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Roadster Extended Warranty
- Thread starter jordanthompson
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- Roadster
It's going to happen sooner or later because Panasonic discontinues the lowest mah cells every now and then.
That would be sweet indeed! I hope you guys are right. OTOH, I have a lot of confidence in these battery packs, so "when a lot of the cars start needing new batteries" might be well in the future. I honestly don't expect to need a new pack before I'm too old to drive. For me, a couple of hours is a LOOOONG time to sit in a car. 350 miles would get me to Seattle. But would I want to drive that far? Maybe not.
I hope you are lucky.... the reality is though that Roadster batteries are needing work before they reach the end of their warranty. How many Roadster's this is impacting I have no idea.
My gut impression is that very few Roadsters are needing battery work. But I have no data. I'd like real numbers. On-line forums are misleading because everyone with a problem posts about it, while hardly anybody without problems posts.
But I'll consider the extended warranty when and if they offer it. There are posters here who have earned my respect by the thoughtful, reasonable, and knowledgeable posts they consistently make, and if and when Tesla offers the warranty, I'll look carefully at what they decide, and their reasons, as I make my own decision. Until then, there's no point in obsessing over the chances of battery issues.
Agreed, we need real numbers... of the 5 or 6 owners that I've asked, 3 have had some battery work... completely unscientific I know...
Would hope that with a warranty program offer that Tesla would give full disclosure.
Insurance companies have legions of actuarials to mitigate their risk (and rooms of insurance deniers) but the Battery. and PEM vacuum is much larger than what we as consumers know about the general risk of fire, flood, earthquake, etc.
With new Model S warranties at 8 years and unlimited, an inexpensive extension to the Roadster shows the electric deniers that battery longevity is not a problem and Tesla proves it by backing the first generation of adopters.
- Battery replacement cost.
- Sheet replacement cost.
- PEM replacement cost
- Motor replacement cost
- Whether the cells would be the 3.1 Model S type or the same 2.1's it has now.
- How many sheet replacements there have been.
- How many full battery replacements there have been.
- How many motors
- How many PEMs
Insurance companies have legions of actuarials to mitigate their risk (and rooms of insurance deniers) but the Battery. and PEM vacuum is much larger than what we as consumers know about the general risk of fire, flood, earthquake, etc.
With new Model S warranties at 8 years and unlimited, an inexpensive extension to the Roadster shows the electric deniers that battery longevity is not a problem and Tesla proves it by backing the first generation of adopters.
So how would a new extended warranty work for those who already have the $12K battery replacement agreement?
http://webarchive.teslamotors.com/display_data.php?data_name=Battery_Replacement
http://webarchive.teslamotors.com/display_data.php?data_name=Battery_Replacement
The Battery Replacement is different in that you can choose when you want to do a 1 time replacement of the battery (i.e does not have to be a warranted issue, range diminishing etc). You would then get a full battery warranty for 3 years or 36k miles. I do not think anyone would get this warranty that already has the replacement.
The new battery warranty will just protect against defects.
Why not? There's not much overlap. The extended warranty covers your battery from end of year 3 to the end of yr 6. Whether anything goes wrong with it or not you still have to replace it shortly after that. That's where the replacement program would help. Suppose you don't buy the warranty and your battery dies in year 4. Now you're hosed because the replacement option can't be exercised until yr 5, and if you opt to replace it that early you pay a $2,000 extra fee. So the battery extended warranty provides coverage until the preferred replacement period begins.
The way I see it you are already 12k in on the battery (replacement), add another 7500 on top of that and you are now $19500 in, on one component of the vehicle. It is a risk that the battery may go bad, but is that risk worth 7500? I think taking the risk on the battery and paying the additional 2k may be more prudent than paying 7500k for a component that will get replaced anyway in a few years.
It is interesting they used the word "battery" so I would assume the PEM would fall under the normal warranty?
Ok I just read the warranty terms and conditions in the PDF it seems you have to pay 2k for every year prior to the 7th year if you redeem early:
Redemption Period. You (or a transferee of the vehicle)
may only request a replacement battery at any time after the
expiration of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty for your
Roadster, but no later than 10 years from the date of original
sale of the vehicle. If a replacement battery is requested after
the seventh anniversary of the original date of vehicle sale by
Tesla, there will be no additional charge for the service.
However, Tesla will issue to the then-current owner a refund of
$1,000 for every year beyond the eighth anniversary of the
original vehicle sale date, and will be paid at the time of battery
replacement. If a battery replacement is requested prior to the
seventh anniversary of the original vehicle sale date then a
$2,000 additional charge for every year prior to the seventh
anniversary of the original vehicle sale date will be imposed.
