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Powerwall 2: Technical

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5) And finally a simple question hopefully. The Powerwall is advertised as going well with solar because it enables your solar system to remain "on-line". I'm confused about how it does this. Simple example: let's say I have just one battery hooked to my 15-kW solar array. At full solar generation and during power failure, would the total installed system actually deliver 15kW to the house, or is it basically wired such that the solar remains "live" but only charges the battery, and then the battery provides power to house at 5kW? If going through the battery, this has some advantages as it stabilizes the power over solar fluctuations, but the trade-off is that it limits the total power to house. Both scenarios need a new transfer switch to de-energize PG&E lines.
Thanks for reading!

First off, for safety reasons, all solar panels are required to go off-line when there is a power outage. Power worker would need safe access to restore the power lines on de-energized lines.

With a battery, your house would act like a mini power grid. In the event of a utility power outage, the backup gateway would disconnect your house from the grid. Utility workers can safely work on restoring the power lines. Your solar array would still be online and be used to power household loads and excess energy would charge the battery.

Your battery backup should be sized to be greater than, (1) Peak total solar generation or (2) Peak expected demand (partial or whole home backup). Although you have a 15kW Solar array, due to inefficiencies, it would be less. For example, I have a 5.7 kW Solar Array, but notice peak production looks to actually be 4.5 kW. I chose two Powerwalls since I want the headroom to add more solar panels and provide whole home backup.
 
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I am looking for some specs on the AC Powerwall 2:

Total Rated Capacity:
Total Energy Storage Capacity:
Amp-hour Capacity:
Nominal Voltage:
Discharge Hours Duration:
Continuous Power Output of DC-DC Converter:
DC-DC Converter efficiency:

Any help is appreciated.
Did you ever get this information? I am also looking for this as I want to apply for my own SGIP rebate.
 
I have 400 amp service delivered to a panel out in a field. It splits to 200A service each for my main home and small pool house. Tesla was unable to monitor that panel due to wireless distance, so my Tesla app only shows consumption on my main house. However, the tech came out this week and informed me that they have external antennae being delivered shortly which should solve the issue.

Just a heads up, in case anyone else has this same situation.
 
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I did the home use < solar supply + battery supply && home use > battery supply && grid use = 0 test. My initial conclusion is inconclusive.

Step 1: I waited for a sunny day with decent solar output.
Step 2: I started washing clothes to set up for the dryer.
Step 3: I noticed someone else started the dryer for me. This put us at about 6kW use.
Step 4: I turned on two heaters. This put us at about what I thought was 9kW use (see below for actual).
Step 5: I turned off one PowerWall. This would reduce our battery capacity to 5kW continuous.
Step 6: I turned off PG&E breaker.

I then went to observe.

A: The power to the dryer was off. This is the first failure we've had in the backup gateway. I'm pretty disappointed. Power was on when I tried lamps.
B: I turned the dryer back on. The power dropped again. Lamp off.
C: I realized I was overtaxing it somehow, so went to turn back on my turned off battery.
D: Power was on. I also turned back on the dryer.

Now, time for postmortem:

It is possible I didn't do the math right. Solar was around 2kW to 3kW. 2kW+5kW=7kW, and that's less than 9kW. Let's see what's actually going on:
powerflow.3389.png


Let's go through the steps corresponding to the above graph:

Step 1: I waited for a sunny day with decent solar. Brings us to Sunday. Actually: 3,100W solar input.
Step 2: I started washing clothes to set up for the dryer.
Step 3: I noticed someone else started the dryer for me. This put us at about 6kW use. Actually: Black dots at 10:46-10:48 at 6kW use.
Step 4: I turned on two heaters. I thought this put us at about 9kW use. Actually: Black dots between 10:49 and 10:50 at 7,200W use.
Step 5: I turned off one PowerWall. This would reduce our battery supply capacity to 5kW continuous. Add this to the solar, and that's 8kW available.
Step 6: I turned off PG&E breaker. The noisy red line on the left is PG&E. Since the red line stops, that means that's when all recording stopped, and that's when power was lost the first time, shutting down my logger. As soon as the noisy red line disappeared is when I turned off the PG&E breaker.

