Range Extension Stupidity

[arnyswart]

I don’t understand the range extension. You could easily use an aluminum battery which is non rechargeable but give 1000km/ or 625 miles of additional range which would solve the range problem.

How often would you use it? Maybe once per year, but then the roadtrip ends up not needing a super charger at all.

I would prefer to buy that, ie a battery hybrid alternative that is fully recyclable.

 

[HankLloydRight]

How much would that battery weigh and how would you get it installed?

 

[tashtibet]

wow! some random dude online is smarter than all those engineers & R&D expenses!

 

[israndy]

The nice thing about electric cars is that we can recharge them, we don't have to recycle them after 400 miles. If you are suggesting that an Aluminum battery could be purchased at a gas station and then dumped in their recycling when you run out I think that would be a good strategy, but I don't know how much it would weigh, the Range Extender is probably too much for two strong people to lift so if you suggestion is the same lets nix it now.

The REx can be installed and forgotten about. Taking the Airstream out this summer? Don't forget to schedule the REx installation. Now you can drive 200+ miles while towing w/o stopping at EVERY Supercharger along the way. Heck you can make it to Nevada from Idaho without going 40 MPH the whole way.

If there was a tech that would do that w/o the weight let us know. Like could we employ a Fuel Cell? Just for those stretches where we won't make it with the trucks native range? Even just a diesel genset would be enough to help with towing, and I am sure all these ideas will be explored as people get their hands on the truck

 

[DanDi58]

The use case for the range extender is really for those that tow frequently or like to go off-roading/camping for days at a time. You don't need it for road tripping given the Supercharger network and, if you have a CCS adapter, the non-Tesla network, reliability concerns aside.

 

[QuadB]

The additional weight and cost is wasteful for day to day it's not hard to figure out

 

[TessP100D]

The additional weight and cost is wasteful for day to day it's not hard to figure out

Range is King. It’s amazing people still dont understand it. Tesla promised us 500 miles of range and they failed.

 

[Atomadam]

Range is King. It’s amazing people still dont understand it. Tesla promised us 500 miles of range and they failed.

they did in both ways really. I'm guessing they couldn't crack the code and had to go back from the 2019 presentation. Knew that was the case during Elon interviews when he addressed range and was making excuses. Disappointed

 

[Unclepaul]

All this "but they promised!" talk is getting a little whiney. When envisioned the 4680 cells were supposed to provide the extra capacity to give 500 mile range. It so happened that they did not achieve this goal. Already, the latest 2nd generation 4680 cells give 15% better capacity than the first generation. As Tesla gets a better handle what this new dry battery can do, I imagine that they will eventually coach 500 miles out of them...but not doable right today.

Earlier Tesla whines.
It takes too long to charge...now their cars charge much faster.
It cost too much...they reduced prices and configured to be eligible for rebates & Credits.
Not enough SuperChargers...they rolled out more & faster Superchargers. Also show on screen how many empty chargers are working at a glance.
No automatic headlights/windshield wipers. They rolled these out with free OTA updates on existing cars
Automatic Headlights/windshield wipers work poorly...they have continously improved their performance...at no additional cost.
Don't want to have to constantly push the brake pedal at stop lights...they invented HOLD.
My car has wind noise. They have improved this considerably.
I have panel gaps...they invented giga castings to provide more precise capability.
I want to do better at the track. They invented track mode and Cheetah stance.
I want birds eye view on the display. They improved cameras and locations to offer better around car visability.
I want ventilated seats...On it...
I want faster computer and display...they made faster chips.
I want cheaper insurance...they offer their own (often cheaper) insurance.
I want to test drive during Covid...they developed no touch solo demo rides.
Getting into the service center is hard...they produced at home/office Ranger service.

This list of Tesla improving the breed is getting ever longer. I know so many want everything perfect, and everything NOW!, but reality would suggest that a policy of continous improvement is providing ever better cars.

 

[gtgarner]

I wouldn't call Range extension stupid (thread topic).

It's just not for everyone.


However - in these days and times - people think that everything they want/like is genius and everything they don't want/like is stupid.

It's an "extremes only" world these days. What a shame.

 

[gtgarner]

wow! some random dude online is smarter than all those engineers & R&D expenses!

