Vendor Questions people stop and ask about my TESLA (or, why charging takes zero time)

[MTSN]

The points were a bit belabored, but I get what you're saying. The bottom line is for the vast majority and the vast majority of the time, all Teslas provide plenty of range to avoid anxiety. The real "trouble" is road tripping. In an ICE vehicle, you don't have to plan much at all to hit the road, and it does not matter how you slice it - it's easier, faster and more convenient to put gas or diesel in a vehicle on a road trip. There is no question - zero, zilch, nada - an electric car is currently more work to road trip.

It's funny when people say "oh I'm not charging - I'm just enjoying lunch while my car charges". It's silly to think that every stop on a road trip will align perfectly when you want to have a meal or a bathroom break. There are a lot of variables there too - there could be a zero charging stalls open, there could be a truck blocking access to the charging stall, there could be so many people charging the rates slow down dramatically, etc. etc. You may roll into a charger at 10pm, and there are no restaurants open or anything to do forcing you to just sit around and wait.

I recently did a 2,100 mile road trip from New Hampshire to Colorado in a diesel Sprinter van, and I did it in just over 2 days (left Nashua, NH on 4pm Thursday and was in Denver, CO by 9pm on Saturday). With the mpg and large fuel tank, I only stopped for diesel 3 times, and each stop was for less than 5 minutes. I bought latex gloves by the way to avoid the nasty stink of diesel on my hands and was careful to not spill any or get fumes inside the van which is also a camper, so there's even more incentive to keep it clean. I likely spent less than 20 minutes in the process of refueling before getting back on the road over 2,100 miles, but if I had driven the Tesla it would have been a MUCH longer trip with MANY more stops. Is that a bad thing? For some yes, for some no. For me, the goal was to make it home as fast as possible, and there is no question this way was significantly faster, putting me home a day earlier even, than if I had taken my Model 3. If the goal is a leisurely trip to see as much of the country as possible, it would have been just fine in the Tesla.

We are all ambassadors of the Tesla brand and electric cars in general, and in order for people to take our opinions seriously, there needs to be a balance of the good and the bad. I personally think my stealth Model 3 Performance for $49.9k is likely the best value of any car ever made. I think Tesla has literally created a new path forward for the car to exist in the future. I am totally in love with my Tesla. But, it's important to note there are some areas in which it is more work and can be more annoying than an ICE car, and road trips are the prime example. I have personally convinced at least 6 people to buy Teslas due to just simply explaining my experience (both good and bad), highlighting the facts, and then of course letting people drive my car if they want or go for a test ride. I have never given out my referral code and don't plan to. I don't want anyone to think I have anything to gain from "selling" them on a Tesla, and if after learning about the car and driving it they're not convinced, that's totally fine. That has yet to happen however - literally everyone I've showed the car to absolutely loves it and either buys one or wants to buy one. There's no need to try to convince people there are no shortcomings because there is nothing in life without shortcomings.

 

[Kevy Baby]

Let's discount for the moment the fact that you can refuel an EV at home overnight

You completely lost me with this line. When the vast majority of the people charge at home (or work), saying this is tantamount to saying "Let's discount for the moment the fact that a jet airplane flies at 500-600 MPH" when discussing the merits of air travel coast-to-coast

 

[DopeGhoti]

I feel it's fair to, for the sake of discussion, temporarily discount a significant but irrelevant point when the main thrust of the thesis presented is about the experience of fueling an ICE versus BEV vehicle. I fully acknowledge that being able to charge your battery at home is a very significant advantage, without question. That's one reason it gets my hackles up when, in trying to make this point, people invent scenarios straight out of 3:00 AM Informercial Dystopia where gas stations are veritable lakes of gasoline surrounded by pyrotechnic displays and rampant gunmen.

Rather than talking about the existential dread of treading gasoline into your car from nonexistent spills, I feel that it would be better received to simply be honest and fair.

"Usually I just recharge overnight at home, so I guess you could say I have a full tank every morning" is a succinct way to make the point about time saved, without inventing an irrelevant and nearly completely hyperbolic eleven-step process describing the Gas Station Experience, as it were.