So if the battery does fail by year 4 or 5 you could be paying a pretty hefty penalty. I doubt Tesla will charge 40k to replace the battery if a sheet fails etc. It really depends on what Tesla will charge to replace sheets another wildcard is if Tesla comes out with a higher capacity battery. I would much rather take the replacement hit and be able to get a hypothetical 79kw battery rather than have an additional $7500 in a 5 year old 60k mile battery.
If the PEM were to only be included in the Battery warranty then maybe (in my experience the most likely expensive part to fail on the roadster)..
Redemption Period. You (or a transferee of the vehicle)
may only request a replacement battery at any time after the
expiration of the New Vehicle Limited Warranty for your
Roadster, but no later than 10 years from the date of original
sale of the vehicle. If a replacement battery is requested after
the seventh anniversary of the original date of vehicle sale by
Tesla, there will be no additional charge for the service.
However, Tesla will issue to the then-current owner a refund of
$1,000 for every year beyond the eighth anniversary of the
original vehicle sale date, and will be paid at the time of battery
replacement. If a battery replacement is requested prior to the
seventh anniversary of the original vehicle sale date then a
$2,000 additional charge for every year prior to the seventh
anniversary of the original vehicle sale date will be imposed.
So if the battery does fail by year 4 or 5 you could be paying a pretty hefty penalty. I doubt Tesla will charge 40k to replace the battery if a sheet fails etc. It really depends on what Tesla will charge to replace sheets another wildcard is if Tesla comes out with a higher capacity battery. I would much rather take the replacement hit and be able to get a hypothetical 79kw battery rather than have an additional $7500 in a 5 year old 60k mile battery.
If the PEM were to only be included in the Battery warranty then maybe (in my experience the most likely expensive part to fail on the roadster)..
For what its worth, I made a spreadsheet here to try to quantify (in one place) the problems people have been having with their Roadster to help try to determine whether or not to get the extended warranty when(ever) it is offered.
I thought that each person could best quantify the problems themselves (on a scale of 0 - 10)
Feel free to add columns as you see fit (I think everyone knows how to manipulate an excel spreadsheet - this one is not much different.)
The fine print:
* This spreadsheet can be seen and edited by anyone with the link.
* Please don't put anything into the spreadsheet you don't feel comfortable sharing.
I thought that each person could best quantify the problems themselves (on a scale of 0 - 10)
Feel free to add columns as you see fit (I think everyone knows how to manipulate an excel spreadsheet - this one is not much different.)
The fine print:
* This spreadsheet can be seen and edited by anyone with the link.
* Please don't put anything into the spreadsheet you don't feel comfortable sharing.
ChadS
Last tank of gas: March 2009
I visited my local service department yesterday, and they gave me some info on the new Roadster extended service agreements (ESA). This is the official version, with places to sign, initial, and all the little disclaimers. (It has a list of states at the top, so it might be different in other states. The states on my doc are: Alabama, California, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, Missouri, New Mexico, New York, Nevada, South Carolina, Texas, Vermont, Washington and Wyoming).
First off, there are two separate agreements. One is for the battery, one is for everything else (the "vehicle"). You can go with either, neither, or both. You can transfer the agreement to a new owner if you tell Tesla and pay a $100 fee.
Battery: 1 year/12k miles for $3k, 2/24k for $5,500, or 3/36 for $7,500.
Vehicle: 1 year for $3k, 2 for $4k, or 3 for $5k.
Interesting that they are the same price for 1 year, but the battery is 50% more for 3 years.
Both have a $200 deductible (waived if you already paid a deductible for the same part). Both have all the standard disclaimers about not covering things that are not their fault, like vandalism, lack of service (in fact it is stronger than the typical "damage caused by lack of service" and says that they won't start ESA repairs unless they have proof of service), damage from 3rd party accessories, accidents, business use, racing etc. Nor do they cover reduction in performance due to wear and tear.
The Vehicle ESA does not cover squeaks, rattles, leaks or wind noise. Nor any regular wear parts. Nor wheels and tires. Nor suspension alignment, wheel balancing, brake rotor, hoses, A/C lines or shocks. Nor sheet metal, bumpers, moldings, carpet, upholstery, paint, battery, lenses, light bulbs, glass, trim, seals, tops, cables, etc.
Neither ESA includes Ranger travel, or Roadside assistance - so you either take the car in for service, pay the Ranger to visit you, or pay to use their Roadside Assistance.
