PSEG and change to RLM time of use Billing

[Stretch2727]

nuts. Every time I call they tell me no solar with RLM. :-/

It is definitely possible with PSEG. I would get the RLM meter first. It takes 2-3 months of back and forth. They will ask for usage, tell you it is not worth it. I told them I am buying another electric car and I want is set up and they finally agreed. Then install solar.

I think it is the same meter RLM or RM as it reports hourly for solar with or without RLM. If you are on the RLM rate they will bill you RLM. They have the data hourly.

So they sent me the hourly interval data today. I see what they are doing. They are charging me for usage from the grid by hour, but they took my output to the grid out spread it across all 24 hours. Basically output per day/24 hours for each hour. The same number of production for each hour. So even though I am generating during peak they are applying to all hours of the day.

I think this is going to be a battle as I want it applied in the hour it is being generated, just as they are charging me. I may even have to go to the Board of Public Utilities as they are cheating customers.

 

[Ejl80]

It is definitely possible with PSEG. I would get the RLM meter first. It takes 2-3 months of back and forth. They will ask for usage, tell you it is not worth it. I told them I am buying another electric car and I want is set up and they finally agreed. Then install solar.

I think it is the same meter RLM or RM as it reports hourly for solar with or without RLM. If you are on the RLM rate they will bill you RLM. They have the data hourly.

So they sent me the hourly interval data today. I see what they are doing. They are charging me for usage from the grid by hour, but they took my output to the grid out spread it across all 24 hours. Basically output per day/24 hours for each hour. The same number of production for each hour. So even though I am generating during peak they are applying to all hours of the day.

I think this is going to be a battle as I want it applied in the hour it is being generated, just as they are charging me. I may even have to go to the Board of Public Utilities as they are cheating customers.

ah. I’ve had solar for years. Guess they won’t go to RLM once solar. Good luck!

 

[Stretch2727]

So I did a complaint on the NJ BPU website on my billing issue. I got a call from PSE&G the next day. Someone that seemed to understand solar and RLM rates well. He told me the meter they installed was not an RLM meter but a regular net meter. I was a little skeptical as it was calculating my usage hourly using RLM but the solar output during the day was averaged over the whole day/night. They changed the meter and now it is working as expected.

Happy this is working as expected as when I had the solar system installed I expected excess credits during the peak daytime hours. This way I really don't need to worry about when I charge the cars or run the AC etc.

For anyone that was told no with solar and the RLM (Time of use) rates I would do a NJ BPU complaint. They seem to take these seriously.

PSEG made me go through a maze to get the RLM rate but it is possible. They will tell you all kinds of excuses including you do not use enough electricity to qualify etc. This is a just a wall of BS to stop people getting something that is very advantageous if you have an electric car. It is even better with solar and an electric car as I only expect to pay the off peak rate which is about $0.07 per Kwh. The solar takes care of all the peak usage. Without solar and RLM my electric bill would be about $230 a month. With Solar and RLM I expect it will be about $30 per month. This is for running 2 electric cars about 1500 miles a month and the house with central AC.

 

[jcoop]

Without solar and RLM my electric bill would be about $230 a month. With Solar and RLM I expect it will be about $30 per month. This is for running 2 electric cars about 1500 miles a month and the house with central AC.

@Stretch2727: This is exactly my situation. I left a v/m at 609-291-5239 for the Solar Billing people to call me back about RLM. Is this who you contacted, or someone else?

Also, were you able to change your anniversary true-up date? What month the best date to pick for that based on your experience? My system was installed Sep 2019, and I've heard March is a good month for that. Thanks.

 

[QuietRiot]

Stretch2727,

thanks for all this information. I have solar and just got my model 3. I also have a pool so I’m looking for options and your scenario is quite interesting. I guess I should wait and see what my bill does, but I drive quite a bit and I tend to drive it like I stole it.

 

[Stretch2727]

@Stretch2727: This is exactly my situation. I left a v/m at 609-291-5239 for the Solar Billing people to call me back about RLM. Is this who you contacted, or someone else?

Also, were you able to change your anniversary true-up date? What month the best date to pick for that based on your experience? My system was installed Sep 2019, and I've heard March is a good month for that. Thanks.

I found the PSEG solar billing team quite useless. I did send them a formal complaint but then did the PUC complaint after waiting 1 month. The key takeaway is you can have the time of use RLM rate and solar at the same time. Don't let them stop you. It is even on the PSEG website as available. Private message me if you want more information on contacts.

I have only had the system since July 2019 so have not adjusted the true up date. Likely I will move to Oct. With my new meter I am accruing peak credits to use over the summer with daytime AC.

 

[Tabarnouche]

I found the PSEG solar billing team quite useless. I did send them a formal complaint but then did the PUC complaint after waiting 1 month. The key takeaway is you can have the time of use RLM rate and solar at the same time. Don't let them stop you. It is even on the PSEG website as available. Private message me if you want more information on contacts.

