Model Y Long Range constantly showing 315-317 mile range when fully charged.

[ucmndd]

Can you point me to those?

Providing evidence to support one’s feelings doesn’t seem to be particularly important to this individual.

 

[ucmndd]

My friends 2003 Suburban can predict range based on previous driving.

So can your Tesla. It’s called the Energy app. Have you ever used it?

The range estimate on the dash is deliberately NOT that, and I’m thankful for it. It’s much more of a static representation of actual capacity remaining in the battery than a guess-o-meter based on events in the past.

. In 2017, A Better Route Planner could accurately predict range based on weather, road type, speed and elevation. This isn’t that hard.

Again, as could your Tesla. Have you ever used the energy app? It’s remarkably accurate.

 

[sublimejackman]

Providing evidence to support one’s feelings doesn’t seem to be particularly important to this individual.

nah…

Let Me Google That

For all those people that find it more convenient to bother you with their question than to google it for themselves.

t.ly

 

[jjrandorin]

Ok, this thread has run its course and is now just a bunch of pretty pointless back and forth. As I said previously there is nothing in this thread that doesnt exist in one of the 100s of other battery threads. I am going to lock this one. I may or may not unlock it later, but every point that people want to make on this topic in this thread has already been made.

 

[AAKEE]

About the Reuters article about that Tesla manipulates the indicated range, I have never seen a proof or even indication on that. On the contrary, all my logged data and the things I checked tells me the exakt opposite.

Besides 3 years of SMT-data, I thought I would do another test for just this when I anyway was to do a 250km+ drive. Not at home right now so not from teslalogger logs.

I scheduled a 100% charging, but for the first time duribg these three years I had forgotten to connect the car in the garage.
I was able to charge up from ~20% to 56%, and then I stopped for a up to 80% supercharge on the way.

This is the result. I took notice at every even 10% SOC displayed by the car.
Started at 56%, supercharged at 31% to 80% and ended at 36% displayed.
I took screen shots of the SMT displayed BMS-data and put them in the chart below.
Taking screen shots (two on SMT per even 10% plus photos of the trip screen and displayed SOC takes a little time so the values will not be taken at the instantly same time. Small differences will come from this. Anyway, if these differences cause a variation bigger than any other variation, the other variation is not big enough to really change the users experience.

To increase the precision of the valculations I have used the SOC from the BMS (same as the displayed but not rounded, SMT displays with one digit on my tablet.

The calculated numbers to look for is first of all the [Delta usable energy per 10% SOC. It shows the cars handling of the usable energy in the battery per 10% displayed SOC.
We can also look at the two right columns.
Delivered energy (from the trip screen) per rated km loss and also the quota of the delta energy usable and loss of rated km.

The nominal full pack was 97.4 kWh, so usable = 97.4 x 0.955 = 93.0 kWh.
This mesns 1% SOC should be 0.93 kWh abd that 10% should be 9.3kWh. If there is a manipulated SOC-rated km- energy, this value should change, or the rated range per energy used should change.
9.3 kWh/10% is the number to have it straight forward true the SOC range.
Compare the [Delta usable energy/10% SOC] with 9.3.

Also look at the Energy / rated km.

I see that my variation from the slight time shift of the photos and print screens cause more variation than anything else. We have two examples of the SOC range in 60-50, 50-40 and 40-30%, and there is a difference in these much bigger than any other change of energy / km.
There is no foul play in this range!

I would say that the reuters article comes from the people behind do not understand Teslas displayed range.
They do not understand that the EPA test actually drives until the car stops, and they do not see the common sence that Tesla displays just that range when fully charged, just as the EPA tests is built up.
They probably understand that the buffer Tesla has built in is to reduce the risk of getting stranded.
But the fact that that some of the true EPA range has to be hidden to make up the buffer is not a clear part of the article, and mentioning this very clear would make the pitch behind the article non valid.
Media loves picking at Tesla, so they don’t mention it at all even if they actually knew that.

 

[Mike728]

I just charged to 100% Monday morning before taking a trip. The range showed 323 miles. The trip was 130 miles and showed 47% battery remaining, so I charged to 75% for the trip home. When I got home, it was at 5%, so 260 miles on ~130% charge. What this shows is that you should never go off the milage estimate and just use percentage, like you would a gas gauge.

 

[AAKEE]

For the navigation and automatic charging calc’s, we left my mother in laws place with the car cosld soaked to -24C, and aet the nav on ”go home”. It immediatly planned to arrive at a SuC on the way with 11%.

