Problem with AP and CC in 2017 MS

[vescrig]

I'm having an issue with my 2017 Model S with FSD.

AP and CC are not available sometimes and SC is not able to diagnose the problem but they propose to change the ECU (AP computer), which is around 2.000€ and my car is out of garanty

In my opinion the problem is MCU related because when AP/CC are not available, I always get the next error in service mode "APP_w189_backupCameraStreamExit".

By the way, backup camera works fine in reverse, but I have noticed that when I select reverse, it my take up to two seconds to show the picture in the MCU.

When I drive the car for the first time in the day, AP/CC are never available, but for the rest of the day it works randomly. When AP is not available, I can see my car and the road line in the dashboard but not the cars around me.

I have also noticed that MCU2 sometimes runs slow, TuneIn is buffering more than usually and even I hear some pops coming from the speakers.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

 

[gillmj24]

I had the "autopilot and convenience features unavailable" issue with my AP1 car some mornings and not others.

Solution for me was to switch parking spots with the wife, so that my garage would block the early morning sun from hitting the camera by my rearview camera. AP1 only uses that 1 camera. Maybe the morning sun is hitting your rearview camera?

 

[gnomee2]

I have a 2017 MS with FSD. Sometime after my cameras were upgraded (Free) to the newer version for FSD, I received a software update and that's when it all began for me. I've had my car in and out of SC for last year here and there trying to sort it out and they finally gave up.

SC tried hard to diagnose. Always says the driver pillar camera is down. They replaced the camera and even ran a new wire to the camera. I took glass off and cleaned it (Yeah, I say they tried hard but it was hazy for sure. They didn't attempt that for whatever reason). That made it go from happening every other time I drove the car to only about 30% of the time.

The last time they had it they also told me the FSD computer needed to be replaced. That was installed in 2021 (Free) when I upgraded my MCU.

After that last visit, I decided to turn off FSD and see what happened. It completely broke anything to do with cameras. As soon as I got in the car every time no matter what it would show me the error and say that camera didn't work.

I performed a re-calibration and while it was recalibrating the error did not appear. Once done, came right back.

I then turned FSD back on and did another re-calibration.

I'm still stuck with the 30% chance it won't work it seems. I'm convinced its software related.

Does anyone know how it determines a failure? I'm guessing there is a process examining the video feed at interval to intervene if it has no signal or it's reduced by weather etc. I think the new cameras combined with some tweak to that process flags that camera somewhat erroneously since it works just fine most of the time.

I'd also like to know where the computer that the camera plugs into is actually located. Is it the MCU or is it behind the screen above steering wheel?

I have found no correlation to sunlight or temperature.

For now, I've decided to keep my eye out for threads like this and just wait and see. I won't be able to handle it being broken nonstop with an error on the screen but I'm hoping it becomes something they find a solution for prior to me just buying that part for no good reason. Maybe it is bad, and it heats up and randomly fails, if so, it should permanently fail eventually LOL.

 

[gillmj24]

so that my garage would block the early morning sun from hitting the camera by my rearview camera.

I meant rearview mirror not camera

 

[vescrig]

I had the "autopilot and convenience features unavailable" issue with my AP1 car some mornings and not others.

Solution for me was to switch parking spots with the wife, so that my garage would block the early morning sun from hitting the camera by my rearview camera. AP1 only uses that 1 camera. Maybe the morning sun is hitting your rearview camera?

It happens during day and nighttime, so I think it´s not weather or light conditions related. I tend to think it has something to do with the time the car has been idling, the longer the time the less likely is AP going to be available.

 

[vescrig]

I have a 2017 MS with FSD. Sometime after my cameras were upgraded (Free) to the newer version for FSD, I received a software update and that's when it all began for me. I've had my car in and out of SC for last year here and there trying to sort it out and they finally gave up.

SC tried hard to diagnose. Always says the driver pillar camera is down. They replaced the camera and even ran a new wire to the camera. I took glass off and cleaned it (Yeah, I say they tried hard but it was hazy for sure. They didn't attempt that for whatever reason). That made it go from happening every other time I drove the car to only about 30% of the time.

The last time they had it they also told me the FSD computer needed to be replaced. That was installed in 2021 (Free) when I upgraded my MCU.

After that last visit, I decided to turn off FSD and see what happened. It completely broke anything to do with cameras. As soon as I got in the car every time no matter what it would show me the error and say that camera didn't work.

I performed a re-calibration and while it was recalibrating the error did not appear. Once done, came right back.

I then turned FSD back on and did another re-calibration.

I'm still stuck with the 30% chance it won't work it seems. I'm convinced its software related.

Does anyone know how it determines a failure? I'm guessing there is a process examining the video feed at interval to intervene if it has no signal or it's reduced by weather etc. I think the new cameras combined with some tweak to that process flags that camera somewhat erroneously since it works just fine most of the time.

I'd also like to know where the computer that the camera plugs into is actually located. Is it the MCU or is it behind the screen above steering wheel?

I have found no correlation to sunlight or temperature.

For now, I've decided to keep my eye out for threads like this and just wait and see. I won't be able to handle it being broken nonstop with an error on the screen but I'm hoping it becomes something they find a solution for prior to me just buying that part for no good reason. Maybe it is bad, and it heats up and randomly fails, if so, it should permanently fail eventually LOL.

