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Roadster 1.5 prices if there is no 3.0 upgrade

Discussion in 'Roadster' started by bart513, Sep 8, 2015.

  1. bart513

    bart513 Member

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    Is there a market for 1.5 Roadsters with low CAC who need a better battery but can't get the 3.0 upgrade? Hopefully that will change.
     
  2. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    Can a 1.5 Roadster use a battery from a 2.0 Roadster?
     
  3. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Not without modifications. There's a tap from the 1.5 battery for the 12V system. The 2.0/2.5 Roadsters use a separate 12V battery and charger. Also I expect there will be differences in the cables (different PEM, different cable lengths and connectors). There inevitably will also be firmware differences.
     
  4. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    There is always a "market" (i.e. "potential buyers") for almost anything at the right price.
    Beyond that observation, I'm not sure I understand your question.
     
  5. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    #5 dhrivnak, Sep 8, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
    Yes. But unless there is a plan B, I am afraid 1.5 Roadster prices will tank. Most of our batteries are down 15% and dropping. But I remain hopeful they are able to develop something.
     
  6. bart513

    bart513 Member

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    I can't imagine that Tesla won't do something for the 1.5 Roadsters.
     
  7. BartJ

    BartJ Member

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    #7 BartJ, Sep 12, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
    Why don't all 1.5 owners in the west-coast region gather one day at the Freemont Tesla factory and get some media attention on the fact that Tesla will not make new batteries anymore for them.... Some media pressure can do miracles....
     
  8. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    How did this go from 'battery upgrade not offered for 1.5s' to 'Tesla will not make new batteries anymore'?
     
  9. Chickenlittle

    Chickenlittle Active Member

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    I am misunderstanding something here. I do understand disappointment from those with 1.5 models HOWEVER they were all purchased with the original battery range. I believe they can get replacement for those batteries when needed. Who bought a 1.5 more than a year ago with expectation that there would be new battery? Was there a contract from tesla selling the roadster with a promise of higher range battery to come? Tesla is not under ANY reasonable expectation to supply longer range batteries. They need to support the cars sold and they are with batteries that can restore cars to original range when the car was new. Anybody planning to purchase a roadster now with the idea that tesla will provide a 4.0 battery? Let's be reasonable.
     
  10. BartJ

    BartJ Member

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    as of today they don't make new batteries anymore for the 1.5.....or I am wrong ?
     
  11. wiztecy

    wiztecy Active Member

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    #11 wiztecy, Sep 12, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
    Great. Then show me where to purchase *new* not used / refurbished cells / bricks / sheets / packs for the 1.5 then.

    I'm now on the fence to pick up a used legacy Nissan Leaf, recycle the old battery and purchase a new one with the added range and heat climate support. And also to thank Nissan for supporting their legacy fleet of EVs and offering an battery pack at a very reasonable price for the consumer and EV enthusiast. I never would think Nissan would out-do Tesla on support, but they did.

    I don't need a quick car/EV. I want one that's reliable, can evolve with time and technology, and gets me to work & back.

    Yes, I agree we need to re-direct the 1.5 thread to a new location.
     
  12. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    No, you're not wrong. I should have said 'replacement batteries'. This just isn't new information. They haven't made new batteries, to the best of my knowledge, for a very long time. The fact that the upgrade excluded 1.5s is more than annoying, but somehow that conversation morphed into proclaiming that 1.5s were stranded. And I'm curious as to how we arrived at that conclusion.
     
  13. spiderguy

    spiderguy Member

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    I know nothing about the technology, but I find it hard to believe that Tesla intentionally omitted the 1.5 from the upgrade. My theory is that they were rushed to make the announcement by 9/1 and had to pass on the adjustment for the 1.5, due to timing issues. If so, I just hope that they continue on the path to make the proper adjustments needed to allow the 1.5 the same benefits as later models. If that doesn't happen, it will disproportionately impact the values between the 1.5s vs the 2.0 & 2.5s. That would be a quite an unkind gesture to the early adopters!
     
