[RESOLVED] Hmm, how annoyed should I be with a remanufactured powerwall?

[BrettS]

So I mentioned this briefly in another thread, but on install day, as soon as my powerwalls were turned on, we noticed that one of them was making a weird noise. It sounded almost, but not quite like something was hitting a fan blade as it spun. The installer created a support ticket for it. They came out this afternoon with a whole new powerwall and replaced the one that was making noise. As they were installing it I noticed that the original powerwall had a black sticker with the specs and serial number and such and the replacement one had a white sticker. I didn’t think too much of it at the time, but I got curious this evening so I took a closer look at the stickers and I realized that the one they just installed today says that it is a remanufactured unit.

I realize that normally warranty replacements are done with remanufactured units, but in this case since the powerwall was defective from the moment it was powered on I feel like it would be more appropriate to replace with a brand new unit.

I realize that the remanufactured unit will have the same warranty as a new unit would, but I don’t know what the state of the batteries is. For all I know these batteries are three years old and belong to a unit that had a cooling system failure and the replaced the cooling system, but didn’t replace the batteries. If I knew that the remanufactured units all got new batteries then I would be much less annoyed with it, but I don’t know if that’s the case and I don’t know that anyone knows or if Tesla would even tell me if that’s what they do with remanufactured units.

What do you guys think? Should I just live with it or should I call Tesla tomorrow and see if they’ll replace it with a new unit?

 

[mjptech]

What do you guys think? Should I just live with it or should I call Tesla tomorrow and see if they’ll replace it with a new unit?

I would definitely call, but expect an answer you're not going to like. If I ever encounter anything DOA, I absolutely want it replaced with a brand new unit (at least within the first 30 days, like most do, if not the first year with some companies).

 

[BrettS]

I would definitely call, but expect an answer you're not going to like. If I ever encounter anything DOA, I absolutely want it replaced with a brand new unit (at least within the first 30 days, like most do, if not there first year with some companies).

The final payment for the system hasn’t even been made yet, so I may be able to withhold payment if I really want to push it. But I’m not sure if it’s really worth going that far or not.

 

[mjptech]

The final payment for the system hasn’t even been made yet, so I may be able to withhold payment if I really want to push it. But I’m not sure if it’s really worth going that far or not.

Definitely can't hurt to call and see what they say. They'd have to do another truck roll out and spend labor to swap.. not sure how responsive Tesla will be with that. And, it also depends on who you get on the other end of the line.

But, it's just a phone call, so, why not?

 

[bmah]

What do you guys think? Should I just live with it or should I call Tesla tomorrow and see if they’ll replace it with a new unit?

I would call and ask if it's possible to have a new Powerwall to replace your new (but DOA) unit. The worst they can say is "no". We all know that batteries degrade over time, so there is a difference between a unit that's new and one that's been in the field for awhile (assuming the same batteries). If they won't bring in a new unit, then asking about whether the batteries are new or not is a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

Bruce.

PS. Assuming you ask politely and don't come on like a raving lunatic. The fact that I mention this is more a statement of the times we live in nowadays, rather than any reflection on you personally.

 

[jjrandorin]

Since your install is so new, I think its reasonable to be uncomfortable with a remanufactured unit. If this was several months in, then I would expect a re manufactured unit. Since you are basically within 30 days, I would want a new one, but I would be like @bmah and ask in a "politely insistent" way/

I would say that "I noticed this was remanufactured, and my original one was DOA basically, and is not even 30 days old. Yes, I understand the warranty is the same, but this makes me very very uncomfortable. Is there anyone I can escalate to to get this replaced with a new unit since it was within 30 days? Thank you so much for your help...."

Not that you need advice on this, just saying how I would approach it, but yes, I would definitely approach it because of how new it is, and I think thats reasonable.

 

[BrettS]

Well, just to follow up on this I called support and explained my issue to the technician. He understood what I was saying and said that he agrees that it doesn’t make sense to replace a brand new unit with a remanufactured unit, but he also said that he’s never run into this before, so he’s not sure what can be done or even what the proper procedure here is. He said that he would escalate my concern to the warranty department and I should expect to hear something back by the middle of next week.