Right at 10:50, it looks like the dryer was off but everything else was functional. I bet the dryer was off due to its thermostat, but I don't know. Then, when the dryer came back on, it went to ~7,200 watts again, and that was more than the Tesla Backup Gateway would allow, so it shut off. Interestingly, our dryer will shut off and stay off when power is off, so when the Gateway auto-restored, it could do so without the dryer load on. While this interrupts all electronics inside the house, if they are able to reboot unattended, at least they will come back to power. This is a mode I should consider making more robust.

All my logging came back online at 11:01 (I haven't yet automated this, so I had to manually restore a lot of it). It clearly has the sign of 0 utility (red dots) on the right, so the noise in utility (red dots) on the left that go all the way up until no points mean that utility was connected until all power dropped.

There are some possibilities.
  • There may have been a glitch caused by one battery being turned off. This is the first time I've ever done that. That might have caused a variety of things to happen that I cannot determine today and don't want to test thoroughly.
  • Gateway might have been in limp mode due to one battery being off. It might have refused to function to its full abilities.
Other than that, I had 5,000 Watts of battery available + 3,100 Watts of solar available = 8,100 Watts available, and only 7,200 Watts of use, so needless to say, if that were the full story, I'd be thoroughly disappointed in the performance of the Backup Gateway in this running mode. But, that's not the full story. We have to look at the balance of the two legs of the load and how the inverters are able to split it. Can they split it in whatever way we use it?

The dryer was on 240, so fairly balanced load. The two electric heaters were all on one side of the neutral median, so they were a lopsided load. So: 6kW of dryer taking all 5kW of the turned-on battery + 1kW of the solar, then 2kW of solar left in 240 mode so I don't know if that's only 1kW available on one leg of 120 VAC or 2kW available, so my 1,200 heater load might have been 200 Watts (plus other sundry items in the house) more than that one leg could handle, or it might not have been. This might have actually been a failure due to excess use on one leg of power. I'd like to know how to measure the different legs in the outputs other than buying more meters; obviously, the Gateway doesn't expose that information in the logging that I do; it just shows an aggregate number. The meters do measure the legs separately.

One thing I could do is put a meter on one of the legs to know the draw, and attempt to balance and/or imbalance it.

Now, I need to set up a test where I can draw ~12,000 watts of power. I'd struggle to come up with that. It could be done, but it would make the house a sort of noisy strange place for an hour.



Test 2:

Restoring power and solar during a power outage:

That works fine. I never turned utility power back on once I started this test. As soon as I placed the second battery in the ON state, with both batteries ON (normal state), everything started working again. Right now, the solar is charging the batteries. At least all two batteries I do need; utility power I don't need.

I hope Tesla's PowerWalls come down in price; they'd be a lot more beneficial at a price point that allowed homes to install 4 to 6 batteries, as opposed to 2. Some homes would want 8 or more, due to car charging and other concerns. Off-grid is a bit trickier with cloudy days.

Test 3:

Letting solar fully charge the batteries and then see what happens when there's more solar and no grid.

We'll see.



For those conducting these tests, it helps to have more meters available (or time to manually measure each pertinent piece of information), more logging (or time to measure each pertinent piece of information manually), more backups on the loggers (or time to manually take down manual measurements between each step), but regardless of all that, more time between each discrete step of the test. That makes the logging easier to decipher and read. I continually forget that; I am very fast when I test things, and it's hard to see what was going on in the logs afterwards when everything happens in one flurry.

So, what I'm really looking for now is a way to open up all the boxes, get out my manual tester, and then slowly perform the test with a bunch of manual measurements, doing things slower and more carefully. That will have to wait for a rare day that I am home and everyone else is working, but that does happen; perhaps within two months.

I'll see if I can sneak in a test today in case everyone leaves briefly later on. I'll leave both batteries on for the next test. I never turned PG&E back on; I have no need for it. And, I'll have to find some 240VAC load that can add to the dryer to put me at around 12kW. I'll probably need to buy a dual breaker to put into the box and a socket so that I can do that. I wonder what item I could use; perhaps rent something from a rental place.
 
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Test 3:

Letting solar fully charge the batteries and then see what happens when there's more solar and no grid.
I conducted this test, and am very dissatisfied with the results.

To repeat: grid was disconnected, batteries became full from solar, and excess solar was being produced. Home had a load under the amount of solar and battery available.

