Reactions to Model X reveal event

[aesculus]

But after reading THAT: https://medium.com/@gavinsblog/elon-musk-s-sleight-of-hand-ea2b078ed8e6

I was in shock about the fact that all of this can the real reason of so much engineering advance. If this is true, well I think we are in the verge to see that the sky will be the limit to the Tesla stocks price.

I am not in the market for taxi cab, self driving or not. And if this is the design goal now from what it was in 2012, I think I know where my angst is coming from:cursing:

 

[engle]

Model X Videos!

I'd love to but unfortunately I don't have time to read the 561 posts before me. I skimmed thru some and many of your detailed questions will probably be answered when you see some of my Model X details videos posted here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/wesellfremont/playlists?view_as=public

This is a better video of the 6-seater config. that Youtube wouldn't host because the Model X was playing some music it recognized:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByoUIRtadJzYNDk5Ni1zVzR4c1k

There are 25 now, and I still have another 52 to go through, deciding which ones are worth including in my 2016 Tesla Model X playlist from the Launch Event on 9/29.

 

[yesup]

Most of the technology and engineering feats mentioned are not unique to Tesla and has been done before.

But many others are.

• Hyundai Genesis has proximity based automatic trunk opening
• Many van/MPV have motorized sliding door
• While not FD, Mercedes SLS AMG and Pagani Huayra are recent examples of gull-wing door

Motorized doors and gullwing doors of course is not new.
But motorized dual hinged with proximity sensors wing door is a first.

Rolls Royce has motorized swing doors for years

It is only for automatic closing, as far as I know - and you have to press and hold a button.
Opening the front doors for you as you approach, and closing the doors automatically as you step on the brake is definitely a first.

I rather have a slightly tone done Model X that focus on being a good EV with good utility and earlier delivery date.

That would be the job of the Model 3.

If anything, what will happen to Tesla share price if Porsche puts Mission E into production. VW might actually do that because of Diesel-Gate.

If anything, I believe Tesla share price would go up.
We need more major players to get into the market for EV to become main stream - instead of a niche product right now.

 

[ankitmishra]

I'd love to but unfortunately I don't have time to read the 561 posts before me. I skimmed thru some and many of your detailed questions will probably be answered when you see some of my Model X details videos posted here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/wesellfremont/playlists?view_as=public

This is a better video of the 6-seater config. that Youtube wouldn't host because the Model X was playing some music it recognized:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByoUIRtadJzYNDk5Ni1zVzR4c1k

There are 25 now, and I still have another 52 to go through, deciding which ones are worth including in my 2016 Tesla Model X playlist from the Launch Event on 9/29.

Thanks.

 

[darthy001]

I'd love to but unfortunately I don't have time to read the 561 posts before me. I skimmed thru some and many of your detailed questions will probably be answered when you see some of my Model X details videos posted here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/wesellfremont/playlists?view_as=public

This is a better video of the 6-seater config. that Youtube wouldn't host because the Model X was playing some music it recognized:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByoUIRtadJzYNDk5Ni1zVzR4c1k

There are 25 now, and I still have another 52 to go through, deciding which ones are worth including in my 2016 Tesla Model X playlist from the Launch Event on 9/29.

Thanks, the nose looks a lot better in these night time videos.

And I had missed the existence of the middle seat armrest for the second row

 

[engle]

Thanks, the nose looks a lot better in these night time videos.

And I had missed the existence of the middle seat armrest for the second row

The middle seat armrest/console was in a Founders Series vehicle I rode in. I was told that it's removable.

Tesla people have been telling Sig reservationists after Launch Event that it will not be delivered in their vehicles. If this is truly the case, then TSLA never should have shown it to the press and to us. Someone else posted they talked to Franz and he said they are thinking of offering it later on.