My problem is related with backup camera, but I have to enter in Service mode to read the error messages, because I don’t get any error message on the dashboard. Have you tried to go into Service mode?

AP computer is somewhere in the glovebox and every camera is connected to that computer, except the backup camera that is connected to the MCU and then data is transferred to AP computer. And there is where I think my car has the problem, because I can see the backup camera image when I go into reverse, but get the error that frames are dropped.
I have also noticed that when AP is not working, dashcam monitor doesn’t save backup camera images.

Still waiting for a reply from my SC since last Monday…
Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[gnomee2]

Yes, Service mode specifically tells me the same thing just about a different camera.

Maybe the module is dying after all.

 

[Art VandeIay]

I'm having an issue with my 2017 Model S with FSD.

AP and CC are not available sometimes and SC is not able to diagnose the problem but they propose to change the ECU (AP computer), which is around 2.000€ and my car is out of garanty

In my opinion the problem is MCU related because when AP/CC are not available, I always get the next error in service mode "APP_w189_backupCameraStreamExit".

By the way, backup camera works fine in reverse, but I have noticed that when I select reverse, it my take up to two seconds to show the picture in the MCU.

When I drive the car for the first time in the day, AP/CC are never available, but for the rest of the day it works randomly. When AP is not available, I can see my car and the road line in the dashboard but not the cars around me.

I have also noticed that MCU2 sometimes runs slow, TuneIn is buffering more than usually and even I hear some pops coming from the speakers.

Any help would be very much appreciated.


View attachment 993063View attachment 993062

Hola all the way to beautiful Spain!

I had the exact same issue and the exact same service mode error with my February built 2017 Model S 100D with FSD.

I have a rooted MCU2, so I decided to check out what was going on with the backup camera feed, and your suspicion is completely correct. It is, in fact, an MCU issue... to be more specific, it's a driver visualization memory cache issue.

I also had an incredible amount of latency with simple tasks for the MCU, like increasing the audio volume with the steering wheel scroll wheel or simply changing the radio station or just opening the Controls menu often took 2 or 3 seconds to execute the command.

I believe it's been an issue with all 2023.38 firmware branch software, so .6 .8 and .9 have this RAM memory saturation issue.

In order to tackle this situation, and considering the backup camera logs didn't show any dropped frames, I decided to do 3 things, which to be honest, I don't know if the cumulative actions helped with the issue, or it was just 1 action which made a difference.

First, I did an Autopilot Camera Recalibration.
Second, I did a "Full" Firmware Redeploy and
Third, I cleared all the MCU cache for both partitions. I must add that a few hours later after the third step, I received a software update to 2023.44.1, which I'm sure also helped since, according to the logs, the data cache the Autopilot ECU sends/stores in the MCU was greatly reduced.

It's been two days without any issue (so far) which is quite a relief, specially since the APP_w189_backupCameraStreamExit alert appeared on a daily basis, often with each drive.

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's completely fixed, but I'll keep an eye out during the coming days to see how everything develops.

 

[vescrig]

Hola all the way to beautiful Spain!

I had the exact same issue and the exact same service mode error with my February built 2017 Model S 100D with FSD.

I have a rooted MCU2, so I decided to check out what was going on with the backup camera feed, and your suspicion is completely correct. It is, in fact, an MCU issue... to be more specific, it's a driver visualization memory cache issue.

I also had an incredible amount of latency with simple tasks for the MCU, like increasing the audio volume with the steering wheel scroll wheel or simply changing the radio station or just opening the Controls menu often took 2 or 3 seconds to execute the command.

I believe it's been an issue with all 2023.38 firmware branch software, so .6 .8 and .9 have this RAM memory saturation issue.

In order to tackle this situation, and considering the backup camera logs didn't show any dropped frames, I decided to do 3 things, which to be honest, I don't know if the cumulative actions helped with the issue, or it was just 1 action which made a difference.

First, I did an Autopilot Camera Recalibration.
Second, I did a "Full" Firmware Redeploy and
Third, I cleared all the MCU cache for both partitions. I must add that a few hours later after the third step, I received a software update to 2023.44.1, which I'm sure also helped since, according to the logs, the data cache the Autopilot ECU sends/stores in the MCU was greatly reduced.

It's been two days without any issue (so far) which is quite a relief, specially since the APP_w189_backupCameraStreamExit alert appeared on a daily basis, often with each drive.

I wouldn't go as far as to say it's completely fixed, but I'll keep an eye out during the coming days to see how everything develops.

Thank you very much for your very useful info.
I have done Full camera recalibration and backup camera recalibration several times and it works for a while, but the problem comes back.
My MCU2 is not rooted, as I’m the first and only owner of the car, so I don’t know if I can perform the second and third steps of your solution.

I also installed software update 2023.44.1 yesterday but haven’t noticed any improvement.

 

[Art VandeIay]

I don’t know if I can perform the second and third steps of your solution

You can do number 2 from the Service Menu (which I know you can access just by seeing the pictures you uploaded to your first post in this thread) and number 3 you need Toolbox 3 and a Ethernet-Fakra cable.

 

[vescrig]

Which one should I choose? Full, CAN-ECU or DAS?

Thanks again for your support.

 

[Art VandeIay]

Which one should I choose? Full, CAN-ECU or DAS?

Second, I did a "Full" Firmware Redeploy