At 14:29, the battery became nearly full. (The battery state of charge status graphed lags by about 5 minutes, since I pull that from the Mothership, not direct from the Gateway, like the rest of the numbers; using the Tesla app showed 99%.) At this time, the SolarEdge dropped from full solar production to 0, nada, zip: the 1,400 watts being used by the home at the time would not be served by solar, but by battery, only. (See graph #3 below.)

Graph #1: Graph of Watts to Home, Grid, Solar and Battery (negative is From). Main information is from this graph.
powerflow.8804.png


Graph #2: Same graph as graph #1 with Watts made light and additional data for Frequency in Hertz plotted with the main meter colors. This allows us to surmise some of the frequency interactions being claimed to happen between the SolarEdge and the Tesla Backup Gateway and PowerWall 2's. Hertz was around 60, until battery became almost full at ~14:28, whereupon Hertz started climbing steadily from the battery, followed fairly closely by the home; Graph #3 zooms into that. Supposedly, at some threshold, the SolarEdge gives up and stops sending power out, cutting off completely, around 14:29. The PowerWalls stay at 63 Hertz from then on, until I turn back on the power at 14:41, then the PowerWalls drop below 60 Hertz (eyeballing it, it's around 59.96Hz (graph #4)), trying to skew into synchronization with the grid), and during that time, the SolarEdge, which I'm guessing was in another countdown to check for restart (see picture #6 at 14:35:46) eventually decided to restart at 14:51, being fully absorbed at that time by the PowerWalls, and then the frequency finally resynchronizes with the grid at around 14:59 and reconnects with the grid at 15:02. What if the Solar inverter comes back online before the PowerWalls are synchronized with the grid and there's not enough use for the full energy to absorb all the power? Do they just desync positive Hertz (+.5Hz) to throw off the inverter again, and then have to labor to get back to the grid frequency? That's dumb! Tesla should have a direct communication with the SolarEdge to coordinate this without hints and shoving each other overboard with dumb timeouts. The things coordinated should be an exact wattage from the inverter, as much as it is able to regulate to do so, as well as other data as necessary.

powerflow.2627.png


Graph #3: Zooming in to the cutoff, showing both power and frequency in Watts and Hertz:
powerflow.25350.png


Graph #4: Zooming into restart of solar and grid, showing power & frequency in Watts & Hertz:
powerflow.2288.png


Picture #5: SolarEdge showing Error 34 at 14:35:07; one online manual says that Error 34 is "AC Frequency Too High"; "Grid frequency is above the limit permitted in this country.":

IMG_8183.JPG


Picture #6: SolarEdge showing wake up countdown at 14:35:46:
IMG_8184.JPG


Picture #7: SolarEdge showing Error 34 at 14:40:28:

IMG_8186.JPG


There is an inescapable conclusion from this test: if the SolarEdge cannot be made to reduce its solar input to that of what the PowerWalls and Home want (when grid is not connected) and must be forced to shut down completely, then there is no way to have Solar power + Battery power > Home needs work when Home needs exceed the capacity of the batteries available and when home needs exceed the power of solar available and the batteries are full; in this case, the Gateway will shut off the power. In addition, the Gateway will use only battery if solar is available if that solar exceeds needs of home + ability of batteries to charge. In this case, it does not make sense to size a PowerWall 2 system smaller than the array capacity; 5kW for each battery, so, for instance, a 12kW array would need 3 batteries, and a 9kW array would need 2, as a sort of minimum. Even then, the power would ping pong between using battery without solar and using solar for home and the extra to recharge battery.

For such a huge corporation such as Tesla, this seems like really bad thoroughness in design.
 
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I conducted this test, and am very dissatisfied with the results.

To repeat: grid was disconnected, batteries became full from solar, and excess solar was being produced. Home had a load under the amount of solar and battery available.

At 14:29, the battery became nearly full. (The battery state of charge status graphed lags by about 5 minutes, since I pull that from the Mothership, not direct from the Gateway, like the rest of the numbers; using the Tesla app showed 99%.) At this time, the SolarEdge dropped from full solar production to 0, nada, zip: the 1,400 watts being used by the home at the time would not be served by solar, but by battery, only. (See graph #3 below.)

