PowerWall / PowerPack - We order it.

[spacexfan]

After closer consideration I decided to buy the Powerwall for my house in Florida. We don't have a natural gas service, so a generator is not an option. Solar is not an option due to hurricanes and low energy prices (12c per kWh). I will likely buy the 10kwh battery from solarcity for 7140$. It provides a reasonable backup solution for the most important systems in my house. Power outages usually last 1-5h after powerful t-storms. Furthermore it adds value to my house, so I don't see it as an investment to save money, just like people don't buy a natural gas generator to produce electricity for less money than the grid is offering.

Plus it looks awesome in my garage.

 

[Jeffgtx]

so, in other words, the powerwall is the solution for you because it is either that or nothing? which is why the >$7000 price installed is ok for you to swallow. that makes sense.

However, I think a lot of interest is going to fall off a cliff once these "authorized installer" quotes come around and people ask what happened to the $3,500 price you showed at the event?

 

[spacexfan]

so, in other words, the powerwall is the solution for you because it is either that or nothing? which is why the >$7000 price installed is ok for you to swallow. that makes sense.

However, I think a lot of interest is going to fall off a cliff once these "authorized installer" quotes come around and people ask what happened to the $3,500 price you showed at the event?

Yes, if I could I would buy a generator. And 3500$ is hardware only. 3640$ for inverter and installation is acually quite affordable if you think about it.

 

[nwdiver]

Solar is not an option due to hurricanes and low energy prices (12c per kWh).

I'm confused as to why that would rule out solar... Modules are designed to withstand 140mph winds; while possible with a hurricane VERY unlikely... anything strong enough to destroy your panels would also destroy your house unless you live in a bunker.

The systems I've helped install lately are running ~4c per kWh.

A small PV system would make you self-sufficient after a hurricane with a power wall instead of just a few hours of back-up power.

 

[spacexfan]

I'm confused as to why that would rule out solar... Modules are designed to withstand 140mph winds; while possible with a hurricane VERY unlikely... anything strong enough to destroy your panels would also destroy your house unless you live in a bunker.

The systems I've helped install lately are running ~4c per kWh.

A small PV system would make you self-sufficient after a hurricane with a power wall instead of just a few hours of back-up power.

They can withstand the winds, but not heavy debris. If there is a leak in the roof, I have to take them down at my expense and put them on again (happens more often than one would think). Solar inverters fail more often due to more frequent usage than a backup system. There are generally no long power outages when there is no hurricane. If there is a hurricane, people will be evacuated anyways. I will leave for sure voluntarily. In addition my insurance costs would rise if I have a solar system, especially if there would been a damage once, which they would cover (which I highly doubt). So nothing but problems and costs for no good reason. And no, 4c maybe after super heavy subsidies. Normally more like 50c per kwh.

 

[nwdiver]

They can withstand the winds, but not heavy debris.

Not true... Remember... solar panels are at an angle... very rarely will they be impacted directly by debris; Solar panels are as strong if not stronger than a car windshield. What percentage of cars have broken windshields after a hurricane?

And no, 4c maybe after super heavy subsidies. Normally more like 50c per kwh.

4c per kWh is without subsidies but also without labor (got a spare weekend?) You have a great resource there in Florida, Sun Electronics. You could probably build a system for <$1/w. Over the warrantied life of the system that's <$0.03/kWh... ~$0.02/kWh after subsidies.

Solar inverters fail more often due to more frequent usage than a backup system.

Solar inverters are DESIGNED for daily operation... they almost always carry a 10 year warranty vs ~5 for back-up inverters. We have inverters at work that have been operating 24/7 for ~20 years with no problem. Modern Power Electronics are an amazing thing.

So nothing but problems and costs for no good reason.

I've got 5 systems operating in 3 states (REALLY nasty weather in a couple)... no problems and no carbon.... what's not to love :wink:

 

[nativewolf]

Yes, if I could I would buy a generator. And 3500$ is hardware only. 3640$ for inverter and installation is acually quite affordable if you think about it.

So you buy a nice diesel generator....they work great. Think FEMA deploys NG generators?

