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Range differences with Pilot Sport All Season 4 or CrossClimate2 vs Primacy MXM4
- Thread starter MJB-CO
- Start date
@rxlawdude I'm not suggesting to underinflate (unless you're stuck in sand or something). Inflating for even tire wear will not contribute to tire failure.
Overinflating to just use the center of the tread is silly in my opinion, yes it's more efficient, but you're literally wasting much of your tire. Might as well use skinnier tires (and wheels) if you really need that extra efficiency (see BMW i3
), that way you won't sacrifice ride quality and your tires should be cheaper.
Overinflating to just use the center of the tread is silly in my opinion, yes it's more efficient, but you're literally wasting much of your tire. Might as well use skinnier tires (and wheels) if you really need that extra efficiency (see BMW i3
), that way you won't sacrifice ride quality and your tires should be cheaper.
rxlawdude
Active Member
I don't think that was the gist of my post. Rather, I was pointing out the difference in obvious tire wear between under and over inflation. I go for 2psi cold above Tesla's recommended pressure, which is still way below the tires' maximum.@rxlawdude I'm not suggesting to underinflate (unless you're stuck in sand or something). Inflating for even tire wear will not contribute to tire failure.
Overinflating to just use the center of the tread is silly in my opinion, yes it's more efficient, but you're literally wasting much of your tire. Might as well use skinnier tires (and wheels) if you really need that extra efficiency (see BMW i3
The idea is to have as much tread/rubber on the road as possible without increasing rolling resistance significantly enough to cause energy consumption to spike to >300Wh/mi from 250-ish.
I've seen 5-10% drop in efficiency when I replaced the MXM4s with more sporty Michelins. But I'd freak out at a huge jump of 20%+.
When I replace those tires on our RWD M3, I'm going back to the MXM4s.
carlg
Member
Excellent Question. Pretty soon I wilI need to replace my Primacy MXM4 OEM tires on my 2018 AWD Long Range, and am hoping these Michelin EV tires will be available before I have to decide between the PS AS4, PS 4S, and the unavailable Primacy MXM4's.
There is no way you're going to reduce your consumption by 50 Whr/Mi by adding 2 lb over Tesla's recommended tire pressure. You will on the other hand accelerate your crown wear, which is already at Tesla's recommended pressure for a little bit greater than edge wear depending on your driving Style. So your tires will not last as long, and in all honesty that's going to cost you as much money as your saving with the modest reduction in electrons per mile.
Last but not least if you ever have to make a panic stop you don't want to do that on over-inflated tires. That could be extremely expensive particularly given that you seem to prefer tires with significantly poorer emergency braking traded off again lower rolling resistance. Very few tires excel at both. For example the Pilot Sport 4S is among the best at stopping but is not a champion at efficiency. It's all trade-offs and you cannot optimize for everything.
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rxlawdude
Active Member
Well, according to the Michelin web site, they are only available in one size right now: 255/40R20 101W XL T0 Acoustic BSW
That doesn't fit my SR+, so I didn't look any further. Also, they only have a 20,000 mile warranty, so I am in no rush until they improve on that.
Well the PSEV is a summer performance tire. If you're looking for an MXM4 style long-lasting, low-performance tire the PSEV isn't trying to be that. Michelin's website compares it to the PS4 and PS5 (*not* to the PS4S). 20k mile tread warranty is the same as PS4.
But yeah, Model Y size only right now.
Has anyone been able to obtain the Michelin Primacy MXM4 T1 XL 98W 235/45R-18 this year in the US (midwest)? If so, could you share where?
I have had a set of 4 on backorder since last Nov when there was even an available rebate via Tirerack. Current website ETA is April.
It's tempting to go with the 94V variant (showing in-stock) of same MXM4 or to an alternate 98W that's available and take the range hit while getting better traction.
I have a nagging concern that if a single tire needed replacement, getting one might take 4 to 6 months which seems risky and would tax even the most patience. I know, buy a cold spare. But...
I have had a set of 4 on backorder since last Nov when there was even an available rebate via Tirerack. Current website ETA is April.
It's tempting to go with the 94V variant (showing in-stock) of same MXM4 or to an alternate 98W that's available and take the range hit while getting better traction.
I have a nagging concern that if a single tire needed replacement, getting one might take 4 to 6 months which seems risky and would tax even the most patience. I know, buy a cold spare. But...
Not y'all have seen the review from toptirereview, see here: Which Michelin is better? Primacy 4 vs Pilot sport 4 - Top Tire Review
They went through all the tests and the most surprising one is of course the Rolling Resistance difference between the two. For those that said the PS AS 4 seem to have drop in the 10-15 range, that makes sense, see illustration below. If we are talking exclusively RR, then the MXM4 wins hands down! I have had my MXM4 for 31K miles, just sold the OEM wheels and tires, and on winter tires right now, but have been thinking either the PS AS4 or the DWS06+. Going to 19" wheels as well, so either way, I am going to see a drop in efficiency and range. Anyways, thought I'd share with you all.
But looking at the illustration below, if we were just to judge based solely on this, the MXM4 wins hands down! I can't believe that the MXM4 wins in all the categories that the PS AS 4 should, in theory be better....
They went through all the tests and the most surprising one is of course the Rolling Resistance difference between the two. For those that said the PS AS 4 seem to have drop in the 10-15 range, that makes sense, see illustration below. If we are talking exclusively RR, then the MXM4 wins hands down! I have had my MXM4 for 31K miles, just sold the OEM wheels and tires, and on winter tires right now, but have been thinking either the PS AS4 or the DWS06+. Going to 19" wheels as well, so either way, I am going to see a drop in efficiency and range. Anyways, thought I'd share with you all.