I have only had the system since July 2019 so have not adjusted the true up date. Likely I will move to Oct. With my new meter I am accruing peak credits to use over the summer with daytime AC.

I was thinking of changing to an October true-up date as well but was wondering if February would be better. That's when I start accumulating a lot of credits that I can use up mostly in the summer for a/c. By the end of winter, I'm almost back to zero in terms of credits. Thoughts?

 

[Ejl80]

What happens at true-up? Do they credit you for the value of the kWh they received? is it at wholesale or retail rates? Can you elect to carry over any credits?

 

[EdisonFire]

I think many who pursue PSEG for time of use rates are spinning their wheels (Tesla metaphor) as the off-peak cost reduction is so measly as to not be worth it. Plus the cost of trying to avoid running the home A/C during hot, humid summers until 7 or 8PM is miserable. Last I checked, the price per KwH drops from .14 cents (year round, no TOU) to .9 cents.(after 8PM). But the cost for using KwH during the daytime, hottest hours jumps from .14 cents (year round) to almost .30/KwH

 

[Syd]

Powerwall (even without solar if need be) to time shift the curve. (charge it overnight, discharge it during high rate period)

 

[Ejl80]

I think many who pursue PSEG for time of use rates are spinning their wheels (Tesla metaphor) as the off-peak cost reduction is so measly as to not be worth it. Plus the cost of trying to avoid running the home A/C during hot, humid summers until 7 or 8PM is miserable. Last I checked, the price per KwH drops from .14 cents (year round, no TOU) to .9 cents.(after 8PM). But the cost for using KwH during the daytime, hottest hours jumps from .14 cents (year round) to almost .30/KwH

Except weekends are off peak too which is when most of us need the ac

 

[Stretch2727]

I think many who pursue PSEG for time of use rates are spinning their wheels (Tesla metaphor) as the off-peak cost reduction is so measly as to not be worth it. Plus the cost of trying to avoid running the home A/C during hot, humid summers until 7 or 8PM is miserable. Last I checked, the price per KwH drops from .14 cents (year round, no TOU) to .9 cents.(after 8PM). But the cost for using KwH during the daytime, hottest hours jumps from .14 cents (year round) to almost .30/KwH

Honestly this is not what I have seen. Off peak is $0.06-0.08. Peak is 0.22-0.26 depending on summer winter. If you have an electric car and can shift to off peak you can save a lot. Here is my experience.


Standard Rates with electric cars - $230/month. Average 1000KwH Month.
RLM (Time of Use) - $125/month 200Kwh Peak/ 800kwH Offpeak. The cars were using about 400-500kwH per month all off peak.
RLM and Solar -$30/month. 0 peak/ 300KwH - I have actually started charging during peak as I have excess peak credits so this reduced my off peak usage.

Time of use actually saved me more than solar and costs nothing except the extra $10/month service fee. All the info above includes the monthly service fee.

 

[bart513]

Honestly this is not what I have seen. Off peak is $0.06-0.08. Peak is 0.22-0.26 depending on summer winter. If you have an electric car and can shift to off peak you can save a lot. Here is my experience.


Standard Rates with electric cars - $230/month. Average 1000KwH Month.
RLM (Time of Use) - $125/month 200Kwh Peak/ 800kwH Offpeak. The cars were using about 400-500kwH per month all off peak.
RLM and Solar -$30/month. 0 peak/ 300KwH - I have actually started charging during peak as I have excess peak credits so this reduced my off peak usage.

Time of use actually saved me more than solar and costs nothing except the extra $10/month service fee. All the info above includes the monthly service fee.

What about JCPL in NJ. Any different than PSEG?

 

[Stretch2727]

What about JCPL in NJ. Any different than PSEG?

https://www.firstenergycorp.com/con...nserts/9126-JCPL_ResidentSerElecRates0719.pdf

Similar but slightly different.

The peak number of hours are less 8am-8pm so just 12 hours a day M-F. 60 hours a week versus 72 hours with PSEG.
The service fee penalty is lower only approx $2 more versus PSEG which charges $10 more.
The rates do not have as much difference(Peak to Off Peak) as PSEG.

I attached a spreadsheet with different scenarios for both companies. JCPL is not as attractive as PSEG but the rates are lower to start. This is all based 1000 KwH per month and assuming an electric car where you can shift usage. Everyones scenario will be a little different. I average/ball parked the rates as there are minor differences summer/winter/usage. If you want the spread sheet to do your own estimate, private message me.

TOU=Time of use--> cheaper rates off peak
RLM= PSEG TOU Rate
RT=JCPL TOU Rate

 

[Stretch2727]

@Stretch2727: This is exactly my situation. I left a v/m at 609-291-5239 for the Solar Billing people to call me back about RLM. Is this who you contacted, or someone else?

