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RIP Panoramic Roof... :(

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Why do the price of a product and the desires of any given individual determine what a manufacturer should include in their product?

Because you'd like to think there are more resources to make a customers paying $100,00 for a car happy than the limited resources to make happy a customer paying $15,000 for a car.

All beings are equal and all beings deserve to be happy. Just that when you charge $100,000 for a car you should have the resources to offer a sunroof for customers who would like one.
 
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Why do the price of a product and the desires of any given individual determine what a manufacturer should include in their product?

I don't think he's saying it 'determines' what a manufacturer should include, but most customers who spend this kind of money tend to expect more customization as can be seen from other car models around this price range.

Like if you order a Panamera, you have 17 colors to choose from along with custom colors you can select by paying extra. In addition, there are 15 different wheels, 12 interior combinations, and a whole slew of different interior and exterior options you can add on.

There could be the argument that this just causes confusion to the customer on what to select. And maybe there are customers who rather select a few options and be done with it. But I know I would love to see this type of customization on the Tesla line up so you can truly customize the car from factory, the way you want it.
 
Why do the price of a product and the desires of any given individual determine what a manufacturer should include in their product?
I think you are confusing expectations with desire (I can see how the word "should" tripped you up). The price range of the product determines comparable products (similar product, same price range) and customer expectations on what should be available is often based on what those comparable products offer. So, if you buy a car for $100K, you expect similar options as you would get from other $100K cars.
 
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I think you are confusing expectations with desire

Why do the price of a product and the desires of any given individual determine what a manufacturer should include in their product?

So, if you buy a car for $100K, you expect similar options as you would get from other $100K cars.

Why do the price of a product and the expectations of any given individual determine what a manufacturer should include in their product?

So, if you buy a car for $100K, you desire similar options as you would get from other $100K cars.

Synonymous in context. Confusion is external.

Think about the options that would be expected/desired on a $100k car that has $90k of gold in the trunk.

Then think about how to build that car.
 
I definitely love the panoramic sunroof. It is not like convertible car but very close to it when you open it 100%.

For weird reason, when I have a headache, I always open it and has therapeutic effect on me. Works 80%+ of times. ;)
The “comfort” setting or whatever it is called is fine. But when you go all the way 100% open ... yeah ... it is awesome like a convertible. Even children think it is awesome.

I live in a place where it is snowing today. It snowed twice today, actually, and it’s terrible. Every day that it is above 62 and isn’t raining I have that sunroof open. It’s a blessing and I’m very sad it isn’t available for my next car
 
Synonymous in context. Confusion is external.

Think about the options that would be expected/desired on a $100k car that has $90k of gold in the trunk.

Then think about how to build that car.
I am not sure why that confuses you . There is a fairly clear distinction between an expectation and a desire. For example, I expect that at a sedan in a $100K range would have an option to get a pano/sunroof, but I do not desire a pano/sunroof (as evidenced by the fact that so far I bough three solid roof Model S and one with glass roof that doesn't open - solid roof was not available anymore). Maybe a simpler example would help, if someone was to shoot you in a leg, you would expect there to be pain, but most likely you don't desire that pain. Does that help you understand the difference?
 
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No leaks, no squeaks, and I love my Pano. So I called Tesla and the pano roof is available but off the menu.
Meaning, call in and they help you with the order.
So, everyone can be happy.

Will all those desires now convert to reality?
Will all those expectations move on to expect something else?
Will all those wouldas and shouldas now be satisfied?

Unlikely. :rolleyes:

Edit: just got a very detailed email follow up and here's his quote in writing:
"The sunroof is currently an “off-menu” item, we can certainly deliver you a new car with a sunroof!"
 
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No leaks, no squeaks, and I love my Pano. So I called Tesla and the pano roof is available but off the menu.
Meaning, call in and they help you with the order.
So, everyone can be happy.

Will all those desires now convert to reality?
Will all those expectations move on to expect something else?
Will all those wouldas and shouldas now be satisfied?

Unlikely. :rolleyes:

Edit: just got a very detailed email follow up and here's his quote in writing:
"The sunroof is currently an “off-menu” item, we can certainly deliver you a new car with a sunroof!"
Wait, I know, they'll make it a referral bonus! The referral code will unlock the ability to select pano in your configuration (similar to high power charger on the X when it first came out, hidden until you entered a secret code).
 
Perhaps they'll build all cars with pano roofs and there will be a $5K fee to unlock them except for random short "trial" periods?

Actually, aside from really liking the open air effect with the roof and all windows open, being able to hear the "spring peeper" frogs when driving is my main use case.
 
