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Profound progress towards FSD
- Thread starter Grifon
- Start date
powertoold
Active Member
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
I can't take anyone seriously who calls everyone who disagrees with them a fanboy. If their arguments were sound, they wouldn't need to resort to petty name calling.
powertoold
Active Member
It's difficult to take Elon seriously about FSD as well, lol. That's why the FSD debate has been so heated. It'll be unprecedented if Tesla can go from the current state of AP to any convincing implementation of feature-complete / FSD (that would allow us to believe that FSD will be here soon as Elon said).
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I am not sure about that. 10 years is a long time in the tech world. Tech improves so quickly. I definitely think Waymo, Cruise or Mobileye could get to L5 in 10 years. They got all the fundamentals of autonomous driving done. They have highway autonomous driving done too. Now, they are focused on city autonomous driving because that still has some unsolved and challenging cases. They need to make autonomous driving more reliable and more intelligent with complex urban driving, especially with predicting behavior of other objects. I realize that will require lot of work but I think they could do it in 10 years. I think Tesla could do L5 in 10 years too but only if they add new sensors/hardware. Just my personal opinion, completely subjective of course.
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powertoold
Active Member
FSD will come quicker than you guys think. I trust Elon on this one. Personally, I'm very skeptical given my experience in software, tech, and Tesla ownership, but Elon and team know better than I or we.
DanCar
Active Member
Elon is driven, he has got resources, but the problem is bigger than he or you think. What is your definition of FSD? Coast to coast, no disengagements, but babysat? Suspect this is Elon's definition.
he seems to have different definitions, feature complete but driver paying attention to sleeping in car robo taxi.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Well, to be totally fair, Elon is describing "FSD" at different stages of reliability. So "feature complete but driver paying attention" is Elon's first stage of "FSD" and then he hopes "FSD" will become "sleeping in car robotaxi" later when it becomes more reliable.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Are you just trying to argue for argument's sake. What are you disagreeing with? I simply paraphrased what Elon said that feature complete would require driver supervision and then later when Tesla improves the reliability, we will be able to sleep in our cars. That's the same thing as the text you posted, that FSD will require driver supervision at first and then later after billions of miles of testing, it won't require driver supervision anymore. We are saying the same thing. What are you disagreeing with?
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mikes_fsd
Banned
First, FSD for Tesla is defined by Tesla very clearly. i.e. they did not list SAE Level 4 or 5 in their marketing of FSD ever.
Second, the fact that Tesla's implementation of FSD was from day 1 going to start with the supervised model...
Second, the fact that Tesla's implementation of FSD was from day 1 going to start with the supervised model...
DanCar
Active Member
mikes_fsd
Banned
lol, ok, so you bought FSD from a video?
No, you bought what is listed at the time of purchase! Just like selecting options on the car.
What you bough, and Tesla is legally responsible for is clearly listed.
What Elon is saying in the video goes beyond that.
If we are able to get the stuff on current hardware would be gravy compared to what you bought.
Some examples below.
- "almost all circumstances" -- the very first sentence.
- The future use of these features without supervision is dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers as demonstrated by billions of miles of experience,
- as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions.
DanCar
Active Member
Do you know what the law says? It some jurisdictions Tesla and Elon are liable for these statements. So to say that Tesla and Elon have never marketed Level 5 is incorrect.
mikes_fsd
Banned
They will have to deal with each legal jurisdiction just like they state in the last paragraph "regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions."
But still would be interesting to watch the argument of I bought, X listed at time of purchase but I want Y that was mentioned on a video by the CEO.
In some jurisdictions it will be "regulatory blacklisting/ban" hell Germany is already on that track.
mikes_fsd
Banned
Let me just get a clear picture:
For the ones that are active on this forum:
If Tesla releases all features of FSD (the middle paragraph is a good example of all features of FSD).
Every morning you do your commute, without any issues.
Then, one morning the car tells you that it cannot perform the drive because of inclement weather (it was pouring outside).
Would you say that Tesla has delivered what you bought?
For the ones that are active on this forum:
If Tesla releases all features of FSD (the middle paragraph is a good example of all features of FSD).
Every morning you do your commute, without any issues.
Then, one morning the car tells you that it cannot perform the drive because of inclement weather (it was pouring outside).
Would you say that Tesla has delivered what you bought?
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Yes because the top paragraph says "almost all circumstances". So Tesla is clear that FSD won't work in all circumstances.
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