Real scare with Autosteer!

[BobV]

Lane departure assist was in full effect this morning on my usual commute via a limited-access highway with good markings. My almost-daily use of Autopilot on this stretch of road has been unremarkable to date. This morning, the car jogged hard left from the right-hand lane into the left-hand lane immediately before the take-over-now alarm sounded. Both dashed-left and solid-right lane markers were being tracked immediately prior to the uncommanded lane change. The car stopped tracking the left-hand markers, but was still showing that it was tracking the right-hand marker when it swerved and crossed into the left-hand lane. There were no other cars in the immediate vicinity.

I have noticed that AP has been getting a bit squirrelly since the leaves have come off of the trees and when the sun is low in the sky. It seems to be less reliable in situations where there are many and various hard shadows perpendicular to the direction of travel.

 

[Jaff]

I agree with you msnow. Although the Autopilot is a cool feature on the Model S, to me, it is a marginal feature when compared with the "amazingness" of the vehicle as a whole.

I've had similar situations although no one was in the car with me. I don't find AP relaxing or safer. Using it less and less as the novelty wares off.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

@Footbag, @BobV, can you please report your experiences as well to [email protected]?!

They are watching this thread already as I linked to it in my report to them; in my case, Tech Support Specialists responded to my email and asked for additional details - precise location, time, road conditions, etc. - to help with further diagnosis.

 

[BobV]

@Footbag, @BobV, can you please report your experiences as well to [email protected]?!

They are watching this thread already as I linked to it in my report to them; in my case, Tech Support Specialists responded to my email and asked for additional details - precise location, time, road conditions, etc. - to help with further diagnosis.

Can do. I'll pull my dashcam video this evening and pass that on, too.

 

[Ugliest1]

I find that driving with your hands at 10 and 2 is still the best plan.

No criticism here - I'm just letting people know one driver instructor's comments (I had not heard about this either until reading it last month - Oct 9th newspaper):

"Driver hand position is recommended to be 9 and 3 o’clock, instead of the old rule of 10 and 2. Airbags are designed to open in a crash before the driver can blink, and the lower hand position is advisable to prevent drivers from being seriously injured."
(source: Steve Wallace: You've got questions, here are the answers)

 

[msnow]

I agree with you msnow. Although the Autopilot is a cool feature on the Model S, to me, it is a marginal feature when compared with the "amazingness" of the vehicle as a whole.

I agree and it is an awesome vehicle. For me I rarely get fatigued except for maybe the monotony of a long stretch of a boring road and knowing that AP could misinterpret the data it's getting at any moment doesn't relax me. If anything it's the opposite. Also, it's such a great handling car it's much more fun for me to actually drive it.

 

[Max*]

It's clear to me that at this point AP is best suited for long trips on well marked freeways and divided highways with no cross traffic, or stop and go freeway traffic at low speeds. Those are driving situations where AP can reduce driver fatigue. AP is not appropriate for most other driving situations, and if it is used the driver has to pay close attention and keep their hands on or very close to the wheel and be ready to take over instantly.
While AP is going to improve very rapidly, with the current sensor suite I just can't see it being safe to use outside of the two driving situations I describe above.
The current AP is a big step towards autonomous driving, and I admire Tesla for pushing forward and working hard to advance the technology. In a few years we will look back on the current AP capabilities and consider them extremely basic.

I agree completely.

 

[beeeerock]

With light hands anywhere on the wheel you can squeeze and stop the wheel from rotating into ramp, truck, exit, cones, etc. When caught soon enough it does not take much rotation length to do the correct action but you have to catch it soon.

I've found that when AP decides to do something wrong, it does it in a big hurry. If you've got your hands on the wheel even lightly, the quick movement will be enough to alert you that something is wrong and you'd probably be safe to grab the wheel tight even if you weren't paying full attention to the road! (well, that might be a slight over-statement, but you get my meaning...) Proper and safe AP behaviour is subtle and gentle movements of the wheel. Sudden movements guarantee a serious event is about to unfold, whether caused incorrectly by AP or triggered by vehicles around you doing some unexpected. Either way, you'll probably want to take control immediately.

I also had a frightening experience with AP yesterday. I was letting a friend drive the car and experience it. Good lane markings, AP on, drivers hands were hovering over the wheel (when on the wheel, he would constantly/unwittingly disengage AP), when out of the blue, the car beeped, put up that red prompt to take over immediately, and swerved hard into the next rightmost lane.

I found my shoulders would get tired from me trying to keep my hands on the wheel but not put enough weight on wheel to disengage the function. Through the km's I've found that the real trick is to keep the arms equally balance. The inertial drag of your arms doesn't seem to be enough to kick it out, but unbalancing the dampening effect of your arms will drop it out. You've probably worked this out yourself already, but it seems to be a problem new users experience, as illustrated by your friend.

No criticism here - I'm just letting people know one driver instructor's comments (I had not heard about this either until reading it last month - Oct 9th newspaper):

"Driver hand position is recommended to be 9 and 3 o’clock, instead of the old rule of 10 and 2. Airbags are designed to open in a crash before the driver can blink, and the lower hand position is advisable to prevent drivers from being seriously injured."
(source: Steve Wallace: You've got questions, here are the answers)

I've heard this too. Perhaps 10 and 2 is the wrong description... I keep my hands where the shape of the wheel seems to want them to rest. Maybe 9:45 and 2:15? ;-)

Lower down is uncomfortable for me and might be the cause of an accident if I remove a hand to rest an arm... LOL

 

[Footbag]

@Footbag, @BobV, can you please report your experiences as well to [email protected]?!