Since I'm going with 6-seat configuration for my P83 and really liked this center console with arm rest and storage, I'll be pressing TSLA when it's my turn to config. I hope that will be on Tues. 10/6 or Thurs. 10/8 if there is no gap after Sig config. A number of Sigs have cancelled or deferred due to the lack of a fold-down-flat-second-row option, and TSLA is not offering their spots to people on the production list. Therefore, I suspect my prediction on first X production configuration will prove to be correct.

I'll be happy if the 2nd row armrest/console will be offered as an add-on accessory someday. I might reconsider 7-seat config if not, since I found a pull down armrest that comes out of the middle seat back in Elon's Founder 1 on 9/29.

 

[darthy001]

The middle seat armrest/console was in a Founders Series vehicle I rode in. I was told that it's removable.

Tesla people have been telling Sig reservationists after Launch Event that it will not be delivered in their vehicles. If this is truly the case, then TSLA never should have shown it to the press and to us. Someone else posted they talked to Franz and he said they are thinking of offering it later on.

Since I'm going with 6-seat configuration for my P83 and really liked this center console with arm rest and storage, I'll be pressing TSLA when it's my turn to config. I hope that will be on Tues. 10/6 or Thurs. 10/8 if there is no gap after Sig config. A number of Sigs have cancelled or deferred due to the lack of a fold-down-flat-second-row option, and TSLA is not offering their spots to people on the production list. Therefore, I suspect my prediction on first X production configuration will prove to be correct.

I'll be happy if the 2nd row armrest/console will be offered as an add-on accessory someday. I might reconsider 7-seat config if not, since I found a pull down armrest that comes out of the middle seat back in Elon's Founder 1 on 9/29.

I was referring to the foldable armrest for the middle seat in the second row in the 7-seat config. As shown at the end of your "2016 Model X: Interior"-video. That foldable armrest was new to me, and something that is kissing from my Model S...

 

[andrewket]

Thanks, the nose looks a lot better in these night time videos.

And I had missed the existence of the middle seat armrest for the second row

I missed it too... And many others did as well. Nice catch. I wonder why Tesla didn't put cup holders in the armrest? Perhaps they couldn't ensure the comfort for the middle seat passenger when stowed.

With Tesla saying they won't deliver the console that they showed at the launch event (ridiculous) and the existence of one in the 7-seat, I may go back to choosing the 7-seater. Sigh. I wonder how difficult it will be to remove the middle seat from a 7-seat config if Tesla decides to offer the console later.

 

[Yggdrasill]

I'd go for the 6-seat configuration even if Tesla doesn't ship the console. I am almost completely certain we will see third party solutions if Tesla doesn't step up.

 

[andrewket]

I'd go for the 6-seat configuration even if Tesla doesn't ship the console. I am almost completely certain we will see third party solutions if Tesla doesn't step up.

Yep, I agree. I had the same thought. But if the middle seat can be easily removed and not show signs of its prior existence, then the 7-seat option may be best. Especially if there isn't a price difference.

 

[darthy001]

Yep, I agree. I had the same thought. But if the middle seat can be easily removed and not show signs of its prior existence, then the 7-seat option may be best. Especially if there isn't a price difference.

Or simply make the middle seat foldable best of both worlds....

At least for that solution they have no excuse about having nowhere to anchor the middle seat since the outer seats would be fixed anyway. If that sentence makes sense outside of my head

 

[Julian Cox]

How many times a year do you need to fold those second row seats ?
How many days every year do you live on a planet getting dangerously warmer ?

Just FYI, while I agree with your objective I think this argument is counterproductive to its attainment. The most exciting and life-affirming thing about Tesla is that it is making inroads in beating out environmental malpractice in head to head competition. The result is to enlist the global economy in changing the world for the better instead of fighting an uphill battle against it.

People are overwhelmingly selfish. Face facts. Would you rather have one battle (the environment) or two (the environment and human nature). What if you could get selfish people to cooperate anyway, even pay and invest real money in cooperating in their rational self interest? That is what Tesla is all about. Abstinence is a dream of a Utopian dream - if you actually follow the logic of abstinence through to its conclusion then you have to get rid of people - then who exactly would you be improving the environment for?