 

[KenC]

The points were a bit belabored, but I get what you're saying. The bottom line is for the vast majority and the vast majority of the time, all Teslas provide plenty of range to avoid anxiety. The real "trouble" is road tripping. In an ICE vehicle, you don't have to plan much at all to hit the road, and it does not matter how you slice it - it's easier, faster and more convenient to put gas or diesel in a vehicle on a road trip. There is no question - zero, zilch, nada - an electric car is currently more work to road trip.

It's funny when people say "oh I'm not charging - I'm just enjoying lunch while my car charges". It's silly to think that every stop on a road trip will align perfectly when you want to have a meal or a bathroom break. There are a lot of variables there too - there could be a zero charging stalls open, there could be a truck blocking access to the charging stall, there could be so many people charging the rates slow down dramatically, etc. etc. You may roll into a charger at 10pm, and there are no restaurants open or anything to do forcing you to just sit around and wait.

I recently did a 2,100 mile road trip from New Hampshire to Colorado in a diesel Sprinter van, and I did it in just over 2 days (left Nashua, NH on 4pm Thursday and was in Denver, CO by 9pm on Saturday). With the mpg and large fuel tank, I only stopped for diesel 3 times, and each stop was for less than 5 minutes. I bought latex gloves by the way to avoid the nasty stink of diesel on my hands and was careful to not spill any or get fumes inside the van which is also a camper, so there's even more incentive to keep it clean. I likely spent less than 20 minutes in the process of refueling before getting back on the road over 2,100 miles, but if I had driven the Tesla it would have been a MUCH longer trip with MANY more stops. Is that a bad thing? For some yes, for some no. For me, the goal was to make it home as fast as possible, and there is no question this way was significantly faster, putting me home a day earlier even, than if I had taken my Model 3. If the goal is a leisurely trip to see as much of the country as possible, it would have been just fine in the Tesla.

We are all ambassadors of the Tesla brand and electric cars in general, and in order for people to take our opinions seriously, there needs to be a balance of the good and the bad. I personally think my stealth Model 3 Performance for $49.9k is likely the best value of any car ever made. I think Tesla has literally created a new path forward for the car to exist in the future. I am totally in love with my Tesla. But, it's important to note there are some areas in which it is more work and can be more annoying than an ICE car, and road trips are the prime example. I have personally convinced at least 6 people to buy Teslas due to just simply explaining my experience (both good and bad), highlighting the facts, and then of course letting people drive my car if they want or go for a test ride. I have never given out my referral code and don't plan to. I don't want anyone to think I have anything to gain from "selling" them on a Tesla, and if after learning about the car and driving it they're not convinced, that's totally fine. That has yet to happen however - literally everyone I've showed the car to absolutely loves it and either buys one or wants to buy one. There's no need to try to convince people there are no shortcomings because there is nothing in life without shortcomings.

Everything you say is true, but your Sprinter trip is a total outlier, when it should be obvious the OP's hypothetical is for your average questioner and average driver. How many people can drive 2100 miles and stop for fuel only 3 times? It's nice that you have your own toilet in the back, assuming you're driving a Sprinter RV.

Just looking at my own trip to my sister's house in Littleton from Maine, 2173 miles, ABRP suggests 17 legs, each leg an average of 1h50m, from the shortest of 1h8m to the longest of 3h7m. Average stop time of 20m, shortest 11m, longest 29m. Unless you're the long-distance trucker type with his own bathroom, it seems to me that 2 to 3hr legs with 20m stops is right in the ballpark for most people to get from Point A to Point B in a safe manner. Are even long-distance truckers allowed to drive the hours that you did on your trip?

 

[notrhj]

Apples and oranges
Home charging ? ICE cars don’t have a pump in the garage.
While it’s a Tesla benefit it’s not an objective comparison.

ICE cars fuel up in the US at 10 gallons per minute pumps. 20 gallon average tank that’s 2 minutes. You could process 10 - 40 ice cars while your EV just sits there with you sucking on a latte. And thats at a super charger. Grass grows at a faster rate than at Lower tier public chargers.

I spoke with a nice man and his Jeep at 12-16 miles to the gallon.
Every 200 or so miles he was filling his tank for $40 - $50 dollars worth of gas.
My p3D went from 10% to 90% for about the same range for about $10 worth of super charge.

