Purchasing Model 3 in March with EAP, free HW3 upgrade or not?

[AgileMike]

I'm looking at purchasing a Model 3 with EAP for delivery mid-March. Does it get automatically upgraded to HW3 at some point in 2019? Or does than only happen to buyers who paid for FSD? I don't see the option to purchase FSD on the car configuration on Tesla's website.

If it doesn't get upgraded to HW3 for free, I'll just wait until mid-summer to purchase with HW3 included. How likely is HW3 to be available mid summer this year?

Sorry for all the questions, very new to Teslas....

 

[Knightshade]

I'm looking at purchasing a Model 3 with EAP for delivery mid-March. Does it get automatically upgraded to HW3 at some point in 2019? Or does than only happen to buyers who paid for FSD? I don't see the option to purchase FSD on the car configuration on Tesla's website.

If it doesn't get upgraded to HW3 for free, I'll just wait until mid-summer to purchase with HW3 included. How likely is HW3 to be available mid summer this year?

Sorry for all the questions, very new to Teslas....

You only get the HW3 upgrade if you buy FSD (since HW3 is only needed for FSD).

It's not sold on the website, but it is still available "off menu" if you ask for it.

 

[Dana1]

You only get the HW3 upgrade if you buy FSD (since HW3 is only needed for FSD).

It's not sold on the website, but it is still available "off menu" if you ask for it.

Ok, I’ll bite. I have FSD, EAP, NoA, PPF... but have no idea what HW3 is...

 

[TT97]

Ok, I’ll bite. I have FSD, EAP, NoA, PPF... but have no idea what HW3 is...

Hardware 3 (aka AP3). Currently we are at 2.5. new chip for FSD.

Tesla owners who ordered Full Self-Driving will get free HW3 upgrade, says Elon Musk

 

[JBare]

If youycan I would wait it out until Q2 since you'll end up with the same tax credit. Over the next few weeks I think we'll hear news on this and my thought is once HW3 is out it will be standard at some point on all Teslas

 

[Knightshade]

If youycan I would wait it out until Q2 since you'll end up with the same tax credit. Over the next few weeks I think we'll hear news on this and my thought is once HW3 is out it will be standard at some point on all Teslas

"when it's out" is when it'll be standard on all new teslas.

Since the part cost is the same it makes no sense for them to build a single tesla with HW2.x once HW3 is available in quantity.

 

[Dana1]

Hardware 3 (aka AP3). Currently we are at 2.5. new chip for FSD.

Tesla owners who ordered Full Self-Driving will get free HW3 upgrade, says Elon Musk

Lol, ok, AP3 I understand. Using (more) common acronyms rather than a 2nd acronym for the same thing will keep my AL (acronym list) shorter.

Arguments can be made for both sides of this but I bought FSD because I expect hardware changes and felt it would be cheaper to buy FSD now than when it’s a full reality or the cost of the hardware is known. I’ve bought it so it’s Tesla’s problem to make it work. The risk is if it never works or regulation doesn’t allow it I made a bad bet. But I feel those two risks are minimal.

I don’t think it’ll be standard any time soon. Sure, seat belts were optional in the 50s and 60s, eventually became standard in some models and required by regulation (1968). But until regulation kicks in its a great profit driver. I definitely don’t see it being “standard” in the next few years unless you buy a very expensive model (eg, Ludicrous) that has the cost baked in. Cruise control was in Rolls Royce Silver Shadows in 1975...not sure when it became more or less standard in all cars but it was a while later. My 1999 Jeep didn’t have it but the more expensive trim levels did. I’m hoping I’m a good guesser.

 

[Knightshade]

Lol, ok, AP3 I understand. Using (more) common acronyms rather than a 2nd acronym for the same thing will keep my AL (acronym list) shorter.

Calling it AP3 doesn't make any actual sense though- since Tesla has specifically told us the new HW is only needed for FSD, not AP.

Cruise control was in Rolls Royce Silver Shadows in 1975...not sure when it became more or less standard in all cars but it was a while later. My 1999 Jeep didn’t have it but the more expensive trim levels did. I’m hoping I’m a good guesser.

FWIW the first car with cruise control (as we'd think of it) was the 1958 Imperial... I had cruise control on my 1973 Chevy Monte Carlo (GM called it Cruise-O-Matic because 70s!) and the option was fairly widely available by then on a lot of cars (and increasingly popular as gas prices soared)

 

[Mikeat00]

I’m debating the same thing. I don’t believe FSD is going to be wildly available anytime soon or within the life span of this car. On the other hand I don’t want the car to have old technology two months after it’s bought. Especially, if EAP performs better with the newer processor.

Why pay 3k to get something that will be included In a few months?

 

[AgileMike]

I called today and talked to both corporate Tesla and an advisor in the Bellevue, WA store. Both told me the same thing. If FSD is placed with the order, the car will be upgraded to HW3 free of charge. They removed FSD from the configurator to reduce the number of HW3 upgrades they have to perform. You have to place the order online, and call to add FSD. I placed order online while on phone with advisor, and he added FSD right then. So excited to get the car!!!

 

[Mikeat00]

Did they happen to provide any clues to when to expect HW3?

