Restrictions on Hong Kong Model S spec

[markwj]

Hello 1.64.41 Goodbye web browser.

 

[waidy]

I got this message too. If you have already installed it, would you look at the release note to see what else features/bug fixes are in this release? I may not want to install it if this is the only "feature", and wait for the next release before installing it Thank you thank you!!

 

[markwj]

I got this message too. If you have already installed it, would you look at the release note to see what else features/bug fixes are in this release?

I didn't think Tesla updated the release notes for 'point' releases. I can't see anything new in My Tesla.

 

[JohnxII]

I didn't install and called service center. The guy said apart from the browser issue, no other improvements. So I'd keep the current status for now.

 

[Vmax]

Be careful guys, in case you have a serious accident and the car is getting inspected, quite certain, the insurance will not pay a cent. Whenever they can they try to find a way not to pay.

 

[markwj]

Don't quote me (I'm not a lawyer), but the law says:

No person shall install or cause to be installed in or on a motor vehicle and no motor vehicle shall have installed therein or thereon a visual display unit other than a visual display unit that may be installed...

Sounds like Tesla is on the hook. However, I guess that refusing the update could also be 'cause to be installed'.

 

[waidy]

I just got around to write. It was suggested that my letter goes to the Information and Technology Legislative Council. In my letter, I also referenced markwj's comment. Please feel free to shot him an email to express your views, or pick any Legislative Council member as you feel appropriate.

Dear Hon Charles Mok, JP:

We recently acquired a Tesla Model S and learn that its telematics technology has been stripped due to the limitations specified in CAP 374A regulation 37.

I am a long time EV driver and have had 6 BEVs since 1999. The telematics functions in which CAP 374A reg 37 restricted would limit the growth in IT development in Hong Kong. In additions, as one of the many unhappy Model S owners commented "every taxi I have ever seen in HK has a phone mount that violates the above legislation. A smartphone in front of and within reach of the driver violates the law; and that there is no prosecutions for the violation."

I started using telematics system since the purchase of a Nissan LEAF in Feb, 2011. Since then, I purchased two Toyota Rav4-EVs, two Tesla Model Ss. I also test drove many BEVs such as the BMW i3, fiat 500E, Ford Focus EV, Honda Fit EV, Mercedes B-Class ED, Mitsubishi i-MiEV, etc. All of which I drove have telematics which allow broadcasting capability. It has helped me in many ways and have never come across any safety issue.

As ensuring safety on the road is important, not being able to execute/control the situation could make the situation worse. Perhaps allowing web browsing on a "permanently vehicle mounted display" and disallow the use of keypad/trackpad when the vehicle "is not in motion" would have better control. It is because the auto manufacturers have control over enabling/disabling the function when the vehicle is in motion. This way, prohibiting the mounting of telematics/cellular/transmitting devices within reach of driver seats could be easier to spot by prosecutors.

I am writing to request that CAP 374A regulation 37 be re-evaluated so to allow telematics advancement in the auto industry and that safety will still be kept in the top priority.

I can be reached either by email or cell: 5109 xxxx. I will be happy to drive to your office to do show and tell of the telematic system in the Model S.

Best Regards,

 

[Vmax]

@waidy: Your effort to write this letter is highly appreciated.

 

[Lerxt]

Thanks waidy and nicely written.

 

[markwj]

I think we might have a chance for a wider review of the transport legislation in HK. Recent years have shown how restrictive and short-sighted this is - perhaps government could be persuaded to be more pro-active. I suppose that the transport sub-committee would be the best to approach.

I am talking about things like requirements for child restraints, support for child-specific seats, alternatives to reflective mirrors, cellphone legislation, in car displays, etc. Not just EVs, and certainly not just Tesla. I don't think Charles is on that committee, but I'll check.

 

[Tony Lin]

HK transportation regulation is so outdated. If they remove rear camera is ridiculous since the car consider as a big sedan.
I would like to see Tesla works with Apple or thirdparty app with some type of air play, this might be a solution, but comes back to if the demand is there.