Yeah, you would think they would be able to use their abilities to create another Tesla, Amazon, Nvidia, etc., instead of wasting their creative/genius time typing in a forum.

I wonder why these guys aren't here..

 

[HitchHiker71]

All this "but they promised!" talk is getting a little whiney. When envisioned the 4680 cells were supposed to provide the extra capacity to give 500 mile range. It so happened that they did not achieve this goal. Already, the latest 2nd generation 4680 cells give 15% better capacity than the first generation. As Tesla gets a better handle what this new dry battery can do, I imagine that they will eventually coach 500 miles out of them...but not doable right today.

Actually - per Lars in the latest Munro engineering video - the Gen2 Cybercell gives 9% - explicitly stated - better range than the Gen1 4680 cells. It remains to be seen what the Gen3 and Gen4 cells can do.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I wouldn't call Range extension stupid (thread topic).

It's just not for everyone.


However - in these days and times - people think that everything they want/like is genius and everything they don't want/like is stupid.

It's an "extremes only" world these days. What a shame.

Per the latest engineering video - Lars basically said it didn't make sense to stack a bunch of batteries into the CT when the majority of buyers will never use them. It seems like they are using the old 80/20 rule. The CT range as released will meet the needs of 80% of the buyers. For the remaining 20% that tow/haul/off-road on a regular basis - the range extender will meet that need. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this approach - but I understand the logic of the decision making process with this perspective in mind. My biggest issue with this approach is that those same prospective buyers that fall into the 20% bucket and need range extension, also oftentimes need full use of the pickup bed. Having 35% of the bed taken up by the range extender, and the remaining pickup bed consumed by a full size spare - which really becomes a necessity when towing/hauling/off-roading - means you effectively lose the pickup bed. This is at least somewhat of a "miss" IMHO.

 

[gtgarner]

Per the latest engineering video - Lars basically said it didn't make sense to stack a bunch of batteries into the CT when the majority of buyers will never use them. It seems like they are using the old 80/20 rule. The CT range as released will meet the needs of 80% of the buyers. For the remaining 20% that tow/haul/off-road on a regular basis - the range extender will meet that need. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with this approach - but I understand the logic of the decision making process with this perspective in mind. My biggest issue with this approach is that those same prospective buyers that fall into the 20% bucket and need range extension, also oftentimes need full use of the pickup bed. Having 35% of the bed taken up by the range extender, and the remaining pickup bed consumed by a full size spare - which really becomes a necessity when towing/hauling/off-roading - means you effectively lose the pickup bed. This is at least somewhat of a "miss" IMHO.

I 100% agree with you.

I'm glad my CyberTruck won't come with all of the batteries/cost of the range extender thereby increasing my costs. I will never need the increased range on my CyberTruck.

As I have stated before here - I only have a 200-mile bladder at the most.


The only thing I would have requested to Tesla though is that they could have put the range extender below the bed where the deep well is. That way the bed could remain flat. However, I'm sure there is some reason they put it where it is. Maybe that weight is best between the wheels? I don't know. whatever.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Drinking more Kool-aid I see.

.they invented HOLD

They didn't invent squat. Brake HOLD has been available on so many other cars for decades.

.they made faster chips.

They didn't make faster chips.. they used faster chips already made by someone else.

hey offer their own (often cheaper) insurance.

LOL. What a joke that's been. Just ask anyone who signed up for it.

Automatic Headlights/windshield wipers work poorly...they have continuously improved their performance...at no additional cost.
No automatic headlights/windshield wipers. They rolled these out with free OTA updates on existing cars

Dead-simple features that should work out of the box. Other cars have had auto-headlights and auto-wipers also for decades. Elon screwed the pooch on this one in order to delete more parts. In no way is this a good thing to brag about. And all updates are free -- calling that our here like it's something special is weak.

My car has wind noise. They have improved this considerably.

Hmmm.. there shouldn't be that much wind noise to begin with. Crappy engineering/manufacturing.

...they invented giga castings t

They didn't invent giga castings. They asked around for any press manufacturing company who could do build a bigger press, and they only found one that signed up. THAT company has invented a bigger casting machine. Yawn.

They invented track mode

Now you're reaching for straws. They were not the first to have a track mode. They didn't "invent" it.

I want birds eye view on the display. They improved cameras and locations to offer better around car visability.

