7 natural gas base power stations operate throughout the night.

Is it possible to be on EV-A and qualify for SGIP? Does PG&E endorse that or will/did you do it without tying the PW2 into the grid?

 

[miimura]

Is it possible to be on EV-A and qualify for SGIP? Does PG&E endorse that or will/did you do it without tying the PW2 into the grid?

I don't think it matters what rate schedule you're on for SGIP. EV-A is probably the most beneficial for TOU arbitrage though.

 

[Ulmo]

SGIP timing:

Has anybody received their "Reservation Notice Letter" from the SGIP process?

Here's the most recent emails I got:

• June 15, 2017: [email protected]: Confirm reviewing Reservation Request application (PG&E) for SGIP project.
• June 6, 2017: [email protected]: Received conditional rebate confirmation for Step 2 of SGIP rebate program for PowerWall.
• June 6, 2017: [email protected]: SGIP Reservation Request application (PG&E) has been assigned to Small Residential Storage Step 2.
• May 18, 2017: [email protected]: Step 1 closed; step 2 opening; June 5: applicants may submit completed step 2 applications. May 22: caps will be fixed. (The fix is in on May 22 for June 5? Huh.)

Here's why I'm asking about this "Reservation Notice Letter"; the most recent email I received (which is from [email protected]) has this text (all emphasis (bold, italics) mine):

"A detailed review of the Reservation Request application will be performed to ensure that all program requirements have been satisfied. If it is found that documents are missing or clarifications are needed, a request for this information will be issued and you will have 15 days to submit the missing information.

Once the Reservation Request is deemed complete, you will receive a Reservation Notice Letter. Please note that incentive funds are only reserved for you once you have received this Reservation Notice Letter.


Complete program information, including required incentive application documents, submittal deadlines and application fee requirements are available in the SGIP Handbook."​

This process is being handled by my installer, SolarCity, at the moment, so that is a splendid thing, since they will gain experience working with this and deal with many of the templates pretty basically, leaving less room for error. However, I just want to be made aware of any comparisons between my situation and others.

 

[bkp_duke]

If you are relying on arbitrage to justify your purchase of PowerWalls and NEED the level of control that you mentioned, you should not purchase it now. You should wait until the features you NEED are actually available.

I am also have serious second thoughts due to this lack of user control. I guess the only bright side to the radio silence from Swell and SGIP is that I have more time to consider this and for Tesla to implement more features.

Not possible.

Without the SGIP, this project makes ZERO sense under any circumstances. The only payback I can work out mathematically in a reasonable time (12 years or less) is SGIP + incentivized discharge (OhmConnect or something like that).