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Powerwall at South Facing Location

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Long story short, Tesla's original design was to install 1 PW+ inside of my garage. We might turn the garage into living space so we don't want PW+ inside the garage.

I proposed 4 other alternative locations around my house with detailed pictures. After waiting for a few weeks, despite of my proposals, the new design has come back with them putting the PW+ along the south facing exterior wall of my garage. I'm in SoCal and summer will get hot especially in south facing area. Will this be a concern for PW+ performance?

I can either going back and forth with them again to change the PW + installation location but I'm afraid this will take another several more weeks or I can accept the location as it's and build a shade structure to shade the PW+.

Any suggestions? Thanks.
 
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Im not very technical with this stuff (although there are those here who are), but I dont think I would put a powerwall outside on a south facing structure unless there was shade. Perhaps try to escalate one of your desired locations again? It may take a bit longer, but you are talking about a (basically) permanent item you are affixing to your home and changing your homes "infrastructure".

You should get it as close to what you want as you can, so you are not wondering "what if" or being frustrated about it later.

I think, unless you already have some significant shade on the south side of your home where they want to put it, that I would push back fairly heavily on that if it were me.
 
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How perturbed will you be by south facing units, how long are you going to have the powerwalls, and how soon do you need them would seem to be the questions.

Yes being hotter is not ideal. Can you plant shrubs? Put an awning over it? A short privacy wall?
I didn't expect them to put it in this location. But if I'm stuck with it, I plan to build a shade structure to shade it.

As NEM 3 is approaching, I'm hesitating to go back and forth with them on the design as it will take another several weeks and delay the project completion and PTO.
 
See related thread re shade: anyone shade their south-facing inverters from the sun?

Mine is SE facing in AZ - so can regularly be in ambient temp of 110 degrees but put a share screen over inverter and Powerwall to help prevent direct sunlight impacting things and it really worked to reduce surface temps. Efficiency, based on ratio of Kw out v in is 89% and Powerwall is holding pretty steady at 13.4kWh of capacity so likely nothing to worry about. Think technical spec is <122 degrees.
 
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See related thread re shade: anyone shade their south-facing inverters from the sun?

Mine is SE facing in AZ - so can regularly be in ambient temp of 110 degrees but put a share screen over inverter and Powerwall to help prevent direct sunlight impacting things and it really worked to reduce surface temps. Efficiency, based on ratio of Kw out v in is 89% and Powerwall is holding pretty steady at 13.4kWh of capacity so likely nothing to worry about. Think technical spec is <122 degrees.
Thanks for sharing the real life experience. So, it's not end of the world by putting it in direct sun if it's shaded.
 
Tesla proposed to install the PW+ around my detached garage. There's an existing trenching between main house and detached garage. The conduit size is 1". Tesla is looking into this, they said they need to run 2 wires for PW and mentioned something like they need 1 conduit for each wire. Is it against the code to run two wires in the same conduit?

@wwhitney @Vines

Thanks.
 
Is it against the code to run two wires in the same conduit?

Thanks.

That's a bit of a loaded question there. The number of wires that can be run through a conduit is based on the size/type of conduit and gauge (size) of wire/wires running through the conduit. Then there's the fill/space requirement.

The NEC specifications are: One wire: maximum fill is 53% of the space inside a conduit. Two wires: maximum fill is 31% Three wires or more: maximum fill is 40% of the conduit's total available space.

Southwire has a good "conduit fill calculator" app in your friendly app store.

So the ultimate answer to your question is it depends on the type of conduit being used and the gauge of the wire/wires they want to run through your 1 inch conduit.
 
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Our main panel, meter and garage wall are on the SW wall of our house. We did not want our system installed there being we had no shade and we’re kind of inland so temps here can get in the 100-110s (hottest we’ve seen one year was 113F, and who know what with warming in future). We chose to add our equipment to our double-car garage’s furthest wall from the sun which actually is opposite a downstairs bedroom (haven’t had any noticeable noise inside house from the equipment—3 PW2, SE inverter and GW2, actually we hear noise from a water heater along that wall instead). Did run us extra to run conduit and wiring to the opposite side across garage ceiling but we had more available space on that side that let us stack two units and not a lot if otherwise useable wall space. No regrets installing our equipment there (PWs on floor and 2 of 3 stacked together).

Since you mentioned maybe turning your garage into habitable living space, I think you should check out if that’s feasible with permits before making that choice. Building codes could be an issue as well as unanticipated costs to bring up to code if its reasonably doable. As it is, electrical codes are being rewritten for California and, with fire districts giving input, placement of PWs is facing a number of outdoor location restrictions regarding distance from doorways, windows, etc. and even garage locations are facing restrictions in some cities’ fire jurisdictions already. Batteries don’t like excessive cold or heat and given the cost of the system we felt best with an interior install.
 
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Also recall that the Powerwall units themselves are bright enameled white - they're going to reflect a whole lot of that sunlight away. Add natural and/or artificial shade to that as others suggest, and I don't think you're going to have an issue. (Unless your ambient temperature is consistently above 122F, in which case, I'd argue you have other problems.)