The non-folding, or non fully reclining second row seat (they are independently reclining, how far, nobody seems to know) is miserable because it has failed to capture the selfishness of a few people that for a dew degrees of recline more and a specially shaped piece of carpet to protect the upholstery would have scored a home run. One is a prominent Tesla commentator, the other is a Tesla Motors Club Moderator (for crying out loud). That is a set-back. All be it a small one in the big picture, but a far more painful one for the environment to see Tesla back-stabbed in public by two of its leading protagonists than a thousand oil-industry and NADA shills sounding off in public on a daily basis.

Now when you look around the internet, Tesla detractors including people trying to profit from dreams of Tesla's demise are writing articles linking to the Tesla Motors Club forum and to posts from one of its Moderators as proof of Tesla's shortcomings. Do you think hack journalists and shorts care that the people in question are happy Model S Customers? That the combined billions of the legacy auto industry could not recreate the Model X even if they wanted to? The fact that many if not most high value SUVs a bought first and foremost on account of occupant safety? Of course not - they cherry pick and now they have some juicy cherries to pick on and as you can see instead of simply asking Tesla to inform them when they could expect seats that recline a bit further, these two have started an online theme among Tesla reservation holders and the broader Internet about cancelling Model X reservations, doubtless costing the company several $millions in refunds and stock holders even more than that by the time the shorts have had a feast on it.

Sadly, Tesla needs to take this kind of behavior into account as par for the course. Telling people to put away their selfishness and thoughtlessness for a higher purpose is futile. If they were capable of it you would have no need to point it out. Considering it is what it is, the practical way to advance the objective is to increase the throw of the recline actuator and offer a low cost optional carpet insert to make a giant loading bay.

The good news is that the Porsche Cayenne cannot compete with the Model X on any intersection of price, performance and occupant safety across the range and the idea of loading up a Cayenne with lumber is kinda ludicrous. I'm sure that long before the Cayenne market is eviscerated Tesla will have some additional options for those that want to haul lumber in a Model X and be well on the way to eviscerating the mid market for gasoline burning cars across the board.

 

[bonnie]

Just FYI, while I agree with your objective I think this argument is counterproductive to its attainment. The most exciting and life-affirming thing about Tesla is that it is making inroads in beating out environmental malpractice in head to head competition. The result is to enlist the global economy in changing the world for the better instead of fighting an uphill battle against it.

People are overwhelmingly selfish. Face facts. Would you rather have one battle (the environment) or two (the environment and human nature). What if you could get selfish people to cooperate anyway, even pay and invest real money in cooperating in their rational self interest? That is what Tesla is all about. Abstinence is a dream of a Utopian dream - if you actually follow the logic of abstinence through to its conclusion then you have to get rid of people - then who exactly would you be improving the environment for.

The non-folding, or non fully reclining second row seat (they are independently reclining, how far, nobody seems to know) is miserable because it has failed to capture the selfishness of a few people that for a dew degrees of recline more and a specially shaped piece of carpet to protect the upholstery would have scored a home run. One is a prominent Tesla commentator, the other is a Tesla Motors Club Moderator (for crying out loud). That is a set-back. All be it a small one in the big picture, but a far more painful one for the environment to see Tesla back-stabbed in public by two of its leading protagonists than a thousand oil-industry and NADA shills sounding off in public on a daily basis.

Now when you look around the internet, Tesla detractors including people trying to profit from dreams of Tesla's demise are writing articles linking to the Tesla Motors Club forum and to posts from one of its Moderators as proof of Tesla's shortcomings.

Sadly, Tesla needs to take this kind of behavior into account as par for the course. Telling people to put away their selfishness and thoughtlessness for a higher purpose is futile. If they were capable of it you would have no need to point it out. Considering it is what it is, the practical way to advance the objective is to increase the throw of the recline actuator and offer a low cost optional carpet insert to make a giant loading bay.