That got his attention.
When told at home with an extension cord it would be half that cost, his eyes lit up.

No oil changes
No tune ups, spark plugs, wires, distributors
Radiator flushes, starter motors, air cleaners,
No mufflers, exhaust pipes, catalytic converters, transmissions, etc.
Kiss mr good wrench, Midas, AAMCO, etc goodby.
Even brakes don’t require the same maintenance cycle with regenerative braking.
Every bulb Is led so you won’t be hearing from officer friendly about tail lights being out

Rotate your tires, change your wipers and cabin air filters and most of that is DIY or free.

Good for the car
Good for the planet
Good for your wallet

Oh and the cars are a blast to drive

 

[Rottenapplr]

Jeeeebus people are writing novels here!
See attached. One guy response needed 3 screenshots from my phone haha wtf
OP needed 2 screenshot. You all should consider writing in jalopnik

 

[MTSN]

Everything you say is true, but your Sprinter trip is a total outlier, when it should be obvious the OP's hypothetical is for your average questioner and average driver. How many people can drive 2100 miles and stop for fuel only 3 times? It's nice that you have your own toilet in the back, assuming you're driving a Sprinter RV.

Just looking at my own trip to my sister's house in Littleton from Maine, 2173 miles, ABRP suggests 17 legs, each leg an average of 1h50m, from the shortest of 1h8m to the longest of 3h7m. Average stop time of 20m, shortest 11m, longest 29m. Unless you're the long-distance trucker type with his own bathroom, it seems to me that 2 to 3hr legs with 20m stops is right in the ballpark for most people to get from Point A to Point B in a safe manner. Are even long-distance truckers allowed to drive the hours that you did on your trip?

Doesn't matter if it's an outlier - that is my point actually. For the vast majority of driving the vast majority of drivers do, a Tesla is perfect. But there are cases where an EV would be annoying, like a long distance road trip where you're trying to knock it out as fast as possible. I'm definitely not a long distance truck driver and have no knowledge of how that industry works, but I spend a lot of time driving long distances for off road trips. I personally think a stop every 2 hours is way too frequent for how I/we travel, and to say the stop to charge is likely only 20 minutes again assumes everything lines up perfectly. The real world often does not allow for a perfect scenario. Driving 2 or 3 hours and stopping for 20 minutes means 11-17% of the trip time is parked instead of driving, and that to me sounds incredibly annoying and far from ideal.

 

[SupraDude]

I think it's hilarious the amount of people who opt to not buy a Tesla strictly because of the slight edge in LONG road trip convenience. Most humans tend to have a range they are willing to drive and if it's outside that range we opt instead to fly. Of course, the extreme cost advantage to driving an EV across the country certainly makes one more willing. If it costs $1000 to fly or $40 worth of supercharging than all of a sudden, I might consider driving it. With an Ice car, add the fuel and the additional maintenance incurred from taking a long trip, it might be $300 or $400. That gap is narrowed enough that I'd probably fly but for $960 difference, all of a sudden I don't mind waiting a couple of times for 20 or 30 minutes. My numbers aren't perfect here but you get the point I'm trying to make. In my head, driving across the country in an EV IS an option but isn't in an ice car.

Additionally, most people have no problem if you tell them you have to stop a couple of times for 15 or 20 minutes. Most people only become resistant to EVs if they give you an obscure theoretical trip they might take to the other side of the country which requires 5 or 6 stops. All of a sudden EVs are ridiculous and out of the question because it's just too many stops for too long. In reality, I'm 32 and the longest road trip I have EVER taken is just under 1400kms (869 miles). I've done this trip twice in my entire life and it's only 4 stops (the longest being 24 minutes, total cost is $37.00).

This is equivalent to me buying a box truck because I have bought a couch twice in my life. Well, you never know when you might need to buy a couch, so I should probably have a moving truck in my driveway ready to go.

Edit- I did the actual numbers in my case (I'm in Canada). Fredericton, NB to Toronto, On. 1355kms each way.

Model 3 Long Range
$37.00 each way, total charge time 1.23 each way. 2 hours 46 minutes whole trip.
=$74.00 return trip.

Fly (AirCanada, ticket price as of today).
=985.34 return trip.

