Oh I get it. They were incentivized to buy ‘nothing’ for less than it would cost when it was something. For that money, to date they’ve received nothing. Quite unlike AP buyers. I think those that purchased FSD at configure, on the basis of ‘it’ll be more later’ should not pay more than someone buying it at any time before it’s activated.
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Reduced price Autopilot & FSD for existing owners announced March 1st
- Thread starter vjason
- Start date
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
They told you the current pricing for buying those features after the sale. The did not lock themselves into never adjusting their pricing - that's ludicrous to think they would be bound to one price forever!
Maybe you would be happier with a Chevy Bolt? Nobody is forcing you to do anything - you just feel entitled to something that was never promised to you. If you want to pay the larger price under the old pricing model, I'm sure you could work that out with Tesla.
I’d agree if the product is actually available for use. These people received zero value for their money. That same zero value is being sold for less today. This opinion applies only to FSD.
Prices change quickly on commodity goods. Cars are a bit different and the way Tesla dices things will likely do more harm than good. They could have structured this much better. Their sales strategy is "see what sticks", that is proven with the AWD pricing like a ping pong. Not good for buyer confidence in sort time frames.
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
That's simply not true. What Tesla was selling was the right to use FSD when it's available. They still retain that right they purchased. It's well known in the world of valuation that the value of a certain right can change over time. There is no rule that says an entity needs to sell the same right for the same cost forever. Every transaction stands alone, every transaction is independent of future transactions.
I'm surprised I need to explain this.
The fact is that before the purchased item was ever available to deliver, the price went down and not up. that is misleading statement.They told you the current pricing for buying those features after the sale. The did not lock themselves into never adjusting their pricing - that's ludicrous to think they would be bound to one price forever!
Maybe you would be happier with a Chevy Bolt? Nobody is forcing you to do anything - you just feel entitled to something that was never promised to you. If you want to pay the larger price under the old pricing model, I'm sure you could work that out with Tesla.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Yes but what prompted the transaction?
Tesla, to date has been unjustly enriched on the back of a key element of the transaction. Their prompt of ‘it will cost more later’. They placed a condition in the transaction. That price is only good now, after it will cost more. It prompted some to pay more than they would have if no such condition existed. It’s the causation of the contract at issue, and that has to fall at the feet of Tesla.
Each transaction does stand alone. There appears to be several prompted ones. Again, the contracted feature is still not available. That makes it distinguishable.
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It's a screen shot from the configurator, saying FSD $3,000 now, $5,000 if added after delivery.
The statement that caused me to buy it, and now proved wrong!
C141medic
Active Member
Entertain me for a minute with this hypothetical situation. A manufacturer (can be any manufacturer) is advertising a “widget” and states get it today at the fantastic price of $1000 and beat the price increase because it will cost you more in the future. So, I purchase the widget but they don’t deliver it and tell me don’t worry it’ll be available soon. A year passes and still no widget. At that point they re-advertise the same widget for $500 but still don’t have it available for delivery. So, what do you think the people who purchased the widget, a year ago, at $1000 would expect and should do? I think any reasonable person knows the answer and I’ll leave it at that.
I get the distinction between the situations for people who purchased EAP and those who purchased FSD.
But the problem applies to EAP too. It’s a beta. They said if you buy this beta now it’ll be only $5k, but if you wait until later it will be $7k. Fast forward a mere 3 months in my case (others even less)... and it’s still a beta and they’re now offering EAP for ~ $3k to people who bought at the same time as me and were told later it would be $7k for EAP (plus $4k for FSD). (Really they’re offering them something slightly less than EAP for $2k. Same thing.) I’m not saying they owe me something. I’m saying it leaves a bad taste for them to offer an amazing deal to people who previously bought no software, while offering a meh deal to people who paid $5k before and no deal to people who paid $8k before. They’re going to do what they’re going to do, but they should realize people feel slighted. (And I for one don’t care what trolls like @StealthP3D think, who seems more upset at the upset people than the upset people are at Tesla.). And no it wasn’t worth $2k to have EAP for 3 months (especially compared to the current offer for people who previously declined... AP for life for $2k).