The good news is that the Porsche Cayenne cannot compete with the Model X on any intersection of price, performance and occupant safety across the range and the idea of loading up a Cayenne with lumber is kinda ludicrous. I'm sure that long before the Cayenne market is eviscerated Tesla will have some additional options for those that want to haul lumber in a Model X and be well on the way to eviscerating the mid market for gasoline burning cars across the board.

Julian, with all due respect, I think you're out of line. Both people that you have tagged with the moniker of 'selfish' have been very supportive of Tesla over the years.

Nigel, for instance, drives a Roadster and also has a Model S in his garage. He also attends multiple EV events through the year, helping Tesla sell even more vehicles. To label him as selfish because he is deciding against purchasing a vehicle that won't replace the functionality of his current ICE is beyond the pale. You're better than that. (fyi, he resigned as a mod in February)

AlMc, much of the same story.

These are thoughtful people that did not reach their decisions without careful thought. To dismiss their very painful decision as 'back stabbing' is really inappropriate. I can hardly believe what I've read here.

I guess if you could tell me you already own two Teslas & are getting a third, even though it doesn't meet your needs, then we could have a different conversation. Can you say that?

 

[Gerasimental]

Julian, with all due respect, I think you're out of line. Both people that you have tagged with the moniker of 'selfish' have been very supportive of Tesla over the years.

Nigel, for instance, drives a Roadster and also has a Model S in his garage. He also attends multiple EV events through the year, helping Tesla sell even more vehicles. To label him as selfish because he is deciding against purchasing a vehicle that won't replace the functionality of his current ICE is beyond the pale. You're better than that. (fyi, he resigned as a mod in February)

AlMc, much of the same story.

These are thoughtful people that did not reach their decisions without careful thought. To dismiss their very painful decision as 'back stabbing' is really inappropriate. I can hardly believe what I've read here.

I guess if you could tell me you already own two Teslas & are getting a third, even though it doesn't meet your needs, then we could have a different conversation. Can you say that?

To me Julian's post reads like a defence of Nigel and AIMc'd decisions regarding Model X. Simply put, he's saying that people won't, and can't be expected to, buy a Tesla if it doesn't suit their needs (real or perceived doesn't matter here). That appeared to apply to those two. The onus is on Tesla to build cars that people want to buy, not on the people to want to buy Teslas. In these 2 specific cases and this specific model, Tesla hasn't done that. No blame on the people involved, and Tesla can't please every person with every product.

 

[Julian Cox]

Bonnie.

Re-read what i wrote. I enjoyed your sympathetic approach (that makes you a nice person). I am sure you can understand that if you cancelled your Model X reservation with carefully explained reasoning in public it would do far more harm than some NADA rep or short-seller berating Tesla with any amount of invective. Same goes for Nigel. It is those that are closest to you that can hurt you the most.

Here is the post that linked me here: Tesla Motors Inc (NASDAQ:TSLA) Needs to Repeat Model X Triumph 4700 Times

(A negative stock manipulator exploiting TMC content).

 

[bonnie]

To me Julian's post reads like a defence of Nigel and AIMc'd decisions regarding Model X. Simply put, he's saying that people won't, and can't be expected to, buy a Tesla if it doesn't suit their needs (real or perceived doesn't matter here). That appeared to apply to those two. The onus is on Tesla to build cars that people want to buy, not on the people to want to buy Teslas. In these 2 specific cases and this specific model, Tesla hasn't done that. No blame on the people involved, and Tesla can't please every person with every product.

Perhaps I misread (apologies if so), but I see "The non-folding, or non fully reclining second row seat (they are independently reclining, how far, nobody seems to know) is miserable because it has failed to capture the selfishness of a few people that for a dew degrees of recline more and a specially shaped piece of carpet to protect the upholstery would have scored a home run. One is a prominent Tesla commentator, the other is a Tesla Motors Club Moderator (for crying out loud)," it's hard for me to interpret differently.

Am I wrong in interpreting this as saying 'a few selfish people - one a prominent Tesla commentator, the other a TMC moderator'?