I guess I'm basically looking at the Vehicle ESA as coverage if my PEM goes bad (I assume it would cover motor and gear box as well, but I'm not worried about those). It's about $9,425 to have a new PEM installed, so this will more than pay off if that happens, and it does happen a lot. But if that doesn't happen (and I just got a new PEM a year ago), I'm having a hard time seeing when I would ever use it. I would be interested in others' thoughts on this. Am I missing major things that it does cover? VDS, I guess.
As for the battery ESA, a new sheet is $3k plus installation. I figure if I replace two sheets on my own, I'm still ahead. Replacing 3 or more sheets seems unlikely, unless I need a whole battery. Then this is indeed worthwhile...unless I might want to just take that opportunity to upgrade to a new battery? But of course I don't know when that will be available, or what it will cost.
First off, there are two separate agreements. One is for the battery, one is for everything else (the "vehicle"). You can go with either, neither, or both. You can transfer the agreement to a new owner if you tell Tesla and pay a $100 fee.
Battery: 1 year/12k miles for $3k, 2/24k for $5,500, or 3/36 for $7,500.
Vehicle: 1 year for $3k, 2 for $4k, or 3 for $5k.
Interesting that they are the same price for 1 year, but the battery is 50% more for 3 years.
Both have a $200 deductible (waived if you already paid a deductible for the same part). Both have all the standard disclaimers about not covering things that are not their fault, like vandalism, lack of service (in fact it is stronger than the typical "damage caused by lack of service" and says that they won't start ESA repairs unless they have proof of service), damage from 3rd party accessories, accidents, business use, racing etc. Nor do they cover reduction in performance due to wear and tear.
The Vehicle ESA does not cover squeaks, rattles, leaks or wind noise. Nor any regular wear parts. Nor wheels and tires. Nor suspension alignment, wheel balancing, brake rotor, hoses, A/C lines or shocks. Nor sheet metal, bumpers, moldings, carpet, upholstery, paint, battery, lenses, light bulbs, glass, trim, seals, tops, cables, etc.
Neither ESA includes Ranger travel, or Roadside assistance - so you either take the car in for service, pay the Ranger to visit you, or pay to use their Roadside Assistance.
I guess I'm basically looking at the Vehicle ESA as coverage if my PEM goes bad (I assume it would cover motor and gear box as well, but I'm not worried about those). It's about $9,425 to have a new PEM installed, so this will more than pay off if that happens, and it does happen a lot. But if that doesn't happen (and I just got a new PEM a year ago), I'm having a hard time seeing when I would ever use it. I would be interested in others' thoughts on this. Am I missing major things that it does cover? VDS, I guess.
As for the battery ESA, a new sheet is $3k plus installation. I figure if I replace two sheets on my own, I'm still ahead. Replacing 3 or more sheets seems unlikely, unless I need a whole battery. Then this is indeed worthwhile...unless I might want to just take that opportunity to upgrade to a new battery? But of course I don't know when that will be available, or what it will cost.
Tesla 940
Member
My first, knee jerk reaction, is to "Pass" and self insure. While the PEM would hurt I haven't read that all that many people have had that problem (yet). Paying $5k to cover against a potential $10k hit for 3 years doesn't sound like a wise choice. Same thought process with the battery - $7,500 to cover 3 years of loss exposure.
I'll have to think about it.
All that said - if I had known what a full battery replacement costs I probably would have paid the $12k up-front for a replacement when I purchased the car. Of course, it is likely that a replacement battery 7+ years later would have upgrade cells and Tesla probably would want to charge a upgrade fee.
I'll have to think about it.
All that said - if I had known what a full battery replacement costs I probably would have paid the $12k up-front for a replacement when I purchased the car. Of course, it is likely that a replacement battery 7+ years later would have upgrade cells and Tesla probably would want to charge a upgrade fee.
strider
Active Member
Do we even know what a full battery replacement costs? We know a "bricked" battery costs $40k per the whole bricking hoopla but I'm not aware of anyone replacing a functioning yet worn battery.
wiztecy
Active Member
>Right. If you have two good sheets in a "dead" battery, do you get a credit for those?
I highly doubt it, it would only be good or useful in a used market with someone who would want those sheets in a battery pack utilizing the same battery technology. And also the voltages would have to match, meaning if you're putting in two random sheets that have lower voltages than the average of the pack, it'll pull and degrade the rest of the pack to the lower / weakest sheet.
I highly doubt it, it would only be good or useful in a used market with someone who would want those sheets in a battery pack utilizing the same battery technology. And also the voltages would have to match, meaning if you're putting in two random sheets that have lower voltages than the average of the pack, it'll pull and degrade the rest of the pack to the lower / weakest sheet.
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