Already done.

 

[Ingineer]

I had a similar experience on the Bay Bridge going West. I was in the far left lane (no lane markings but a substantial curb). I've noticed it biases right when that big curb is observed by the sonars. It was travelling fine other than the right bias when all the sudden it jerked to the right (luckily no traffic in the adjacent right lane). I couldn't see any reason for this! The car was half out the lane before I grabbed the wheel. That's the first and only time (so far) that AP really scared me. My passengers were even more upset!

For the time being, I'm no longer going to use it unless both lane markings are clear, and probably not in situations like the left lane of the Bay Bridge where there is a big curb.

 

[PGeer]

I'm waiting for my X and haven't experienced AP yet, but am curious about collision avoidance. If AP senses a head-on, and the driver is a fraction of a second slower in seeing it than the cameras and squeezes the wheel, would that defeat the life-saving maneuver?

 

[Karma]

Not sure if this occurred near home for you or not, but any chance at trying to re-create the event? That would probably help to eliminate some of the questions.

 

[Cyclone]

No criticism here - I'm just letting people know one driver instructor's comments (I had not heard about this either until reading it last month - Oct 9th newspaper):

"Driver hand position is recommended to be 9 and 3 o’clock, instead of the old rule of 10 and 2. Airbags are designed to open in a crash before the driver can blink, and the lower hand position is advisable to prevent drivers from being seriously injured."
(source: Steve Wallace: You've got questions, here are the answers)

Meanwhile, 50+% of my driving is at 8 and 4! They actually told us that in Florida during driving classes to do that for airbag-equipped vehicles.

 

[scottf200]

I'm waiting for my X and haven't experienced AP yet, but am curious about collision avoidance. If AP senses a head-on, and the driver is a fraction of a second slower in seeing it than the cameras and squeezes the wheel, would that defeat the life-saving maneuver?

I would think it would brake and not believe it could turn. Minimize impact. I recall EM answer a question about this when AP was introduced. Bloomberg interview?

I also don't think people can move their foot that fast to the brake. Nor hand from lap to steering wheel. I bet driving simulators would be real eye opening (or closing).

 

[JenniferQ]

I had a similar experience on the Bay Bridge going West. I was in the far left lane (no lane markings but a substantial curb). I've noticed it biases right when that big curb is observed by the sonars. It was travelling fine other than the right bias when all the sudden it jerked to the right (luckily no traffic in the adjacent right lane). I couldn't see any reason for this! The car was half out the lane before I grabbed the wheel. That's the first and only time (so far) that AP really scared me. My passengers were even more upset!

For the time being, I'm no longer going to use it unless both lane markings are clear, and probably not in situations like the left lane of the Bay Bridge where there is a big curb.

I find is does the same thing in the HOV lanes when there is a wall to my left. It really doesn't like it and seems to think it's a barrier to avoid rather than to travel safely beside.

 

[qqragoon]

I liken it to having a learner driver at the wheel. I am always ready to take over and always looking out for trouble spots. Lately, I have been having trouble with it changing lanes. Used to do it just fine, but many times over the past week I put the indicator on after checking that it's clear, and car just ignores it and stays in the lane. Not sure what's changed?

This happened to me after an unsuccessful lane changing. The car changed its mind in the middle of lane changing and switched back to the original lane dramatically with warning. I am not sure what was happened. Since then, the lane changing did not work anymore. On the second day, I checked the lane changing setting. It was set to OFF (maybe by the incident?! or the setting turned itself OFF during the lane changing?!). It works fine now after turn it ON.

 

[BobV]

Following up from my earlier post #21

The interesting moment is 16 seconds in.

 

[JenniferQ]

This happened to me after an unsuccessful lane changing. The car changed its mind in the middle of lane changing and switched back to the original lane dramatically with warning. I am not sure what was happened. Since then, the lane changing did not work anymore. On the second day, I checked the lane changing setting. It was set to OFF (maybe by the incident?! or the setting turned itself OFF during the lane changing?!). It works fine now after turn it ON.

Hmm. I will check that then, but I doubt that's my problem because it did change lanes fine the next day and a few times between when it wouldn't.

 

[brec]

Post #21:

... the car jogged hard left from the right-hand lane into the left-hand lane immediately before the take-over-now alarm sounded. ...

Following up from my earlier post #21

The interesting moment is 16 seconds in.

Eh? I can't see any hard left into the left-hand lane. I can't see anything except a momentary discontinuation of linear travel with the car never leaving its lane. I even slowed the video to 1/4 speed to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

I'm afraid I don't understand the meaning of the "Autopilot nominal" and "Marker position after alert" overlays.

 

[scottf200]

Post #21:
Eh? I can't see any hard left into the left-hand lane. I can't see anything except a momentary discontinuation of linear travel with the car never leaving its lane. I even slowed the video to 1/4 speed to make sure I wasn't missing anything.
I'm afraid I don't understand the meaning of the "Autopilot nominal" and "Marker position after alert" overlays.

It is related to where the dashed line was on the hood.
Image: http://i.imgur.com/KX9mXBu.png