Proposed Toll on Gardner and DVP in Canada's second biggest city!

[Drone Flyer]

Mayor Tory today is about to unveil a proposed toll on Toronto's Gardiner and DVP highways.
This would be a good time to exclude all electric vehicles from this proposal and it would be a great way to promote electric car usage on our highways and streets.
Of course he could propose a gas tax instead, but of course he won't.
For those who aren't really aware of Teslas and other electric only cars, this would really be a great way to attract their attention as well.
As was pointed out to me earlier today by a fellow member, imposing a toll on the highways would make a lot of motorists take city streets instead, this clogging up the side roads.

 

[vandacca]

Sign this petition if you agree that EVs should be exempt from this toll (similar to QEW/403 HOV lanes).

 

[skhenry81]

This is a horrible idea. It's designed to penalize people who live in the suburbs to subsidize people who take transit in the city.

 

[rypalmer]

This is a horrible idea. It's designed to penalize people who live in the suburbs to subsidize people who take transit in the city.

Why should the ratepayers of Toronto subsidize infrastructure for those who live in the rest of the GTA? A toll on either highway is not a penalty, it is fairness. And in the name of inherent scarcity, the right economic tool for the job to fund transit and combat congestion.

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

....second biggest city in Canada....?
It's the biggest (by population) in Canada, and the forth biggest in Canada/USA. City - not metropolitan population Toronto vs Chicago: Is Toronto really bigger than Chicago? Sort of

 

[Drone Flyer]

....second biggest city in Canada....?
It's the biggest (by population) in Canada, and the forth biggest in Canada/USA. City - not metropolitan population Toronto vs Chicago: Is Toronto really bigger than Chicago? Sort of

Yes but the city population, that's the downtown only core, is only about 700,000 people whereas Montreal's population is 1.2 million, making it Canada's largest city centre.
Montreal's metro population is 4.2 million and Vancouver's greater regional district comprising of all the suburbs is now close to 4 million and will soon pass Montreal in the greater population.

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

Yes but the city population, that's the downtown only core, is only about 700,000 people whereas Montreal's population is 1.2 million, making it Canada's largest city centre.
Montreal's metro population is 4.2 million and Vancouver's greater regional district comprising of all the suburbs is now close to 4 million and will soon pass Montreal in the greater population.

Sorry, but not true. In the old Metro Toronto the city core was about 700,000. The new city of Toronto amalgamated the 5 boroughs along with the old "city". The city of Toronto is now over 2,800,000, with the GTA metro area around 6,100,000. Read the article. Toronto has passed Chicago as a city. The Chicago Metro area is bigger.

From the City's website: Population of the City of Toronto

 

[Canuck]

Why should the ratepayers of Toronto subsidize infrastructure for those who live in the rest of the GTA?

Because that's what we should do as Canadians. We should use taxes to fund infrastructure for everyone, regardless of where we live in Canada, and not tolls. We replaced our Port Mann Bridge out here with a new toll bridge. It's the main artery into Vancouver from the suburbs, and part of the Trans Canada Highway. Families that live in the suburbs and work in the City, or anywhere from Vancouver to Burnaby to Coquitlam, who can't afford to live in those expensive area, have to pay an additional $6/day just to get to work and back. That adds up for many families that are already struggling and living paycheque to paycheque. That's not fair to me.

A toll on either highway is not a penalty, it is fairness.

We have a totally different view of fairness.

 

[ig_epower]

I am torn on this concept but here is my rub on why we shouldn't start the slippery slope of enacting a toll on those roads:

The normal tax collection methods related to cars seem to pay more than what is used to support infrastructure projects. The main issue I have is that gas tax, MTO licensing, etc go into the General Revenue for the government at a rate > than the road support costs. If the toll concept would create additional capacity on the DVP/Gardiner then I would be all for it. If nothing will change except to pay for simple road maintenance, I would suggest to take a hard look at where those existing auto tax dollars are going first.

How the toll will affect me personally is another matter.

 

[skhenry81]

Should Mississauga, Brampton, Markham and other surrounding cities now start charging Toronto residents tolls if the decide to enter their municipalities? Toronto should be lobbying the Ontario Government to re-classify both the DVP & The Gardiner to 400 series highways.

