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Recommended charge percentage for S 60 (with 75 kW battery)

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by grayguy, Dec 11, 2016.

  1. grayguy

    grayguy Member

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    I've seen several posts regarding Tesla's recommendation to only charge the battery to ~90% got daily use to preserve battery health, but I am wondering if this applies to software locked models like the S 60?

    It would seem to my non electrical engineer mind that even at 100% charge an S 60 is only at 80-85% charge capacity in terms of total cells being used on the battery. I've seen others allude to this on other posts, but was wondering if this has been confirmed by Tesla?
     
  2. nagypite

    nagypite Member

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    The 60 is very good, because it has a 75kw battery and you can charge it to 100% daily (dont have to worry for battery degradation) and the charging is very fast. You can charge with more than 30kw/h at 99% because the 100% is only 80%
     
    • Helpful x 1
  3. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    this topic has been covered, Tesla says 'fine to charge a locked 60 to 100% all the time'
    ..considering that's only an 80% real capacity charge... it makes sense there'd be less taper time and zooom all the way to the top

    IMHO All cars should carry 10% extra (user inaccessible) capacity at the top for this reason..
    and battery management could roll in the capacity as battery degrades over time keeping the customer happier

    Maybe they do that already, and is one of the reasons why Tesla is reporting very good degradation stats for the industry.. it's 'managed degradation'... degradation of the pack, not raw cells

    imagine that! programmable degradation
     
  4. hill

    hill Member

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    Best of all - 80% typically means no throttle down as one approaches (80%) full
    ;)
    .
     
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  5. tvcraig

    tvcraig Member

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    Tesla told me that 100% is not fine. They still recommend 80-90% for the 60D.
     
  6. hill

    hill Member

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    Well - from the article just 2 posts prior - either Electrik talked to someone at Tesla that doesn't know what they're talking about, or the 'someone' at Tesla who said they still recommend 80-90% doesn't know what they're talking about. The drama continues.
    :p
    .
     
  7. Maximapolak

    Maximapolak Member

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    Of course...they want you to upgrade the battery to the 75...
     
  8. tvcraig

    tvcraig Member

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    There was no discussion of upgrading the battery. I simply asked about charging to 100%, citing the forums stating that it was ok. The person who delivered my car stated that they were told that the extra 15% is dormant, with minimal charge in the battery just to keep it healthy. I guess it just comes down to who you truly want to believe. I will lean towards better safe than sorry since I don't need 210 miles of range every day.
     
  9. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    Ultimately it seems like what matters is what Tesla will officially tell you in writing. And so far, the most consistent story there is "charge to 90%, charge to 100% repeatedly may degrade range". But of course, "we" know that it's the top 15% that's locked out in the S60, at least currently, so it shouldn't be too bad to charge it to 100% on a regular basis.

    But doing so, you might be on your own if you ever want to file a warranty claim for unreasonable battery degradation, as from a legal standpoint they can simply point to your charging habits being contrary to their recommendations and specifically warned to cause battery degradation.
     
  10. dinkoh

    dinkoh Member

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    I used to consistently get 211, now 209 or 207. It's been almost three months of daily driving. Charge 100% every other day.
     
  11. Mickie

    Mickie Member

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    IMG_0270.PNG I personally would listen to the posters saying to err on the side of caution and not give Tesla ammunition against a possible but unlikely warranty claim. If it was kosher with Tesla to charge new 60s to 100% daily, then why does the car pop a warning up after a few 100% charges warning of battery degradation, and why does the car and the app have daily and trip limits.

    With that said, I concur with the people on here that say it's not harmful to charge a 60 to 100%, but I do believe it's harmful to a warranty claim if there was any premature degradation, for any reason.
     
  12. Steve1081

    Steve1081 Member

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    I find this whole debate very interesting... To be honest I knew nothing about not charging to 100% each time and just looked at max range when I was purchasing. After a month of ownership and a better understanding of how an electric car is used in a real world situation the limited 60 seems like a fantastic deal if you are buying new. If buying CPO 99% of the cars get unlocked prior to sale anyway so there is no debate.

    My gut is that it would be overly complicated to keep a section of the battery dormant and that the whole pack is used and I think some real world supercharging and regen behavior more or less confirm that.

    That being said; I doubt Tesla will ever say it is ok to charge it to 100% because that would discourage sales of 75kw cars. So for us forum types we would always be worried.

    However, if you are only going to own your car while it is under warranty I would go for it. I don't think Tesla would be able to void a warranty over charging to 100% anyway.
     
  13. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    After reading the original wk057 thread pointing out the 85 is 80,701wH and his cell testing, I think that's unlikely.

    Having said that, I kind of like the other idea you had, of bringing in additional capacity as the battery degrades. Disc drives and RAM did that for a while.
     
  14. scottm

    scottm Active Member

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    ..they still do. Bad sector mapping.. spare sectors. No user awareness this is going on. And that's the point.

    Manufacturer KNOWS product likelihood of failure increases over time and is proportional to use... and the cheapest solution is to over-provision with more of the same stuff in the initial packaging, and just put it into service if/when/as needed.
     
  15. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    Exactly. And when parts fail to meet the advertised capacity/performance, they are binned and sold as lower end parts.
     
  16. tpham07

    tpham07 Member

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    The only reason Tesla is not officially recommending 100% for the 60 is because there are 2 versions of the 60 out there (one without a 75kwh battery) and they wanna avoid confusion plus it would contradict the other marketing they have with the larger battery sizes. (putting out different instructions based on models is just confusing). It's a lot easier to tell everyone 90%.

    That being said when my S 60 was delivered my DS charged it to 100% for me without me asking.
     
  17. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    Umm, my 100D was also charged to 100% when it was delivered on friday. I don't think that means any implied statement.
     

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