But the problem applies to EAP too. It’s a beta. They said if you buy this beta now it’ll be only $5k, but if you wait until later it will be $7k. Fast forward a mere 3 months in my case (others even less)... and it’s still a beta and they’re now offering EAP for ~ $3k to people who bought at the same time as me and were told later it would be $7k for EAP (plus $4k for FSD). (Really they’re offering them something slightly less than EAP for $2k. Same thing.) I’m not saying they owe me something. I’m saying it leaves a bad taste for them to offer an amazing deal to people who previously bought no software, while offering a meh deal to people who paid $5k before and no deal to people who paid $8k before. They’re going to do what they’re going to do, but they should realize people feel slighted. (And I for one don’t care what trolls like @StealthP3D think, who seems more upset at the upset people than the upset people are at Tesla.). And no it wasn’t worth $2k to have EAP for 3 months (especially compared to the current offer for people who previously declined... AP for life for $2k).
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
** Yawn **...not trolling, just calling it how I see it.
I'm surprised people get so upset over the little things in life. I was taught to look forward, not complain and moan about nothing.
Can we all agree StealthP3D is trolling here? My favorite part was the reference to "the world of valuation". Great stuff.
Valuation might be appropriate to a conversation about purchasing ownership of a company or piece of intellectual property, but that's not what any of us are doing. We are buying a car. Or, you could make a solid case we are licensing software in the particular use case we're discussing. But none of that makes your comments any more applicable. We're not options trading here either.
Your straw man argument of "There is no rule..." was also a joy -- funny how nobody has suggested Tesla had to fix pricing forever but regardless, you do a great job knocking that straw man down regardless...well played!
Of course they can change the price. But in the real world I live in, if I pre-order something and the price is lower at launch, I'm getting a refund. Usually I don't even have to ask -- the company just does the right thing. I'm surprised such a wizard in economics such as yourself accepts such mistreatment, but to each his own.
I joke of course, but I'm assuming with your adept use of condescension that you'll enjoy the response.
Edit: For those that don't know, you can 'ignore' people (me or trolls) by clicking their username on a post and finding the 'ignore' feature.
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I hear you. I just don't think the label 'beta' is a useful way to apply value to the feature. EAP is here and has been for a long time. Many of us use it every day. It is legitimate software providing real-world value and sticking a label of 'beta' on it doesn't change that fact. The beta label is probably more to encourage vigilance while it is engaged, but does it make it somehow not worthy of payment? I think that's a stretch.
The fact is, they are selling the beta as the feature and always have been. Beta doesn't have to mean what you seem to want it to mean -- that it isn't ready/worthy of purchase. I get why you might feel that way, but it doesn't really reflect the real world. Software is always improving and the 'beta' label is arbitrary.
All that said, I still think they should just give FSD to recent EAP purchasers and wherever that cutoff is (a month?), I think they should offer a free year of supercharging or something similar for people that bought < 3 months ago...just a good will gesture, not because they have to but because they need current owners to keep shilling for them -- doubly so now that they are closing the showrooms.
Also, as an aside, sticking to a $3k FSD upgrade price would have eliminated the contention with early FSD purchasers like me. Or cutting them the $1k back. They chose door #3, at least so far, which I think is a big mistake.
Yes, most beta personalities just roll over, knuckle under and say ‘oh well, move on’. They typically explain their inability to stand up for themselves or what’s right by claiming to not ‘sweat the small stuff’ as you’ve alluded to. Most don’t find several thousand dollars small stuff.
Anyway, I agreed with some of what you said in relation to entitlements. Not every instance of someone saying ‘this is bs’ can be cast aside and dismissed as whining. Sometimes you need to be able to say ‘yes in this case, that is crap’ even if it leads to a beta’s worst nightmare, which is a confrontation. It’s always easier to disguise that cowardice with various versions of ‘who cares, it’s not a big deal, they’re right, not worth the time etc’. They all lead to the same thing: sucking it up and taking it.
I’ve no skin in this. I didn’t order AP or FSD. I do however understand those that overpaid for FSD, due to a promised condition in the contract, not wanting to bend over and grab their ankles while Elon launches another rocket.
EricUSC
Member
I take this Tweet from Elon as meaning that everyone who pre-paid $3k will get $1k back.
Elon Musk on Twitter
I’m sure we’ll be able to request at least this much back once the dust settles.
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