I am financing this system through Mosaic and after the system was installed they paid Tesla about 80% of the price of the system. I spoke with Mosaic today and let them know that I didn’t want them to make the final payment until after I approved it, because I do want to keep that as leverage if the warranty department doesn’t think that replacing the powerwall with a new one would be prudent.

I’ll keep you updated when I hear back.

 

[BrettS]

So it’s been a little while, but I just wanted to post the conclusion of this. It took about a week and a half or so, but tesla support finally called back and let me know that they talked to the powers that be and that their policy was to replace failed powerwalls with refurbished units and they did not plan to replace this refurbished unit. I had had some additional time to think about it in the mean time and I decided that it really didn’t make sense for me to pay full price for a refurbished unit. So I (very nicely and calmly) explained to the support person that I felt pretty strongly about this and I was willing to go so far as to withhold the final payment and/or take this to arbitration if necessary. She said that she understood how I felt and she would pass my concerns on. Apparently since I mentioned withholding payment she also said that she would email my project manager to keep them apprised of the situation.

I went ahead and composed a fairly detailed email outlining my concerns with not knowing the age of the batteries on the refurbished unit, the fact that my original unit was dead out of the box and had never worked, and that it felt like I was paying full price for a refurbished powerwall. I sent the email to my project manager who called me back right away to get some additional details from me. She said that she would make some calls and see what she could do for me.

The project manager was really my savior in all of this. She called back a few days later to let me know that she was able to get them (whoever them is) to agree to replace the refurbished powerwall with a new one. She said it might take a little while to get the new unit allocated in the warehouse and the install scheduled.

And they are now at my house doing the replacement right now

In the end I feel a little bad about insisting on the replacement and I feel that if the powerwall had died a month or even a week into service I probably would have had a much weaker argument, but given the fact that the original unit was literally DOA I felt that it made sense to replace it with a new unit.

 

[BrettS]

And suddenly I’m feeling much better about pushing for the replacement. The front of the refurbished unit was, of course, all shiny and perfect, but I didn’t see the back when they originally installed it. I just saw the back now as they were swapping out the units and it was pretty clear that the refurbished unit was definitely a bit older. There were rust stains near most of the screws and the wall bracket was slightly different than the bracket on the new unit. Apparently there was a small design change at some point.

 

[zƬesla]

Don’t feel bad. There is an implied expectation they failed to meet originally. Glad it was resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[cridinger82]

i def wouldn't feel bad considering you bought something new, and it should have been a new one they installed. your contract doesn't state refurbished powerwall. arbitration would have def seen it in your favor... and they knew that as well!

 

[wjgjr]

i def wouldn't feel bad considering you bought something new, and it should have been a new one they installed. your contract doesn't state refurbished powerwall. arbitration would have def seen it in your favor... and they knew that as well!

Completely agree. The project was not completed, and new PWs were part of the agreed project. Whatever Tesla's policy may be can't change the contract. Had it failed right after commissioning (plus any time provided to request a refund or fixes for defects), then - as much as it would suck - Tesla would probably have had the right to install a refurbished unit. But not while the project is ongoing. It would be like if they showed up and cracked a solar panel somehow during the install, then insisted they could toss in an used one that had been pulled off another house.

 

[jjrandorin]

i def wouldn't feel bad considering you bought something new, and it should have been a new one they installed. your contract doesn't state refurbished powerwall. arbitration would have def seen it in your favor... and they knew that as well!

+100

Dont feel bad at all. Not that you need any validation, but I think you handled that 1000% in the correct manner. Its exactly how I would have handled it. Your position that you are paying for a new unit and that was never delivered out of the box, so it should be replaced with a new unit was a completely valid one, and one I think most of us would push for.

If this was 4 months out, then its a bit different (unlucky but different). Yours failed during the "return period" so should be replaced with new. In the end, its unfortunate you had to escalate it to get "the right thing" done, BUT in the end, the right thing was done, so thats kudos to whoever pushed that through for you.

 

[imjustdave]

Don't feel bad. That was a blatant bait and switch scenario and borderline THEFT. Yes I said it Theft of your money.