- - - Updated - - -

Bonnie.

Re-read what i wrote. I enjoyed your sympathetic approach (that makes you a nice person). I am sure you can understand that if you cancelled your Model X reservation with carefully explained reasoning in public it would do far more harm than some NADA rep or short-seller berating Tesla with any amount of invective. Same goes for Nigel. It is those that are closest to you that can hurt you the most.

Totally agree that it causes more harm - but since they did get back in line, just waiting for a vehicle that does meet their particular needs, it's only harmful to those looking for words to twist. And those folks are always around.

Sorry for misreading the intent of your post. I'm especially touchy on this one.

 

[Julian Cox]

Totally agree that it causes more harm - but since they did get back in line, just waiting for a vehicle that does meet their particular needs, it's only harmful to those looking for words to twist. And those folks are always around.

Sorry for misreading the intent of your post. I'm especially touchy on this one.

No apologies necessary. I can be pretty rude and I am touchy for my own reasons - I can assure you that my heart is in the right place as you would define it.

It is deeply frustrating to me to see detractors exploit supporters (customers no less as you and I have both pointed out).

 

[X-Wing]

Tesla detractors including people trying to profit from dreams of Tesla's demise

Correct me if I am wrong. But wouldn't the inability to turn a profit be the ultimate reason for Tesla's demise?

If Tesla stock triples tomorrow, Tesla won't magically have more cash. Like wise if Tesla stock halve next week. They would still have the same financial fundamental and operating expenses. Though their ability to borrow may change.

I have not really come across Tesla detractors on this forum. I see a lot more people long Tesla and some even cherry pick data to support some dubious conclusions on this forum.

If anything it is the fanatical fans that are hurting Tesla. For someone like me that is new to the brand it can be quite off putting.

The reality is that if Tesla wants my money, they have to earn it. They gotta build desirable products that consumers want to buy. Perhaps I do not fit into their target market for the Model X. But that also means they are missing out a huge potential revenue stream. Evidently by the posts of many perspective buyers, the 2nd row is an issue that they have to address.

Ironically, once Tesla do come out with the folding 2nd row, the early adapters will likely suffer from some depreciation from having fixed seats.

 

[omarsultan]

One of the biggest sins of a start-up is to try and build everything into the initial release of a product in an attempt to keep everyone happy. The result is inevitably added complexity, added cost, and slipping timelines. Companies inevitably run out of working capital because, even if they do get something to market is it late and costs more than expected.

The currently popular way of focusing product development is to focus on a minimum viable product. It is a product that meets the minimum requirements of a segment of the target market. It allows the company to generate revenue and gain useful insight from buyers and non-buyers on how to iterate the product. A deeper discussion of MVP is probably more info than many here care to spend time reading, but I find the following graphic useful in helping execs wrap their minds around the concept:

I think Tesla has done the right thing with the MX in not trying to be all things to all people out the door, but, instead, focusing on a single buyer use case, delivering on that and moving on. In this case, it seems they have focused on solving the problem of moving large numbers of people, whether its a big family or the basketball team, and their stuff around, and optimized the initial iteration of the vehicle to that purpose. If you are part of the Home Depot crowd, you are probably feeling disappointed and that is understandable, but from a product mgmt perspective, its the right call. I will predict, they get the supplier and engineering issues worked out and there will be an iteration of the MX that is optimized for the the Home Depot lumber run. However, it would have been foolish to continue to delay the entire product launch and product revenue for magical do-it-all 2nd row seats when they are not a requirement for a portion of your target audience. Look at it this way, there are reportedly 30K MX reservations; if half of those potential buyers don't view folding second row seats as a critical item, that ~$1.5B in revenue and ~$375M gross profit you are deferring and putting at risk for no good reason.

 

[anticitizen13.7]

I have to say that the Model X reveal generated a lot more drama than I expected. What a roller coaster.

I cannot remember any product launch like this… not even from Apple.