Ice car (I assumed 24.7 MPG as this was the average I could find for average MPG on new cars sold).
$1.20 per/liter, 257.4 liters used.
=$308.94 fuel only.
We won't factor in all the other maintenance costs but we will pretty much use up half an oil change interval. I'm pricing an oil change at $75.00. Adding 37.50
=346.44 return trip.

EV 911.34 cheaper than flying.

Ice is 546.90 cheaper than flying.

EV is 272.44 cheaper than Ice. Even if you said the ICE car takes zero minutes to fill up and has to stop zero times. The extra time added to the trip makes your time worth $99 an hour.

 

[focher]

Even when I had a Volt, I only used 180 gallons in the 3 years and 36000 miles I drove it.

How? Because I plugged in at home, so I almost always started with a full charge. And most of us don't drive far nearly as often as we pretend.

 

[KenC]

I think it's hilarious the amount of people who opt to not buy a Tesla strictly because of the slight edge in LONG road trip convenience. Most humans tend to have a range they are willing to drive and if it's outside that range we opt instead to fly. Of course, the extreme cost advantage to driving an EV across the country certainly makes one more willing. If it costs $1000 to fly or $40 worth of supercharging than all of a sudden, I might consider driving it. With an Ice car, add the fuel and the additional maintenance incurred from taking a long trip, it might be $300 or $400. That gap is narrowed enough that I'd probably fly but for $960 difference, all of a sudden I don't mind waiting a couple of times for 20 or 30 minutes. My numbers aren't perfect here but you get the point I'm trying to make. In my head, driving across the country in an EV IS an option but isn't in an ice car.

Additionally, most people have no problem if you tell them you have to stop a couple of times for 15 or 20 minutes. Most people only become resistant to EVs if they give you an obscure theoretical trip they might take to the other side of the country which requires 5 or 6 stops. All of a sudden EVs are ridiculous and out of the question because it's just too many stops for too long. In reality, I'm 32 and the longest road trip I have EVER taken is just under 1400kms (869 miles). I've done this trip twice in my entire life and it's only 4 stops (the longest being 24 minutes, total cost is $37.00).

This is equivalent to me buying a box truck because I have bought a couch twice in my life. Well, you never know when you might need to buy a couch, so I should probably have a moving truck in my driveway ready to go.

Edit- I did the actual numbers in my case (I'm in Canada). Fredericton, NB to Toronto, On. 1355kms each way.

Model 3 Long Range
$37.00 each way, total charge time 1.23 each way. 2 hours 46 minutes whole trip.
=$74.00 return trip.

Fly (AirCanada, ticket price as of today).
=985.34 return trip.

Ice car (I assumed 24.7 MPG as this was the average I could find for average MPG on new cars sold).
$1.20 per/liter, 257.4 liters used.
=$308.94 fuel only.
We won't factor in all the other maintenance costs but we will pretty much use up half an oil change interval. I'm pricing an oil change at $75.00. Adding 37.50
=346.44 return trip.

EV 911.34 cheaper than flying.

Ice is 546.90 cheaper than flying.

EV is 272.44 cheaper than Ice. Even if you said the ICE car takes zero minutes to fill up and has to stop zero times. The extra time added to the trip makes your time worth $99 an hour.

Don't forget depreciation. When I think of long trips, I not only think of the fuel cost, tolls, and tire wear, and as you mention oil, etc. Those are your operational costs. You also have depreciation of your vehicle, pretty much based upon usage or mileage. If you add 1700 miles, your car may be depreciating 20 cents a mile or $340. Just think of how much your car might be sold for if it had 1700 more miles on the odometer.

I use 20 cents/ mile, since my cars are pretty much done after 250k miles. A $50k car amortized over 250k miles comes out to ~20cents/mile.

So, I'd add $340 to your comparison. EV = $411; ICE = $649; Flying = $985. So, flying is still the most expensive, but not nearly as much when comparing flying to ICE.

 

[SupraDude]

Don't forget depreciation. When I think of long trips, I not only think of the fuel cost, tolls, and tire wear, and as you mention oil, etc. Those are your operational costs. You also have depreciation of your vehicle, pretty much based upon usage or mileage. If you add 1700 miles, your car may be depreciating 20 cents a mile or $340. Just think of how much your car might be sold for if it had 1700 more miles on the odometer.