I think the hardware is capable of dealing with it. Here's a document I found at SolarEdge:

https://www.solaredge.com/sites/def...g_and_control_using_non_solarege_gateways.pdf

It has a scenario listed on Page 9 that is similar to but not equal to mine. However, Tesla has not gone through any effort to explain how to integrate with this, and the installers didn't seem to deal with it at all. I'd like to know how to connect the Tesla Backup Gateway via the RS485 and have them work more seamlessly, without all of this dropping power when there's excess solar, or not using the power from the solar when batteries aren't enough.

According to SolarEdge from the above document:
=====
Communications Technologies

StorEdge uses an open, industry-standard communications stack in order to provide efficient messaging between SolarEdge and third-party devices and applications.

Screen Shot 2017-08-27 at 5.25.51 PM.png

Figure 1: StorEdge Communications Stack
The communications stack components are briefly described below.

SunSpec

SunSpec is an application-layer communications protocol designed to achieve interoperability between Distributed Energy Resource (DER) components and smart grid applications.

Modbus

Modbus is a serial communications protocol typically used to connect data collection terminals to a centralized processing unit. StorEdge uses Modbus to perform SunSpec messaging over two types of physical/link-layer channels:
  • Modbus RTU: Remote Terminal Unit (RTU) Modbus over a serial RS485 connection
  • Modbus TCP: Modbus over an Ethernet connection
=====
Does anybody have experience with SunSpec and/or Modbus?
 
I think the hardware is capable of dealing with it. Here's a document I found at SolarEdge:

https://www.solaredge.com/sites/def...g_and_control_using_non_solarege_gateways.pdf

It has a scenario listed on Page 9 that is similar to but not equal to mine. However, Tesla has not gone through any effort to explain how to integrate with this, and the installers didn't seem to deal with it at all. I'd like to know how to connect the Tesla Backup Gateway via the RS485 and have them work more seamlessly, without all of this dropping power when there's excess solar, or not using the power from the solar when batteries aren't enough.

According to SolarEdge from the above document:
=====
Communications Technologies

StorEdge uses an open, industry-standard communications stack in order to provide efficient messaging between SolarEdge and third-party devices and applications.

View attachment 244114
Figure 1: StorEdge Communications Stack
The communications stack components are briefly described below.

SunSpec

SunSpec is an application-layer communications protocol designed to achieve interoperability between Distributed Energy Resource (DER) components and smart grid applications.

Modbus

Modbus is a serial communications protocol typically used to connect data collection terminals to a centralized processing unit. StorEdge uses Modbus to perform SunSpec messaging over two types of physical/link-layer channels:
  • Modbus RTU: Remote Terminal Unit (RTU) Modbus over a serial RS485 connection
  • Modbus TCP: Modbus over an Ethernet connection
=====
Does anybody have experience with SunSpec and/or Modbus?
FYI, I'm looking up SunSpec now, and it seems to be a 1MB XML definition with a load of values in it, kind of creating a heavy standard to follow. I'm still looking for control codes. Right now they only talk about SunSpec as a way to reveal information, not as a way for integrating controls. I see very little industry support, and very little sign that it's been fleshed out. While reading the XML code, there are lots of novice mistakes embedded with no corrections, and a lot if it is over half a decade old. It looks rather abandoned. I retract my interest of it in large part.

I just want a way for the two devices to appropriately communicate, with the Gateway appropriately controlling the Inverter using the information available from the Inverter, without them ungracefully shutting down the other when they don't have to, rather than just matching demand.

Both Tesla (as SolarCity) and SolarEdge were at one point "contributors", but that could be a lie as well.
 
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You can fault Tesla for this rough integration all you want, but I don't think there is an industry standard for how to handle what Tesla is providing during power outages. Almost everybody that makes grid tied inverters assumes that there is a nearly infinite grid to push energy into and if there isn't, they shut down until the grid comes back within their operating parameters. SolarEdge could just as easily implement a proportional curtailment when the frequency varies above 60Hz so that it and the PowerWall could balance the supply of solar and demand from your home. It would be interesting to see what happens when a SunnyBoy inverter is put in the same position as your SolarEdge because the SunnyIsland and the SunnyBoy are supposed to happily interoperate in this situation without any auxiliary communication.
 