And once again, a feature that dozens of other car makers have had for dozens of years. Tesla should have had this out of the box 10 years ago.

All this "but they promised!" talk is getting a little whiney.

This! This, I'll agree with.

 

[arnyswart]

In answer to the question:

It is estimated that 55 lb (25 kg) of aluminum will provide a driving range of about 1000 mi (1600 km), and the entire battery will weigh about 200 lb (90 kg).

Aluminium–air battery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Or

Aluminum-air battery to charge electric vehicles.

Aluminum-air batteries have the potential to change the electric vehicle market not just in India, but in the world as a whole. These batteries do have one major downside. However, unlike lithium-ion batteries, aluminum-air batteries cannot be recharged.

www.electricbee.co

Most people do not use anywhere near the capacity of the main rechargable battery. In the event of a road trip/heaving towing for a once off I would be happy with this as an alternative.

 

[gtgarner]

In answer to the question:

Aluminium–air battery - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Or

Aluminum-air battery to charge electric vehicles.

Aluminum-air batteries have the potential to change the electric vehicle market not just in India, but in the world as a whole. These batteries do have one major downside. However, unlike lithium-ion batteries, aluminum-air batteries cannot be recharged.

www.electricbee.co

Most people do not use anywhere near the capacity of the main rechargable battery. In the event of a road trip/heaving towing for a once off I would be happy with this as an alternative.

Indeed, I don't believe I have ever used anywhere near the capacity of my Tesla.

I just wonder why they don't place the range extender below the bed. You know, in the lower pit of the trunk where the groceries go.

 

[buckets0fun]

Not sure why people are surprised the range dropped after the masses begged for the truck to be smaller. The larger truck had a pass through to the vault, didn’t req multiple major thermal management redesigns, and other things… all ruined by the vocal ‘never truck owners’.

If we’re going to complain, let’s complain of the lack of 14klbs towing. THAT’S an issue worthy of sadness.

The range extender already says it needs to be installed by tesla at a service center. Not sure why people think a few people will be able to hand install it. Or those complaining that it takes up bed space, much like traditional truck bed add-ins. Toolboxes, reserve fuel tanks. Spare tire needs a place? get a hitch mounted swing out version, maybe a polygon version will be released by the aftermarket. Aftermarket even has versions that still allow towing.

 

[gtgarner]

If we’re going to complain, let’s complain of the lack of 14klbs towing. THAT’S an issue worthy of sadness.

The range extender already says it needs to be installed by tesla at a service center. Not sure why people think a few people will be able to hand install it. Or those complaining that it takes up bed space, much like traditional truck bed add-ins. Toolboxes, reserve fuel tanks. Spare tire needs a place? get a hitch mounted swing out version, maybe a polygon version will be released by the aftermarket. Aftermarket even has versions that still allow towing.

Because it doesn't have to.

In a traditional truck bed - there is no choice.

In a CT there is a choice. Put it under here.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Not sure why people are surprised the range dropped after the masses begged for the truck to be smaller. The larger truck had a pass through to the vault, didn’t req multiple major thermal management redesigns, and other things… all ruined by the vocal ‘never truck owners’.

If we’re going to complain, let’s complain of the lack of 14klbs towing. THAT’S an issue worthy of sadness.

The range extender already says it needs to be installed by tesla at a service center. Not sure why people think a few people will be able to hand install it. Or those complaining that it takes up bed space, much like traditional truck bed add-ins. Toolboxes, reserve fuel tanks. Spare tire needs a place? get a hitch mounted swing out version, maybe a polygon version will be released by the aftermarket. Aftermarket even has versions that still allow towing.

Interesting perspective. Only wannabe "truck" owners complain about a truck not fitting in a standard garage IMHO. I've owned full size pickups since 2012 - never once parked one in any garage as they are simply too large to fit in any standard garage size. That tells us something about the demographic for this vehicle right out of the gate. Good points all around. My only quibble is the hitch mounted full size spare - that works for off-roading - much like what Jeep does, but it doesn't work when towing heavy loads - as the hitch is already in use - and many folks load up the bed with other equipment when towing a large camper for example. Sure you can find versions that still allow towing - but those are often compromise type solutions that aren't ideal for some use cases. I'd much prefer having an option to store the full size spare in the storage compartment under the bed.