 

[sperkin]

It doesn’t matter when you get HW3. It’s the same price. You can pay $3,000 now or $5,000 later.

Either way, HW3 will not be FSD. It’s a long way to go. Once you start seeing Model 3 driving along SF city by itself then there’s a chance it’ll come out. Even now, Cruise and Google can’t do this. I have seen many Bolts with the Cruise system doing dumb things like slamming on the brakes for no reason or get stuck near bike lanes. Google can’t make unprotected left turns. It’s too chicken to hit the gaps.

 

[Knightshade]

It doesn’t matter when you get HW3. It’s the same price. You can pay $3,000 now or $5,000 later.

Either way, HW3 will not be FSD. It’s a long way to go. Once you start seeing Model 3 driving along SF city by itself then there’s a chance it’ll come out. Even now, Cruise and Google can’t do this. I have seen many Bolts with the Cruise system doing dumb things like slamming on the brakes for no reason or get stuck near bike lanes. Google can’t make unprotected left turns. It’s too chicken to hit the gaps.

L5 is a long way away.

The first FSD-only features, which will require FSD and HW3, should be out later this year (roughly mid this year based the info in the last earnings call)

 

[DdotRoq]

High possibility that once HW3 is available, Model 3's will still be built using HW2.5 until current inventory is exhausted (or unless you specifically order FSD, which may be called something else, maybe Semi-Autonomous Driving or similar).

Also - once HW3 is out and FSD features start rolling in, expect the cost of FSD to be more in line with what others are speculating: $5k-$7k. For example, when Autopilot was available for preorder in 2015, the cost was $2,500, and it's since doubled.

 

[Knightshade]

High possibility that once HW3 is available, Model 3's will still be built using HW2.5 until current inventory is exhausted (or unless you specifically order FSD, which may be called something else, maybe Semi-Autonomous Driving or similar).

Once it's production qualified, why would Tesla begin volume production on HW3 without lining up an exhaustion of 2.5 parts to coincide with that? That's some supply-chain 101 stuff. Also allows for an easy cut-off date so you know cars produced before/after date X have a specific config.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Once it's production qualified, why would Tesla begin volume production on HW3 without lining up an exhaustion of 2.5 parts to coincide with that? That's some supply-chain 101 stuff. Also allows for an easy cut-off date so you know cars produced before/after date X have a specific config.

For the same reason they don't release software updates to everyone at once. It's best to make sure it really works before you unleash it on the world.

 

[mswlogo]

I called today and talked to both corporate Tesla and an advisor in the Bellevue, WA store. Both told me the same thing. If FSD is placed with the order, the car will be upgraded to HW3 free of charge. They removed FSD from the configurator to reduce the number of HW3 upgrades they have to perform. You have to place the order online, and call to add FSD. I placed order online while on phone with advisor, and he added FSD right then. So excited to get the car!!!

That’s really good to hear. It makes more sense too. It would minimize upgrades and confusion. It sounds like the the original plan when it was on the website has not changed. And it’s nice to hear confirmation on the new hardware would apply if our purchased.

However, I think some customers will be pissed it wasn’t an obvious option once it’s released. They might have considered it, asked about it, if they were informed.

You were smart to do what you did.

 

[Knightshade]

For the same reason they don't release software updates to everyone at once. It's best to make sure it really works before you unleash it on the world.

They've already been doing HW qualification testing on small numbers of both newly built cars and retrofitting/upgrading existing ones for months now (this was mentioned on the investor call).


And SW and HW rollouts really aren't the same thing... SW is a continuous upgrade cycle- any given car can be on various versions of the SW, regardless of build date, at various times, and that's expected.

Significant HW changes in manufacturing generally have specific cutoff dates for switch overs for a slew of reasons in factory-process, supply chain, parts catalog/ordering logistics, and repair reasons.

AFAIK every previous Tesla HW change has been a hard cutover date for those sorts of reasons (ie "all cars before date X have part A, all cars after date X have part B")- no reason at all to think it'd be any different for HW3.

 

[steve in socal]

Just posted this in another thread so please excuse the duplication. Just saw the following on the owners site talking about software and features etc...

“Blindspot Monitoring
To improve safety and increase confidence when changing lanes, cars with Full Self-Driving hardware will now display a red lane line when your turn signal is engaged and a car or obstacle is detected in your target lane. There is no change to the display for cars without Full Self-Driving hardware.”

My new Model 3 (delivered in Jan 19) has the red lane line functionality... don’t know how this squares with the previous public statements and forum tin hat conjecture...

 

[Knightshade]

Just posted this in another thread so please excuse the duplication. Just saw the following on the owners site talking about software and features etc...

“Blindspot Monitoring
To improve safety and increase confidence when changing lanes, cars with Full Self-Driving hardware will now display a red lane line when your turn signal is engaged and a car or obstacle is detected in your target lane. There is no change to the display for cars without Full Self-Driving hardware.”

My new Model 3 (delivered in Jan 19) has the red lane line functionality... don’t know how this squares with the previous public statements and forum tin hat conjecture...

Literally every model 3 ever made has the FSD HW they're talking about for that feature... the "no change" bit is for AP1 cars they stopped making in ~Oct 2016