But looking at the illustration below, if we were just to judge based solely on this, the MXM4 wins hands down! I can't believe that the MXM4 wins in all the categories that the PS AS 4 should, in theory be better....
@gotoma8 I don't know else to say this...that "comparison" you linked to looks like nonsense. That website as a whole looks like spam. Please don't make any tire purchase decisions based on that false comparison.
That "data" contradicts everything else that's been published about these two tires and most users reports also. I suspect that's an advertising website. Read the real professionals here: 2021 Tyre Reviews UHP Summer Tyre Test - Tyre Reviews and Tests
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I can't say, but I do know that for me, I didn't really believe in most of it, but I do think the rolling resistance results are to my expectations based on what I've read, etc. That was really the point to my post. I'll be putting on 19x8.5 Replikas soon as I pick them up in Canada from a friends, but was thinking PSAS4 but also thought hard about the DWS06+.
If any of it is garbage that means all of it is garbage. Look at the link posted in my previous response. Read legit reviews not garbage. Either the DWS06 or the PS4AS are better all around tires than the MXM4.
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This discussion is so confused.
The Pilot Sport 4 is not the same as the Pilot Sport All Season 4. They’re totally different, different generation even.
The Primacy 4 is not same as the Primacy MXM4 T1. The latter is, among other things, tweaked specifically for Tesla.
If you want to compare the tires in bold then great, but you have to use reviews that actually compare those tires!
The Pilot Sport 4 is not the same as the Pilot Sport All Season 4. They’re totally different, different generation even.
The Primacy 4 is not same as the Primacy MXM4 T1. The latter is, among other things, tweaked specifically for Tesla.
If you want to compare the tires in bold then great, but you have to use reviews that actually compare those tires!
@gotoma8 That webpage you linked to is literally meaningless. It's pure advertising clickbait. It is not a real tire comparison. Full stop. There is nothing to be learned from it, not one single thing.
To give you some guidance among tires you've mentioned...the Michelin MXM4 is good for long tread life, low rolling resistance, and quiet (at least in Tesla spec with a foam liner). It is terrible for cornering grip, braking, and road feel. I never used it in the snow, can't comment on its snow or ice traction, but in the wet and dry it's basically an anti-performance tire. What are your priorities?
Continental's DWS series (DWS, DWS06, now DWS06+) is known for being a rare Ultra-High Performance (UHP) category allseason with some useful amount of snow (and maybe ice?) traction. Nowhere near as good in the snow and ice as a dedicated winter tire, but better than most/all other UHP allseasons. Its tradeoff is they're not the very best UHP allseasons for dry grip (maybe not for wet grip either), but still better than most allseasons. The DWS series therefore offers a fairly unique set of tradeoffs on the market. I've never had them on my own car but friends have used older versions (e.g. original DWS) and liked them for what they offer.
I believe the Michelin PSAS4 is a more traditional UHP allseason, but I have no personal or secondhand experience with it. That is, I expect it outgrips the DWS06+ a little in the dry, and maybe wet, but gives up snow traction to the DWS06+. If you care much about snow traction in this tire I'd steer you towards the DWS06+, but if you're not really concerned about that, PSAS4 might be better performing then.
To give you some guidance among tires you've mentioned...the Michelin MXM4 is good for long tread life, low rolling resistance, and quiet (at least in Tesla spec with a foam liner). It is terrible for cornering grip, braking, and road feel. I never used it in the snow, can't comment on its snow or ice traction, but in the wet and dry it's basically an anti-performance tire. What are your priorities?
Continental's DWS series (DWS, DWS06, now DWS06+) is known for being a rare Ultra-High Performance (UHP) category allseason with some useful amount of snow (and maybe ice?) traction. Nowhere near as good in the snow and ice as a dedicated winter tire, but better than most/all other UHP allseasons. Its tradeoff is they're not the very best UHP allseasons for dry grip (maybe not for wet grip either), but still better than most allseasons. The DWS series therefore offers a fairly unique set of tradeoffs on the market. I've never had them on my own car but friends have used older versions (e.g. original DWS) and liked them for what they offer.
I believe the Michelin PSAS4 is a more traditional UHP allseason, but I have no personal or secondhand experience with it. That is, I expect it outgrips the DWS06+ a little in the dry, and maybe wet, but gives up snow traction to the DWS06+. If you care much about snow traction in this tire I'd steer you towards the DWS06+, but if you're not really concerned about that, PSAS4 might be better performing then.
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
MXM4 and CrossClimate2 are showing negligible differences. I'm currently 3,000 miles into a new set of CrossClimate2s. The first 1,000 miles there was a 6% range hit, but after that the average kWh/mile is identical.
I am agree, it was just link and perhaps I was being naive for sure.
I agree with this, though on the 31k of my MXM4, I thought the ride was good. here in the PNW, we do get a couple snow storms and we just stay in most of those days, but the temperature here, starting in Nov-Feb and into March hovers around 40s, can be in the 20s but normally in the upper 30s to low 40s. I am currently on Alpin P4 and it seems good. The winter tires are nice when going to the mountains in the winter.
That's what I have read and heard from M3 owners with DWS06+, so, that's good to hear the same. They are a little cheaper than PSAS4, but there's always the $150 off at Costco on Michelins. So price difference in the end is negligible at best.
Agreed and that's my plan, is to go with theses but instead of 235/40R19, I am going to go 245/40R19...a bit softer ride, hopefully the small increase in sidewall doesn't hurt performance.
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