Also, were you able to change your anniversary true-up date? What month the best date to pick for that based on your experience? My system was installed Sep 2019, and I've heard March is a good month for that. Thanks.

I shifted to March as well. It was a simple email to the solar billing office and they changed it. [email protected]. It depends on the usage pattern so if you don't have an electric heat source Sept/Oct maybe better after the AC season. You don't want to have any credits left on the true up month as they only give you a credit at wholesale rate.

I have a heat pump as well as normal gas heat. So I should build peak credits through the fall and I can run the heat pump on mild days in the winter to use up the peak credits. The thermostat does this automatically based on an outside temp set point. The heat pump is cheaper than gas heat with off peak rates in mild temps. This will lower my natural gas usage as well.

I think I am PSEG's worst nightmare as a customer.

 

[bart513]

I'm not as educated as the 2 of you about this so I'm trying to follow along. I don't think I can choose between PSEG and JCPL. I already have 3 power walls installed for the past year and Tesla is coming out Monday to do a survey. The person who is my Tesla solar rep feels that I may be able to do fine with the smaller 8.16 kW system. I guess I'll find out more when they come on Monday to do their survey. It sounds like the true up date is important?

 

[Stretch2727]

I'm not as educated as the 2 of you about this so I'm trying to follow along. I don't think I can choose between PSEG and JCPL. I already have 3 power walls installed for the past year and Tesla is coming out Monday to do a survey. The person who is my Tesla solar rep feels that I may be able to do fine with the smaller 8.16 kW system. I guess I'll find out more when they come on Monday to do their survey. It sounds like the true up date is important?

-Correct cannot choose the electric company. Depends on where you live. There are 3rd party electric generators in NJ. Not the utility that handles the supply and billing. These generally do not save much in NJ.

-I would look at your usage for the last year. The system is limited to 80% of your current usage. They should be able to tell you how much the 8.16 system will supply in a year based on placement, shading, etc. Roughly this system should be able to produce 10.5KwH in one year.

-The true up is month is best to set after your highest usage months so that the credits you have will be at their lowest.

 

[bart513]

-Correct cannot choose the electric company. Depends on where you live. There are 3rd party electric generators in NJ. Not the utility that handles the supply and billing. These generally do not save much in NJ.

-I would look at your usage for the last year. The system is limited to 80% of your current usage. They should be able to tell you how much the 8.16 system will supply in a year based on placement, shading, etc. Roughly this system should be able to produce 10.5KwH in one year.

-The true up is month is best to set after your highest usage months so that the credits you have will be at their lowest.

Thank you so much.

 

[Devy12345]

So I did a complaint on the NJ BPU website on my billing issue. I got a call from PSE&G the next day. Someone that seemed to understand solar and RLM rates well. He told me the meter they installed was not an RLM meter but a regular net meter. I was a little skeptical as it was calculating my usage hourly using RLM but the solar output during the day was averaged over the whole day/night. They changed the meter and now it is working as expected.

Happy this is working as expected as when I had the solar system installed I expected excess credits during the peak daytime hours. This way I really don't need to worry about when I charge the cars or run the AC etc.

For anyone that was told no with solar and the RLM (Time of use) rates I would do a NJ BPU complaint. They seem to take these seriously.

PSEG made me go through a maze to get the RLM rate but it is possible. They will tell you all kinds of excuses including you do not use enough electricity to qualify etc. This is a just a wall of BS to stop people getting something that is very advantageous if you have an electric car. It is even better with solar and an electric car as I only expect to pay the off peak rate which is about $0.07 per Kwh. The solar takes care of all the peak usage. Without solar and RLM my electric bill would be about $230 a month. With Solar and RLM I expect it will be about $30 per month. This is for running 2 electric cars about 1500 miles a month and the house with central AC.

 

[Devy12345]

Hello Stretch2727, I have been driving a Tesla for 4 years now, 3 with an X and now a Y. My yearly consumption is about 27000 kwh out of which probably 17000 kwh is used at night to charge the car-so off peak. I recently put a 20KW solar system and now I am thinking about switching to RLM. Today while browsing the PSE&G site, I saw this in the Solar Power and Net metering section under FAQs for Time of Use.
"Each Time-of-Use period has its own Energy Credit Bank. Excess generation during a "Peak" period is credited to the "Peak" period energy bank, and can only offset future "Peak" period usage. Similar energy banks are created for other periods. “Peak” and “Off Peak” energy banks cannot be combined."
Does this mean that the energy produced during the daytime-peak period(almost most of it) cannot be used for charging my car at night when it is offpeak? This in my case is 2/3rd of my usage.
Is this what you mentioned in an earlier post that NJBPU does not allow this?