Fruitcake
 
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Our main panel, meter and garage wall are on the SW wall of our house. We did not want our system installed there being we had no shade and we’re kind of inland so temps here can get in the 100-110s (hottest we’ve seen one year was 113F, and who know what with warming in future). We chose to add our equipment to our double-car garage’s furthest wall from the sun which actually is opposite a downstairs bedroom (haven’t had any noticeable noise inside house from the equipment—3 PW2, SE inverter and GW2, actually we hear noise from a water heater along that wall instead). Did run us extra to run conduit and wiring to the opposite side across garage ceiling but we had more available space on that side that let us stack two units and not a lot if otherwise useable wall space. No regrets installing our equipment there (PWs on floor and 2 of 3 stacked together).

Since you mentioned maybe turning your garage into habitable living space, I think you should check out if that’s feasible with permits before making that choice. Building codes could be an issue as well as unanticipated costs to bring up to code if its reasonably doable. As it is, electrical codes are being rewritten for California and, with fire districts giving input, placement of PWs is facing a number of outdoor location restrictions regarding distance from doorways, windows, etc. and even garage locations are facing restrictions in some cities’ fire jurisdictions already. Batteries don’t like excessive cold or heat and given the cost of the system we felt best with an interior install.
Indeed, I proposed 4 other locations and Tesla was saying due to fire code, they can't install it at the specified locations. They said the battery has to 5 ft away from doors, windows or the dwelling unit. Unfortunately due to this, I don't have much ideal area left for PW. Didn't expect it's such painful to get a PW location decided.
 
Also recall that the Powerwall units themselves are bright enameled white - they're going to reflect a whole lot of that sunlight away. Add natural and/or artificial shade to that as others suggest, and I don't think you're going to have an issue. (Unless your ambient temperature is consistently above 122F, in which case, I'd argue you have other problems.)

Fruitcake
The south facing wall gets quite hot especially in the summer. Yesterday, I measured with my thermometer gun, it read 134F. For sure I have to build some shade structure if this is the only possible location.

Do you have your PW in sunny area as well?
 
Don‘t leave Powerwall placement up to Tesla. It’s your house, you’re paying for the Powerwalls and you’ll live with the equipment for many years. A few more weeks delay shouldn’t be a factor.

They‘re recommending a south-facing placement either due to sheer incompetence or because it‘s the cheapest option for them, or both. I’d tell them asap that their recommended placement is unacceptable and that you will not allow the installation to proceed until a suitable location is found. Again, it’s your house not Tesla’s. They have a hard time understanding this concept so you really need to hammer home the fact that you will make, approve or reject all final decisions — not Tesla.

If you delay, they will file a permit with the location they want and revising the plans will take even longer. If that’s already happened, I still recommend patience on your part over compromise. The process, no matter how painful, only happens once. The outcome will last for at least a decade so get it right the first time. It’s not worth the time or money to relocate them later.

My Tesla solar + PW ordeal took over a year from the time I placed the order until receiving PTO (which just happened a week ago). The majority of the delay revolved around Powerwall placement. In my case, Tesla installed them in my garage, which was fine with me but it violated local fire codes. I discovered the code violation when I started digging around to figure out why nothing had happened with my project for months.

It turns out the original plans Tesla filed, and which were approved by the city prior to installation, placed the Powerwalls in my backyard. However, the install team decided that moving the Powerwalls behind my house was too much work (I’m in a hillside home so moving heavy equipment into my backyard is indeed nontrivial). The installers asked if they could install in the garage without mentioning that it was not the permitted location, that it would require filing a new permit application with revised plans, that it would require me to install bollards in front of the Powerwalls, that it would add another 3 month delay for permit approval and that the location was potentially in violation of (at that time) new fire codes. They were probably genuinely ignorant of the fire code issue, but they damn well understood all of the other pain that a non-permitted installation would cause me and yet chose to withhold that information so they could wrap up the installation in one day instead of two.

I finally got everything sorted out and forced them to relocate the Powerwalls to my (North-facing, mostly shaded) backyard location. They tried everything to avoid this, including asking me to wait ANOTHER FEW MONTHS so they could perform some demonstration to the Fire Marshall and get the fire codes changed! I wish them the best of luck with that but obviously I don’t want any part of it.

It was the most painful and outrageous experience I’ve ever had with any company, especially the part where they willfully withheld critical information and only started cooperating after I contacted the city and obtained all of the permit records myself. My point is that if I could do it all over again the only thing I would change is to take more control over the process sooner with the understanding that Tesla places their own interests far above the customer’s — at least during installation. I’m happy now that all the pain is over because the outcome is relatively ideal. The system works great, I got a fantastic price in retrospect and I’m much happier with more space in my garage and no bollards! Honestly, it’s kind of cool to see Powerwalls hanging on the garage wall but that got old after about two weeks and I just wanted the space back. Since the new (but originally planned) location gets very little sun it shouldn’t impact longevity very much, if at all. So I feel like I got the best of both worlds: out of sight but protected.

Anyway, best of luck to you. Stay strong, stay patient and don’t let Tesla decide where to install your equipment on your own property.
 