  14. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    #14 ecarfan, Sep 12, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2015
    As a 1.5 owner who bought his Roadster almost a year ago, here is my concern:
    By failing to include the 1.5 model in the 3.0 battery upgrade offer, Tesla appears to be saying -- this is my interpretation -- that there are no currently available higher capacity cells that can be installed in the 1.5 battery enclosure. If there were it seems that Tesla would have used them so they could offer the 3.0 battery upgrade to all Roadsters. But they did not (and that was not known until after Tesla announced the 3.0 battery was for sale).
    So that means that, for now, if a 1.5 battery fails and needs replacement cells, Tesla will continue to use the original cell type to repair it. As far as I am aware, that cell type is no longer in production. So Tesla won't be using new cells to repair a failed 1.5 battery, they will be using old stock.
    Cells degrade over time, even when not used. And the supply of the originally 1.5 battery cell type is surely limited. How much do they degrade and how many are left? We don't know. (Please correct anything I say here if you have evidence to the contrary!)
    All of this does not give me confidence that the 1.5 battery will be repairable years from now.
    I do not feel that Tesla owes 1.5 owners a significantly higher capacity replacement battery, now or ever. I do feel that Tesla should be able to repair failed 1.5 batteries and bring them back to their original CAC and range for years to come. (How many years? Reasonable people can differ, but at least "several") The first Roadsters were built just 7 years ago. They are not yet "old" cars, at least not to me. But then until recent I owned a 1959 Porsche, which by the way was still repairable and not particularly difficult to maintain and keep in running condition.
    So if Tesla would just issue a statement addressing the 1.5 battery issues I raise above, that would be very helpful.
     
  15. Andrew Wolfe

    Andrew Wolfe Roadster 472 - S 440

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    Can you charge at work? I had a Leaf before my Tesla. If you are still making the same commute as the last time I spoke to you, it is too far to go both ways reliably.

    The original point is an important one though. Lithium-Ion batteries age. We can't be replacing packs with 10-year old cells. Whether or not there is an upgrade - there needs to be support for replacement battery backs that are made with new parts or the cars start to become disposable. That would be a real shame.

    Is there some barrier to third parties rebuilding bricks with new cells? Will only one particular 18650 cell work without firmware tweaks?
     
  16. smac

    smac Active Member

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    dpeillow and I were half discussing this on SpeakEV, and bar fake cells that claim 10x more power than they have, the cells are still expensive for premium brand (i.e. Panasonics).

    The lowest price from a quick google for Panasonic cells (wholesale) was $4.34 ea. for 2900mAh (NCR18650PF) so $30k for a full set. That's before you get some one to install them, which is going to be a huge cost. Even then you have the firmware issues (and I'm not even sure these would work then)


    In short the only realistic way is to go back to Tesla.
     
  17. wiztecy

    wiztecy Active Member

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    I'm now working in downtown San Jose, there's 5 ChargePoint chargers in the garage I park in but some of the plug in hybrids squat at the charger all day without moving. The City of San Jose does not do any enforcement on this which sucks. Nice notes don't do a thing for people of that mentality. And there are some pure EVs that squat too, but most are the hybrids. I don't need them for the Roadster of course but I utilize them in order to do a cool-down of the battery pack when I arrive at work and seeing very promising results.

    Yes, I remember when you had your Leaf and sold it too :) And I do understand how painful and stressful the limited range of those things are. But Nissan introduced a 30KW pack up from the 24KW and the range has increased they say from 84 miles to 107. I also heard that these new packs are backwards compatible with all previous Leafs made.

    I enjoy supporting new types of technology, but in the end it comes down to Customer Support and Customer Service for me. So now that there's more EVs on the market I'll move to a company who'll support their cars the best over time.
     
  18. wiztecy

    wiztecy Active Member

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  19. asgard

    asgard Member

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    I had been anticipating the battery upgrade for my 1.5. Now that Tesla has all but closed the doors on the 1.5 Roadster it is time to reconsider.
    I love my Roadster and want to keep it but it is getting a lot harder.
     

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