You can fault Tesla for this rough integration all you want, but I don't think there is an industry standard for how to handle what Tesla is providing during power outages. Almost everybody that makes grid tied inverters assumes that there is a nearly infinite grid to push energy into and if there isn't, they shut down until the grid comes back within their operating parameters. SolarEdge could just as easily implement a proportional curtailment when the frequency varies above 60Hz so that it and the PowerWall could balance the supply of solar and demand from your home. It would be interesting to see what happens when a SunnyBoy inverter is put in the same position as your SolarEdge because the SunnyIsland and the SunnyBoy are supposed to happily interoperate in this situation without any auxiliary communication.

I agree. I think it was brilliant on Tesla's part to choose AC coupling for integration. This was only sane way I think they could integrate with a large number of power source configurations. They're also clearly aware of the current limitation evidenced by the effort to push me to three PowerWalls because of the size of my PV system.

arnold
 
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@Ulmo: Whoa, those are some meaty posts. Let me digest them and get back to you in detail. In meantime:

I just re-read this and realized how completely unclear your statement is to me. Please clarify. Also, it might make sense for you to read my message before clarification, since perhaps it would help for you to understand. I think it's unnecessary for you to manually operate anything in the Tesla Backup Gateway (the Gateway).

I do understand what you are saying. I was just saying the following. All automatic-transfer switches I've used either use AC solenoids (usually 120VAC going through solenoid keeping a spring-loaded solenoid switch in "grid" position and then when grid failed, springs close it to "backup") or else are actuated by a two 12VDC solenoids. They both have downsides and in my experience never work perfectly. The Tesla Backup Gateway probably works with one of these methods, but has the advantage of being able to use the battery to power the switching action so should be more reliable than relying on a 12V battery (which is conventionally also used to start the generator). But I believe the codes require all auto-transfer switches to have a manual override. I was just saying that it would be nice to have the manual override accessible. It is there on the Tesla Gateway but you need to remove some paneling to get to it. But this is not a biggie. Indeed if the switch works automatically 100% of the time, I would not need to use it. In fact I can repurpose my generator switch to be "manual" and added downstream for flexiblility if that's how I decide to configure it. And if I put backup generator before the powerwall (and grid is disconnected), I would be counting on the batteries to sync to its frequency and charge because as you say, there is no smart sync on a generator. In all my scenarios for generator use, the grid is always disconnected.

Regarding frequency shifting to shut down the inverters, yours is the first data that I've seen that confirms this. My other source for this operation is this blog and comments: Australian Tesla Powerwall 2 Review

Related to @miimura's comments, I think if there were a new inverter standard to proportionally throttle AC output based on frequency shift away from nominal, this might help in future battery-connected systems. Perhaps some SunnyBoy's work this way now. But I'm still confused about your tests and don't quite understand the conditions yet (they were stated in code-speak), but it seems there is a conflict between what was stated by @miimura and what happened in your system (i.e. regarding manually shutting down inverters to keep online). I need to read more and get back to you.

In conclusion though, after going through a lot of scenarios, I now think the issues above (and even some I've mentioned) are less important than just getting more direct and manual control of the battery charging and discharging. That is because power failures are hopefully not too common, and with solar we can still rely on the sun rising the next day hopefully, but in everyday operation we want to control charge/discharge for all our personal situations. I'll be talking to Tesla today hopefully.
 
You can fault Tesla for this rough integration all you want, but I don't think there is an industry standard for how to handle what Tesla is providing during power outages. Almost everybody that makes grid tied inverters assumes that there is a nearly infinite grid to push energy into and if there isn't, they shut down until the grid comes back within their operating parameters. SolarEdge could just as easily implement a proportional curtailment when the frequency varies above 60Hz so that it and the PowerWall could balance the supply of solar and demand from your home. It would be interesting to see what happens when a SunnyBoy inverter is put in the same position as your SolarEdge because the SunnyIsland and the SunnyBoy are supposed to happily interoperate in this situation without any auxiliary communication.
Then I can contact SolarEdge and ask for this to be a feature.

It will take me ~30 minutes to ~45 minutes to compose a proper two sentence or so request to SolarEdge, so I'll have to do it after work.