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Tesla proposed to install the PW+ around my detached garage. There's an existing trenching between main house and detached garage. The conduit size is 1". Tesla is looking into this, they said they need to run 2 wires for PW and mentioned something like they need 1 conduit for each wire. Is it against the code to run two wires in the same conduit?

@wwhitney @Vines

Thanks.
It is not against code to run multiple wires inside a single conduit but it does start affecting the ability to carry amperage. 4-6 wires cause deration to 80% and 7-9 wires 70%.

The actual calculation is more involved, but suffice to say a 1" PVC could carry (5) #6 wires or (7) #8 wires. Usually, the installers will understand this better than the homeowner, so they would make it work if they could. There is also a largeish low voltage cable that needs to go with the DC and/or AC conductors.
 
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Don‘t leave Powerwall placement up to Tesla. It’s your house, you’re paying for the Powerwalls and you’ll live with the equipment for many years. A few more weeks delay shouldn’t be a factor.

They‘re recommending a south-facing placement either due to sheer incompetence or because it‘s the cheapest option for them, or both. I’d tell them asap that their recommended placement is unacceptable and that you will not allow the installation to proceed until a suitable location is found. Again, it’s your house not Tesla’s. They have a hard time understanding this concept so you really need to hammer home the fact that you will make, approve or reject all final decisions — not Tesla.

If you delay, they will file a permit with the location they want and revising the plans will take even longer. If that’s already happened, I still recommend patience on your part over compromise. The process, no matter how painful, only happens once. The outcome will last for at least a decade so get it right the first time. It’s not worth the time or money to relocate them later.

My Tesla solar + PW ordeal took over a year from the time I placed the order until receiving PTO (which just happened a week ago). The majority of the delay revolved around Powerwall placement. In my case, Tesla installed them in my garage, which was fine with me but it violated local fire codes. I discovered the code violation when I started digging around to figure out why nothing had happened with my project for months.

It turns out the original plans Tesla filed, and which were approved by the city prior to installation, placed the Powerwalls in my backyard. However, the install team decided that moving the Powerwalls behind my house was too much work (I’m in a hillside home so moving heavy equipment into my backyard is indeed nontrivial). The installers asked if they could install in the garage without mentioning that it was not the permitted location, that it would require filing a new permit application with revised plans, that it would require me to install bollards in front of the Powerwalls, that it would add another 3 month delay for permit approval and that the location was potentially in violation of (at that time) new fire codes. They were probably genuinely ignorant of the fire code issue, but they damn well understood all of the other pain that a non-permitted installation would cause me and yet chose to withhold that information so they could wrap up the installation in one day instead of two.

I finally got everything sorted out and forced them to relocate the Powerwalls to my (North-facing, mostly shaded) backyard location. They tried everything to avoid this, including asking me to wait ANOTHER FEW MONTHS so they could perform some demonstration to the Fire Marshall and get the fire codes changed! I wish them the best of luck with that but obviously I don’t want any part of it.

It was the most painful and outrageous experience I’ve ever had with any company, especially the part where they willfully withheld critical information and only started cooperating after I contacted the city and obtained all of the permit records myself. My point is that if I could do it all over again the only thing I would change is to take more control over the process sooner with the understanding that Tesla places their own interests far above the customer’s — at least during installation. I’m happy now that all the pain is over because the outcome is relatively ideal. The system works great, I got a fantastic price in retrospect and I’m much happier with more space in my garage and no bollards! Honestly, it’s kind of cool to see Powerwalls hanging on the garage wall but that got old after about two weeks and I just wanted the space back. Since the new (but originally planned) location gets very little sun it shouldn’t impact longevity very much, if at all. So I feel like I got the best of both worlds: out of sight but protected.

Anyway, best of luck to you. Stay strong, stay patient and don’t let Tesla decide where to install your equipment on your own property.
Wow, thanks for sharing your real life experience. You sure went through more hassles than me for your power wall installation. You are right that this is a big investment and we are stuck for it for almost a decade.

My design still hasn't been submitted for permit yet, they are working at it. They originally put it in my garage but I told them no. There's almost 3 weeks to get to the current design.

Yea, it's indeed painful to call Tesla and listen to the on hold music everyday. My project would move much faster if the assigned advisor is helpful but he is useless and unresponsive. I have to deal with many advisors and most of them are not helpful, there are a few who are willing to help. I have to keep explaining the same thing over and over and it's get old.

I will tell them to move to other sides of my garage. But I'm checking with county regarding the fire codes. Does garage count as dwelling unit and does the 5 ft away from windows and doors still apply?
 
It is not against code to run multiple wires inside a single conduit but it does start affecting the ability to carry amperage. 4-6 wires cause deration to 80% and 7-9 wires 70%.

The actual calculation is more involved, but suffice to say a 1" PVC could carry (5) #6 wires or (7) #8 wires. Usually, the installers will understand this better than the homeowner, so they would make it work if they could. There is also a largeish low voltage cable that needs to go with the DC and/or AC conductors.
Thanks. I will leave it to them to figure out as it's beyond my knowledge.