~ Two hours later we arrived at the same SuC with 12%. The temperature had gone up so this probably explain the extra perfect still in the battery.

I can not see any bogus about this either.
Nice calcs, even when starting the drive with a coald soaked car in -24C.

 

[J-a-x]

I just charged to 100% Monday morning before taking a trip. The range showed 323 miles. The trip was 130 miles and showed 47% battery remaining, so I charged to 75% for the trip home. When I got home, it was at 5%, so 260 miles on ~130% charge. What this shows is that you should never go off the milage estimate and just use percentage, like you would a gas gauge.

I understand perfectly why to never use the mile estimate in that way. In winter I drive with 75-80% efficiency most of the time (drive 80 miles and use 100 miles of “Tesla’s system range”).

That said, the reason I started this thread is that maximum “Tesla system range” used to be 330 last winter and this winter it’s more like 315-320 under same conditions at full charge.

So was curious if that was really degradation since my car isn’t that old and plenty of cars with less miles have >320 miles at full charge according to TeslaFi and anecdotal accounts.

I think the answer is nobody really knows but probably is at least partially due to real degradation.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

nobody really knows but probably is at least partially due to real degradation.

We really know, and it is really degradation of the BMS capacity estimate, and has real-world impact on achievable range.

It’s perfectly normal. Don’t worry about it and if you want to reduce it going forward, follow the various methods to do so, if you wish. Part of normal aging.

 

[sublimejackman]

I understand perfectly why to never use the mile estimate in that way. In winter I drive with 75-80% efficiency most of the time (drive 80 miles and use 100 miles of “Tesla’s system range”).

That said, the reason I started this thread is that maximum “Tesla system range” used to be 330 last winter and this winter it’s more like 315-320 under same conditions at full charge.

So was curious if that was really degradation since my car isn’t that old and plenty of cars with less miles have >320 miles at full charge according to TeslaFi and anecdotal accounts.

I think the answer is nobody really knows but probably is at least partially due to real degradation.

As @AlanSubie4Life said above me, this is completely normal. All Teslas lose about 5-10% of their original reported range in the first year or so. The battery packs are made up of thousands of individual cells. Initial range, as reported, can be skewed a bit. So some cars start with a little more real range and some start with a little less and some degrade a little bit more. After this initial degradation, things normalize and the battery degrades very slowly (years or maybe even decades), if you take care of it.

We both agree on this and I am sorry that I took this thread off the rails a bit.

TLDR, what you are reporting is well within "normal".

 

[sublimejackman]

Easy rules to follow:

Avoid charging above 90%. New Caveat: Every time you do, you degrade the battery more rapidly than if you keep the charge limit around 45-75%.

(The individual batteries create dead lithium "dendrites" and once they are dead, they can't be reversed. This happens in all lithium-based batteries to varying degrees. The higher and faster you charge the battery, the more of these will form.)

Daily charge (if you want to keep the car for 8+ years) you would keep your daily limit at or below 80% and preferably you would keep the charge between 45-75% most of the time. (for the same reason as above)

Discharging too low isn't a huge deal so generally, discharging to 5% is fine on occasion. Just wouldn’t recommend keeping it unplugged and below 20% for long periods of time (new caveat: leaving it below 20% prevents sentry and preconditioning. Also, if it gets cold or you check the app/open the doors frequently it will eventually drain after a few days).

Supercharging degrades that battery faster than home charging. But not enough that you should avoid road trips.

(Battery charge rates are expressed with "C", that's the rate that it would take to charge the battery to full in one hour. So, if you charge the battery from 0%-100% in 30min, that means you charged the battery at 2C. 2x its capacity. For lithium batteries you want this number to typically be below 1C, but newer batteries and better cooling systems allow for faster charging with less degradation)

Also, some degradation is unavoidable. In the first year, all Teslas lose about 5-10% of their initial range. This is normal. But if you just keep the battery below 90% and only supercharge when you need to, you’ll have a good long life with your battery.

-------

For me personally, I found about 5 years ago that switching to percentage from range in miles made a huge difference. The range in miles displayed in the app and on your screen is a made up marketing number and in no way reflects the actual range of the car in that moment. Your real world range is (almost) always lower than the reported range in the car/app.

There are also other tools out there like TezLab that will display your real world range in real time, this can be a better way for you to understand your true range in a given situation. However, with any EV, there are tons of factors that play into the acutal range you get (weather, hills, road surface, tire pressure, etc), it will never be perfect.

This will be my last post on this thread. I know there is a lot of white noise now but the advice I gave above is sound. A good, non-hypertechnical set of guidelines to follow to get a long life out of your battery.