 

[kort677]

This is a horrible idea. It's designed to penalize people who live in the suburbs to subsidize people who take transit in the city.

this is how mass transit schemes that do not recover enough funds from it's users are funded in most parts of the world.

 

[kort677]

Why should the ratepayers of Toronto subsidize infrastructure for those who live in the rest of the GTA? A toll on either highway is not a penalty, it is fairness. And in the name of inherent scarcity, the right economic tool for the job to fund transit and combat congestion.

please explain the fairness aspect

 

[SmartElectric]

Should Mississauga, Brampton, Markham and other surrounding cities now start charging tolls

They already do! The primary way into Markham is a toll road!
Map & Toll Calculator | 407 ETR

 

[skhenry81]

That is not true. The 407 is a choice. You can choose to use it or you can use another way for free. Bottom line I am 100% against tolls! Politicians need to learn how to spend our tax dollars properly before they take it upon themselves to tax us even more.

 

[SmartElectric]

The 407 is vital to Markham in particular. I have no particular issue with tolls if that money is wisely spent to improve overall transportation as is the case with the 407.

 

[orangem]

Toronto should charge like London designating a zone (like downtown core) instead of dvp / gardiner. That's just inviting chaos into N/S artery neighbourhoods.

 

[sitter_k]

The 407 is vital to Markham in particular. I have no particular issue with tolls if that money is wisely spent to improve overall transportation as is the case with the 407.

407 is a private highway that doesn't belong to Markham.

 

[wayner]

Toronto should be lobbying the Ontario Government to re-classify both the DVP & The Gardiner to 400 series highways.

Didn't they go the other direction a few years ago. I could be wrong but I thought that the QEW (provincial responsibility) ends and the Gardiner (city responsibility) begins at the 427 but it used to be at the Humber River bridge (which used to be the funnest part of driving in Toronto if you were at high speed!).

 

[sitter_k]

Should Mississauga, Brampton, Markham and other surrounding cities now start charging Toronto residents tolls if the decide to enter their municipalities? Toronto should be lobbying the Ontario Government to re-classify both the DVP & The Gardiner to 400 series highways.

Road tolls will affect suburbs a lot more than Toronto. Toronto weilds a big stick and has chosen to use it. People have to go to Toronto for work and other commerce, the revenue it brings in will offset any economic loss I'm willing to bet. I don't believe all these people promising to boycott Toronto will have any large effect.

I'm not in favor of road tolls and I don't buy the why shouldn't the suburbs pay to use our infrastructure argument.
1) my provincial and federal tax dollars already go to support Toronto infrastructure, converse argument why should someone living in Sudbury pay for a subway line in Toronto?

2) as someone else stated Toronto should keep the road free because it's the right thing to do in Canada, we're not a society of user pays, if we were wouldn't just charging higher TTC fares be the answer to more transit? Of course not.

3) To bring this back to Tesla, why should the general public subsidize EVs? Shouldn't we just pay for it all if we want to drive expensive socially responsible cars? of course not.

4) city of Toronto has the lowest property tax by far, yet want to have the most amenities, now their idea is to take money from MOST people who can't vote in the city and have it benefit people who can. Political genius. Divide the population City vs. suburbs and your seen as fighting for the city. Why not try to align property tax with virtually every other city in the province and with reality.

 

[wayner]

Should Mississauga, Brampton, Markham and other surrounding cities now start charging Toronto residents tolls if the decide to enter their municipalities? Toronto should be lobbying the Ontario Government to re-classify both the DVP & The Gardiner to 400 series highways.

Do any of those other municipalities operate multi-lane controlled access highways that are similar in almost all aspects to the 400 series highways?

Personally I am in favour of more privately owned highways as at least there is an alignment of interests. The company that operates highway 407 benefits if they increase the number of cars on the highway and their executives have a very clear financial incentive to see that happen. Does anyone at the MTO get a bigger bonus based on volume of traffic on the 401? And you can see the material affects of this as the 407 does a better job of doing construction in off-peak times to minimize the traffic flow disruption.