 

[waidy]

Mok's office replied my email. They are giving me "home work". I will have to do some research. If any one of you have "samples about similar law amendment", or "recommendation", or anything you want to say, please email to Michelle and Charles directly. Since I am not given a "reference number", perhaps anyone who wants to write to them should reference the subject line "Telematic Advancement in HK".

Thanks all for your supports.

From: Michelle Lam <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Telematic Advancement in HK
Date: September 11, 2014 at 12:52:48 AM PDT
To: [email protected]
Cc: Charles Mok Office <[email protected]>

Dear Waidy,

Thanks for your email. We have reviewed the relevant legislation and will follow-up the issue of restrictions on in-vehicle telematic systems during the coming LegCo year.

If you have any recommendation or examples about similar law amendment elsewhere, please share with us.
Best regards,

Michelle Lam
Research Officer
Office of the Hon Charles Mok, Legislative Councillor (IT)
Room 917, Legislative Council Complex, 1 Legislative Council Road, Central, Hong Kong
Tel: 3758 2616
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Waidy Lee <​​[email protected]>
Date: Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 10:16 AM
Subject: Telematic Advancement in HK
To: Charles Mok <[email protected]>


Dear Hon Charles Mok, JP:

We recently acquired a Tesla Model S and learn that its telematics technology has been stripped due to the limitations specified in CAP 374A regulation 37.

I am a long time EV driver and have had 6 BEVs since 1999 The telematics functions in which CAP 374A reg 37 restricted would limit the growth in IT development in Hong Kong. In additions, as one of the many unhappy Model S owners commented "every taxi I have ever seen in HK has a phone mount that violates the above legislation. A smartphone in front of and within reach of the driver violates the law; and that there is no prosecutions for the violation."

I started using telematics system since the purchase of a Nissan LEAF in Feb, 2011. Since then, I purchased two Toyota Rav4-EVs, two Tesla Model Ss. I also test drove many BEVs such as the BMW i3, fiat 500E, Ford Focus EV, Honda Fit EV, Mercedes B-Class ED, Mitsubishi i-MiEV, etc. All of which I drove have telematics which allow broadcasting capability. It has helped me in many ways and have never come across any safety issue.

As ensuring safety on the road is important, not being able to execute/control the situation could make the situation worse. Perhaps allowing web browsing on a "permanently vehicle mounted display" and disallow the use of keypad/trackpad when the vehicle "is not in motion" would have better control. It is because the auto manufacturers have control over enabling/disabling the function when the vehicle is in motion. This way, prohibiting the mounting of telematics/cellular/transmitting devices within reach of driver seats could be easier to spot by prosecutors.

I am writing to request that CAP 374A regulation 37 be re-evaluated so to allow telematics advancement in the auto industry and that safety will still be kept in the top priority.

I can be reached either by email or cell: 5109 XXXX. I will be happy to drive to your office to do show and tell of the telematic system in the Model S.

Best Regards,
Waidy Lee

 

[lx3h]

Mok's office replied my email. They are giving me "home work". I will have to do some research. If any one of you have "samples about similar law amendment", or "recommendation", or anything you want to say, please email to Michelle and Charles directly. Since I am not given a "reference number", perhaps anyone who wants to write to them should reference the subject line "Telematic Advancement in HK".

Thanks all for your supports.

Thank you Waidy, I guess we can all help a bit here and there.

 

[jkhfung]

Hello 1.64.41 Goodbye web browser.

View attachment 58556
View attachment 58555

Mark, did you have any issues accessing the car via your mobile app after your firmware upgrade? The service centre had upgraded my firmware and now I can't access it via my Android phone.

 

[markwj]

Mark, did you have any issues accessing the car via your mobile app after your firmware upgrade? The service centre had upgraded my firmware and now I can't access it via my Android phone.

Nope. No problems for me.

 

[jkhfung]

Nope. No problems for me.

Ok, after reinstalling the apps multiple times and I was finally able to get it working again. Service center mentioned another user was having problems as well but it was working again later in the evening. Still don't know if it is an android app issue given most iOS users didn't experience any remote access problems.