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

So you buy a nice diesel generator....they work great. Think FEMA deploys NG generators?

Up here people usually use gasoline generators. I believe that FL has a law requiring gas stations to have back-up generators so there should be a fuel supply after a hurricane.

Powerwall is designed to re-use the solar inverter. Seems weird to install Powerwall without solar.

 

[nativewolf]

Up here people usually use gasoline generators. I believe that FL has a law requiring gas stations to have back-up generators so there should be a fuel supply after a hurricane.

Powerwall is designed to re-use the solar inverter. Seems weird to install Powerwall without solar.

In the frozen state of Maine I can believe gas is better, diesel would get difficult in really cold days (when you need it most). I

 

[ndabunka]

They can withstand the winds, but not heavy debris. If there is a leak in the roof, I have to take them down at my expense and put them on again (happens more often than one would think). Solar inverters fail more often due to more frequent usage than a backup system. There are generally no long power outages when there is no hurricane. If there is a hurricane, people will be evacuated anyways. I will leave for sure voluntarily. In addition my insurance costs would rise if I have a solar system, especially if there would been a damage once, which they would cover (which I highly doubt). So nothing but problems and costs for no good reason. And no, 4c maybe after super heavy subsidies. Normally more like 50c per kwh.

Nothing but "speculation and in-accurate assumptions" in this paragraph.

 

[rjcbox]

They can withstand the winds, but not heavy debris. If there is a leak in the roof, I have to take them down at my expense and put them on again (happens more often than one would think). Solar inverters fail more often due to more frequent usage than a backup system. There are generally no long power outages when there is no hurricane. If there is a hurricane, people will be evacuated anyways. I will leave for sure voluntarily. In addition my insurance costs would rise if I have a solar system, especially if there would been a damage once, which they would cover (which I highly doubt). So nothing but problems and costs for no good reason. And no, 4c maybe after super heavy subsidies. Normally more like 50c per kwh.

I had similar concerns before researching PV systems. The above claims are mostly incorrect:

-panels are rated & warrantied for certain windspeeds and hail impact
-companies that install should include warranty for the very rare situation that a roof penetration is not sealed appropriately; newer racking systems have minimal penetrations
-inverters have warranties for 10 years, maybe more nonadays
-my solar did not raise home ins rates, and did not increase property taxes (due to NJ law, YMMV)
-you can easily install a turnkey system for $4/watt installed, before the fed 30% tax rebate

10.8kW system, 14000 kWh/year, trace year-to-year degradation, ZERO problems

 

[dalalsid]

I had similar concerns before researching PV systems. The above claims are mostly incorrect:

-panels are rated & warrantied for certain windspeeds and hail impact
-companies that install should include warranty for the very rare situation that a roof penetration is not sealed appropriately; newer racking systems have minimal penetrations
-inverters have warranties for 10 years, maybe more nonadays
-my solar did not raise home ins rates, and did not increase property taxes (due to NJ law, YMMV)
-you can easily install a turnkey system for $4/watt installed, before the fed 30% tax rebate

10.8kW system, 14000 kWh/year, trace year-to-year degradation, ZERO problems

You can install a turnkey system for <$3/W. I paid $2.50/W (before rebate) for mine. My inverter is indoors in my basement to improve its lifespan. My grid electricity is <12c/kWh and payoff time is still reasonable - The Economics of Rooftop Solar and Viability In Virginia | Parchayi.com Personal Finance Simplified

The numbers on that page are based on PVWatts. My real production is a lot more than PVWatts estimates - Solar Power Production Tracker | S1dd.com

I just treat the panels as a long term illiquid investment with guaranteed returns of 8% or more.

 

[Config]

If there is a leak in the roof, I have to take them down at my expense and put them on again (happens more often than one would think).

First of all I think it would be foolish to install solar panels on an old roof. My roof was only 2 years old which was one of the reasons I've decided to go for it. What I've heard other people doing is getting a new roof and then combining that expense with the solar system to get the 30% Federal Energy Tax rebate.

In addition my insurance costs would rise if I have a solar system

Have you called and ask your insurance company? I've had a 3.25KW PV System installed 4 months and my insurance premium went up a whopping $2/month.