I use 20 cents/ mile, since my cars are pretty much done after 250k miles. A $50k car amortized over 250k miles comes out to ~20cents/mile.

So, I'd add $340 to your comparison. EV = $411; ICE = $649; Flying = $985. So, flying is still the most expensive, but not nearly as much when comparing flying to ICE.

that's fair, you're right, depreciation should be factored in but to what magnitude is debatable and to some degree personal. Even with occasional trips, on average, I put on less than 20,000kms a year. Whether having an EV and a new found sense of freedom will add to this is still yet to be seen but at that rate, I'm only doing 160,000kms over the plausible (but unlikely) chance I own this car for 8 years. That's about 99,500 miles. The used model S market is crazy here still, hard to say what the used model 3 market will be 8 years from now but I think the demand for used EVs will remain high keeping the prices up. Used S's are selling for roughly half of their original purchase price 8 years later. Most don't have 250,000 miles (400,000kms) but I can think of one example I've seen recently that had that kind of mileage and was still selling for roughly 1/3 of its original purchase price. But this does presume that you are selling your vehicle independently and not trade in at a dealer because we all know you get a kick in the pants at the dealer and in that case, you're probably right in amotorizing pretty much the entire car. So for me personally, I'd probably factor closer to 10 cents a mile or something. In general, Ice cars don't have near the resale and 8 years later could likely be amortized to near 0, this furthers the gap between the two but also you're purchase price could be considerably less then 50k. Long story short, it gets a lot more complicated when you add depreciation but if you factor it in, regardless how you do it, it strengthens my original point that buyers put way too much emphasis on infrequent long distance car trips when it comes to car purchasing decisions.

 

[yerEVan]

Isn’t the point of zero emissions enough to, hopefully, encourage an ICE owner to ponder the thought of purchasing an EV? (This is a rhetorical question). You buy a LR EV so you can ignore the range anxiety issue, if you can afford it, so really it’s about doing good things for the planet. It’s not the convenience for me, although it is clearly way more convenient to just plug in at home and never worry about going to a gas station. I have to worry about power outages maybe 1 time a year. Sure that’s my situation, and that’s all that i can worry about for my life, but there are millions of people in my same situation. Not many road trips, not many power outages.

A) i realize generating electricity “may” not be clean
B) Petrol is clearly not clean
C) trucks driving the petrol to the station, via Petrol vehicles is not clean
D) wear and tear on tires of those petrol trucks, and motors and oil, and wear and tear on the roads, etc, not good.
E) Cars driving to and from the gas station to fill up and leave, again, not clean

I’m not a motorhead expert, etc. but having this P3D-, it is the most amazing car i have ever driven and I’ve had it for a year, and it feels like the first week of driving it, every week.

 

[DopeGhoti]

Jeeeebus people are writing novels here!
See attached. One guy response needed 3 screenshots from my phone haha wtf
OP needed 2 screenshot. You all should consider writing in jalopnik

This is a forum, not Twitter. Writing out complete thoughts is a good thing in this sort of discourse-context regime.

 

[StealthP3D]

This is a forum, not Twitter. Writing out complete thoughts is a good thing in this sort of discourse-context regime.

Exactly! Nobody is holding a gun to read everything written! So write to your heart's content. If it's interesting, people will read it.

 

[Wodensthrall]

I HATE pumping gas with a red-hot passion. In my previous vehicles, I would drive until I was on fumes to use every drop of gas I could, and therefore pump as much as possible, thus minimizing the number of trips to the gas station. Now that I can plug in at home, I rarely get below 100 miles, have no "range anxiety", or complex calculations/estimations of when I can put off the trip to the station no longer. Add to that no more oil changes, tune-ups or overpriced smog checks, and the Tesla is pure heaven!

 

[DopeGhoti]

I too used to drive down to fumes, though usually because I was wanting to gauge the energy-efficiency of various gas stations so that I'd know which brands and stations to avoid (for example, Shell, Chevron, and ARCO would usually have about 6-8MPG less fuel economy than Circle K or Costco, so I'd only go to one of them if I absolutely had to).