Something like "

Dear Solar Edge,​

I see that Tesla Backup Gateway has currently chosen to signal to the SolarEdge to reduce or stop its output by slowly raising frequency. Could you please implement a ratio between frequency being raised in excess of normal and how much you curtail your output? This may allow the Tesla Backup Gateway to use its last 1% of battery space to buffer variances between solar output and Home and Battery input (when the grid is down (or not accepting solar excess for some reason)). This feature would allow solar +battery to supply a home during power outage in a more clean way.

Sincerely,
Brad Allen
" Thoughts?
 
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Related to @miimura's comments, I think if there were a new inverter standard to proportionally throttle AC output based on frequency shift away from nominal, this might help in future battery-connected systems. Perhaps some SunnyBoy's work this way now.
That is indeed how SunnyBoy Inverters work. The SunnyIsland (like the Powerwall) will raise the frequency to tell the SunnyBoy Inverter to dial down the solar power.
 
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Thanks for confirming @drees. It seems the Powerwall is trying to use this battery-inverter-handshaking spec but there is no documentation of it in the Tesla manuals. Also I'm not sure if there is a single spec agreed upon between inverter manufacturers. See below.

Then I can contact SolarEdge and ask for this to be a feature.

So I have found at least 3 common inverters use this method of frequency-shift output curtailment. Not mine unfortunately (I have Aurora Power-One). @Ulmo, your SolarEdge inverter may already have this feature which they call Power Control Option. So you might want to see if there is a control setting in your inverter to turn on "P(f)". Here is a link about this operation citing three inverter manufacturers. AC-coupling Design | CivicSolar

SMA calls it Frequency-Shift Power Control. Here is a good summary of that spec from SMA. Let me know what you find for your inverter.

IMG_1148.jpg
 
Thanks for confirming @drees. It seems the Powerwall is trying to use this battery-inverter-handshaking spec but there is no documentation of it in the Tesla manuals. Also I'm not sure if there is a single spec agreed upon between inverter manufacturers. See below.
[...]

First an aside: It would be really nice to move this conversation off to a separate appropriately titled thread (I'm not sure what this has to do with the Powerwall 2 waiting list :)

In any case, I have a SolarEdge inverter and am waiting for my Powerwall 2 installation, so I'm quite interested in this topic.

I don't have access to my SolarEdge manual right now, but the one I found online: https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se-inverter-installation-guide.pdf
has a reference to Power Control on page 38.

That reference links to this application note: https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/application_note_power_control_configuration.pdf

From the introduction on this note:
"To improve grid stability, many electric utilities are introducing advanced grid limitations, requiring control of the active and reactive power of the inverter by various mechanisms. All SolarEdge inverters with CPU version 2.337 and later support these requirements. These inverters include default settings per country, based on the specific requirements in that country, as well as the ability to configure these settings (settings may have to be configured according to installation size or utility requirements). This document details the available power control configuration options in the SolarEdge inverters, and explains how to adjust these settings if such changes are required."

Somewhat promising on page 4:
"P(f) – Power Frequency: This is used when frequency-based power reduction is required. This defines a linear graph set by two points. The inverter de-rates power according to the defined graph, until the frequency reaches the trip value and the inverter disconnects (the trip point is preset per country therefore does not need to be defined as one of the two points)."
 
Thanks for confirming @drees. It seems the Powerwall is trying to use this battery-inverter-handshaking spec but there is no documentation of it in the Tesla manuals. Also I'm not sure if there is a single spec agreed upon between inverter manufacturers. See below.



So I have found at least 3 common inverters use this method of frequency-shift output curtailment. Not mine unfortunately (I have Aurora Power-One). @Ulmo, your SolarEdge inverter may already have this feature which they call Power Control Option. So you might want to see if there is a control setting in your inverter to turn on "P(f)". Here is a link about this operation citing three inverter manufacturers. AC-coupling Design | CivicSolar

SMA calls it Frequency-Shift Power Control. Here is a good summary of that spec from SMA. Let me know what you find for your inverter.

View attachment 244458
First an aside: It would be really nice to move this conversation off to a separate appropriately titled thread (I'm not sure what this has to do with the Powerwall 2 waiting list :)

In any case, I have a SolarEdge inverter and am waiting for my Powerwall 2 installation, so I'm quite interested in this topic.

I don't have access to my SolarEdge manual right now, but the one I found online: https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/se-inverter-installation-guide.pdf
has a reference to Power Control on page 38.