 

[waidy]

I had problem using the Tesla iPhone app yesterday as well, for both the Hong Kong Model S and US Model S. I am speculating the problem is at the server. I didn't do anything to the iPhone app and it's working fine now.

 

[waidy]

Below is an email I replied to the Hong Kong IT Legislative Council before I left Hong Kong. I encourage anyone to email Charles Mok <[email protected]> and Michelle Lam <[email protected]> requesting web browsing be permitted as an in-vehicle option.

Dear Charles and Michelle: First and foremost, thanks for your attention to this matter.

As the auto industry is moving toward M2M (machine to machine) for self driving and automation, IT remains a critical path for it to succeed. M2M deploys any wireless technologies ranging from Z-wave, ZigBee, Mods, Pulse, 802.11, etc. etc.

In California, live video is the only broadcasting means that is not allowed in the reach of driver. Tesla disabled youtube viewing on web browsing in their cars. I believe this is a federal law. Back seat passengers can watch cartoons (and whine "are we there yet") to their heart's contents at the backseats.

Please see V C Section 27602 Television
(amended 4 times already).

Some of the current "on vehicle IT" are Homelink, navigation, and web browsing; in which are not allowed in HK vehicles.

Homelink is under the jurisdiction of the FCC since that is simply 315MHz consumer band spectral allocation and usage. Anyone can build a transmitter if it’s following the modulation and power restrictions dictated by them. It is not bidirectional communication, just a remotely activated (radio) power switch. No biggie. Gee, those regulations must date back to the 1950’s! .. Homelink has been available for majority of of EVs (electric vehicles) and ICEs (Internal Combustion Engine) for decades. I do not see why Hong Kong dis-allows such technology in the vehicles.

As for Navigation, TomTom and other dash mounted consumer navigation units in which are banned in HK: GPS works world wide. I find that total bunk as forbidden to use inside the vehicle. That should be impetus to change that section of the law.

So the only thing would be web browsing. Many auto makers have started manufacturing automobiles with display in the reach from the driver seat. The most technological telematic display is in the Model S made by Tesla Motors which focus on technology extends from the creation of the car to the car itself. As for the Tesla Model S, it has a 17" screen. Using the Tesla screen is light-years ahead of the screen/button mix that is found in most "high-tech" cars. And since the screen is so big, the "keys on the keyboard" are also larger and more legible and easier to hit while driving. I will have to admit, despite knowing that our eyes belong on the road at all times and should not be typing at the in-car keyboard screens, we all at some point tap away at our cars' keyboard for web browsing. I would suggest Hong Kong would add a provision to allow use of in-vehicle web browsing while the vehicle is not in motion (this is something that the vehicle manufacturers can do). In another word, the keyboard in doing web browsing would be locked while the vehicle is in "drive"/"reverse" mode. [NOTE: This method provides a better control as compares to drivers using their cell phones to tap away their messages or doing web browsing].

Hong Kong is clearly in the early stages of the telematics policy debate. I hope you would find my request for reevaluation is valid and a good approach.

Best Regards,

 

[waidy]

Below is a response from Mok's office: [English version is here: http://www.info.gov.hk/gia/general/201410/22/P201410210794.htm]

Dear Waidy,

Thanks for your very detailed information. Charles has raised this issue in a LegCo written question to the government today:
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The government's response shows they have no intention to make changes at the moment.
​We will continue to convey your comments to seek re-evaluation​ from different channels. Thanks!

Best regards,
Michelle Lam
Research Officer
Office of the Hon Charles Mok, Legislative Councillor (IT)

 

[markwj]

Waidy,

Kind of expected, but thanks for trying. I suspect that government will keep using the safety angle to avoid addressing this.

The issue I see is that by explicitly listing what is allowed, they block innovation. Why is navigation safe, but a site to show nearby restaurants not? Why is other information being displayed not legal when the vehicle is parked and handbrake applied?

I've know Charles for many years now, and he is a good man. I will give it a try as well...