I would think of it this way... you go to a store to buy a cell phone you can do new for 1K or referb for $800 you decide on a New one. you open it up and it won't even turn on, and the clerk goes Oh so sorry here this one works... and give you a Referb for the same 1k price. And more importantly doesn't tell you and you never approved it.

The contract you agreed to was 2 NEW units.
Not 1 new and 1 referb.

Now by the sounds of what you were saying maybe the first one could have been fixed, could have simply been a fan not properly seated in a holder - clip and it popped out during shipping but gone are the days of opening something up, let alone fixing. If they did that and could show me what they did I would take something like that as good and approve.

 

[bob_p]

It's very possible this was a very unusual circumstance - a brand new PowerWall failing before the installation was completed and the system as commissioned for use.

It's understandable that Tesla will replace a damaged or failed PowerWall with a refurbished unit. This is pretty standard in the electronics/computer industry - and what Tesla has done when replacing batteries in their vehicles.

But to have a unit fail during installation may not come up very often - and could have required Tesla Energy staff to work out the proper response in this situation - and they eventually did, by agreeing to provide a new PowerWall, when one becomes available.

We had 4 PowerWalls installed with our solar panels late last year, and if any of those components had failed prior to the system receiving PTO (Permission To Operate), we would have insisted a new replacement - not a refurbished unit...

 

[mjptech]

...It's understandable that Tesla will replace a damaged or failed PowerWall with a refurbished unit. This is pretty standard in the electronics/computer industry - and what Tesla has done when replacing batteries in their vehicles....

Having worked in the tech industry since the 90s, DOA/Failure on install are all replaced by a new product, no questions... Never refurbished. Cars are a little different - you're not guaranteed to get a brand new component off the line when there's a failure...

But, a Powerwall isn't a car.. it's a piece of electronic gear, and a DOA product is a DOA product.. it should have been swapped with a new one from the start.

 

[chinokie]

What do you guys think? Should I just live with it or should I call Tesla tomorrow and see if they’ll replace it with a new unit?

Here's what a person could do:

-Maintain good documentation...
-Threaten to withhold payment, if they don't budge...
-Withhold the payment and hire an attorney to write a letter. If they don't budge...
(Thats's where I would give up)
-Hire an attorney and sue.​

Here's my thinking on an early PW failure. Most failures are probably going to be fan, low voltage power supplies, controllers or something during assembly). The batterie is probably very predictable once it leave the factory. With that said, the difference between the PW they replaced and the PW they installed is probably the replacement doesn't have the foreign object rubbing on a moving part.

The problem is the unknown. Sure, it's covered during the warranty period like a new one but you hope it doesn't die just after warranty. And you just don't know why the replacement battery was returned.

 

[niveknow]

... or I might have asked for 50-70% rebate on the value of the PW in question. =) The batteries are suppose to be guaranteed for a certain expected life which means Tesla would have this obligation if something were to happen say a few years down the road. I figured 50-70% of value may be fair considering the material, truck roll/labor and anything else that it would have cost Tesla to go back to your pocket.

How many of you guys would pay for 50-70% off a PW if it carries the same warranty and support. Call it an Open-box table at your local Tesla store. lol

 

[BrettS]

... or I might have asked for 50-70% rebate on the value of the PW in question. =) The batteries are suppose to be guaranteed for a certain expected life which means Tesla would have this obligation if something were to happen say a few years down the road. I figured 50-70% of value may be fair considering the material, truck roll/labor and anything else that it would have cost Tesla to go back to your pocket.

How many of you guys would pay for 50-70% off a PW if it carries the same warranty and support. Call it an Open-box table at your local Tesla store. lol

I had considered something like that, and if that was the only option they gave me as a resolution I probably would have gone for it. But it wouldn’t have been my first choice.

The big issue I see is the battery longevity. If the batteries in the refurbished unit were, say, 2 years old, then at the end of the 10 year warranty they would be 12 years old and the batteries in my other powerwalls would have been 10 years old. At that point that extra 2 years would probably be pretty significant.

 

[Vines]

Good job pushing politely for what you paid for.