I can see where Tesla is coming from on dropping the Pano roof option... lots of future warranty repairs will be avoided. :cool:
Having owned a number of glass Targa roof Porsches over the years... you do not want to face a repair out of warranty. $$$

I had Mercedes with sunroofs that were 10-15 or more years old and worked fine, no leaks. So it is possible to build them correctly.
Sounds like Tesla is giving up rather than sharpening their design/manufacturing skills and solving the problems you describe.
Sad.
 
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Looks like it is back as an off-the-menu option (along with all the other options that they removed) .. meaning you have to order it from a Tesla salesperson instead of online.

https://electrek.co/2018/11/13/tesla-removed-options-off-the-menu-items/

Interesting, and annoying. I wish I had seen that before I finally made the decision to buy out the lease on my 2015 Model S. The lack of the sunroof option was one factor (of several) in my decision to buy my current car rather than to consider buying new. Secret options undermine sales, in my opinion.
My car has a sunroof (no longer available, sort of), gray leather (no longer available), coil springs (gone), Soon to be a collector's item!
 
I had Mercedes with sunroofs that were 10-15 or more years old and worked fine, no leaks. So it is possible to build them correctly. Sounds like Tesla is giving up rather than sharpening their design/manufacturing skills and solving the problems you describe.
Sad.
Mercedes and other auto manufacturers have had a lot of years to perfect their manufacturing. Tesla is like Hyundai in the 90's, learning things while trying to figure them out, wildly varying quality, lack of QA, etc. I remember when some people had Hyundai's with no problems whatsoever, while others had nothing but problems, similar to Tesla today. Volume manufacturing is a hard thing to do right, Elon's approach of "just push it out and see what breaks" doesn't help. Increasing volumes while still struggling will only leave them on the hook to fix all the problems, which is expensive, plus plug us service centers and turns off customers who have to wait a month each time to get an appointment, and then weeks or months to get replacement parts. I'm thinking no sunroof thing is an attempt to focus on a smaller number of configurations to get right - also less replacement parts to manage. If Tesla doesn't get it right soon, the other guys are going reduce Tesla back to low volume custom car manufacturer, once they get EV drivetrains in their cars and some charging networks.
 
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Mercedes and other auto manufacturers have had a lot of years to perfect their manufacturing. Tesla is like Hyundai in the 90's, learning things while trying to figure them out, wildly varying quality, lack of QA, etc. I remember when some people had Hyundai's with no problems whatsoever, while others had nothing but problems, similar to Tesla today. Volume manufacturing is a hard thing to do right, Elon's approach of "just push it out and see what breaks" doesn't help. Increasing volumes while still struggling will only leave them on the hook to fix all the problems, which is expensive, plus plug us service centers and turns off customers who have to wait a month each time to get an appointment, and then weeks or months to get replacement parts. I'm thinking no sunroof thing is an attempt to focus on a smaller number of configurations to get right - also less replacement parts to manage. If Tesla doesn't get it right soon, the other guys are going reduce Tesla back to low volume custom car manufacturer, once they get EV drivetrains in their cars and some charging networks.

Comparison to Hyundai is interesting. I do recall when they seemed like crap cars, and now it is a well-respected brand. I hope Tesla can successfully evolve into a full-fledged manufacturer, with sufficient service centers, supply chain for parts, ample delivery capability, and so on. Right now it seems like all they can do is to build cars, and if you are lucky, maybe service them. Delivery, used car sales support, parts, body shops -- not so much. I have not personally been burned by Tesla's limited resources, but the volume of horror stories here and in other forums is disturbing. Maybe the sunroof thing is indeed a small step towards limiting the demands on their resources. If so, I guess it is a good move, so long as it actually helps. Right now they seem to be mostly in chaos.
 
More information here... Tesla increases base price of Model S and Model X, makes several option changes to ‘simplify offering’
  • Rear-facing Child seats are gone: Tesla will instead recommend buyers with large families to get a Model X
  • 21″ Black Arachnid Wheels are not in the config anymore. They will be an aftermarket product only.
  • Panoramic Sunroof is gone. Like Model 3, only the glass roof is now available.
  • 72 amp onboard charger: now only available in single phase markets. Other markets will only have the 48 amp charger.
  • Carbon fiber spoiler has been made standard on all the Model S P100D


According to that article:

Electrek’s Take
The Panoramic Sunroof was probably the most controversial option removed by Tesla since it was the only roof option that enabled the installation of a roof rack.

Now the good news is that it sounds like it’s still a possibility, but it needs to be ordered directly with a Tesla salesperson instead of configured online.

I am not sure how this “simplify the product offerings and provide the best experience for customers.”