That reference links to this application note: https://www.solaredge.com/sites/default/files/application_note_power_control_configuration.pdf

From the introduction on this note:
"To improve grid stability, many electric utilities are introducing advanced grid limitations, requiring control of the active and reactive power of the inverter by various mechanisms. All SolarEdge inverters with CPU version 2.337 and later support these requirements. These inverters include default settings per country, based on the specific requirements in that country, as well as the ability to configure these settings (settings may have to be configured according to installation size or utility requirements). This document details the available power control configuration options in the SolarEdge inverters, and explains how to adjust these settings if such changes are required."

Somewhat promising on page 4:
"P(f) – Power Frequency: This is used when frequency-based power reduction is required. This defines a linear graph set by two points. The inverter de-rates power according to the defined graph, until the frequency reaches the trip value and the inverter disconnects (the trip point is preset per country therefore does not need to be defined as one of the two points)."
Great news!

I'm going to go try to configure this in the next few hours. I'll report back.

SolarEdge wrote an email to me saying they do not support Tesla PowerWall 2. I told them that they told me in email they are compatible with Tesla PowerWall 2 for backup purposes, but I believe we were discussing using it as a DC battery at the time connected on the DC side of the inverter. Now, it's on the A/C side. I did tell them that if they want to take an anti-monopoly proprietary stance that I'll be very vocal and public about that, and for them to get back to me on that. I also showed them the link to AC-coupling Design. I'm going to try P(f) within a few hours and get back to TMC here and to SolarEdge in email once I've done that.
 
Great news!

I'm going to go try to configure this in the next few hours. I'll report back.

SolarEdge wrote an email to me saying they do not support Tesla PowerWall 2. I told them that they told me in email they are compatible with Tesla PowerWall 2 for backup purposes, but I believe we were discussing using it as a DC battery at the time connected on the DC side of the inverter. Now, it's on the A/C side. I did tell them that if they want to take an anti-monopoly proprietary stance that I'll be very vocal and public about that, and for them to get back to me on that. I also showed them the link to AC-coupling Design. I'm going to try P(f) within a few hours and get back to TMC here and to SolarEdge in email once I've done that.
Support and compatibility are different. The technology is so new. Is SolarEdge saying they are not compatible or are they saying they are not sure how Tesla equipment works with their product and thus does not technically support it?
 
Great news!

I'm going to go try to configure this in the next few hours. I'll report back.

SolarEdge wrote an email to me saying they do not support Tesla PowerWall 2. I told them that they told me in email they are compatible with Tesla PowerWall 2 for backup purposes, but I believe we were discussing using it as a DC battery at the time connected on the DC side of the inverter. Now, it's on the A/C side. I did tell them that if they want to take an anti-monopoly proprietary stance that I'll be very vocal and public about that, and for them to get back to me on that. I also showed them the link to AC-coupling Design. I'm going to try P(f) within a few hours and get back to TMC here and to SolarEdge in email once I've done that.
Ok. P(f) on my SolarEdge before today was set to:
img_8209.jpeg


Note that according to this graph, it never reduced output; at 60.4Hz, it should be reduced to 91.6%; I'm not sure if this is of rated power, which would mean that never kicked in, or of present available power, in which case, it should have shown some reduction:
Screen Shot 2017-08-29 at 11.28.09 PM.png


Going by the chart at AC-coupling Design | CivicSolar, I first set these settings:

IMG_8210.JPG


But I quickly realized that it never got to 61Hz before dropping to 0% output; as soon as it got to 60.49Hz, it went to 0%. So, I set a more conservative range, instead, using the hint from the default range and something close to the bottom but obviously away from normal in the empirical range, and similar for the top (close to the top but obviously not at the top); I chose about 10 seconds and .1Hz as my sort of buffer, so 60.13Hz for 100% and 60.40Hz for 0%. I need to run this test again; I need to be here when it's sunny. I expect next weekend to offer that opportunity.

IMG_8212.JPG


This is a very simple thing for Tesla and SolarEdge to communicate to each other and customers about; a single page to each other and to customers to let them know what the usual config is. I don't know why they don't do this already. But, this is early years and months for PowerWall 2, so I suppose this is new territory.
 
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