Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Run-away I-PACE, really?

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
No, it’s an existing law for the offence of using a phone, satnav or other device while in charge of a vehicle.
However, there are exemptions for calling emergency services thankfully.
Wasting emergency services’ time is also another offence.
Plus rule 149 of Highway Code: You MUST exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times.
 
Last edited:
The following is from 2021

Brake sensor failure normally means no _brake assist_. It just feels like no brakes when you're used to it.

My wife has twice had sensor panics in our Volt where the car slipped on light snow and then all brake assist was lost, and it took a lot of force to stop, so felt like no brakes. (2nd time she knew what to do, and how to get it to reset.)
 
Brakes will always overcome the powertrain in any car and enough redundancy is built in that this just won't happen, unless something very obvious physically intervenes i.e. a brick on the accelerator pedal and a brick under the brake pedal.
Tell that to Toyota, and the ~37 people killed.


In case of failure, Try the handbrake, change gear, open the doors, anything which might trip a failsafe...
 
well...
I know a guy (50+ yo) who all of his life was driving manual gear boxes. During one of his trip, there was catastrophic failure po power generator - ICE car was driving on battery + engine (alternator - dead)

Once battery was completely depleted, car stopped. on M42... he rolled to the hard shoulder.

The emergency/parking brake, obviously electronic. but due to the fact that all electrics were completely dead, he could not engage it. So poor guy was sitting in the car, pressing brake for like 15 minutes, because he could not leave the car... Poor sod could not think and put it into 1st gear...

and me, coming from the place where you have a lot of temp fluctuations during the winter, you learn (sometimes - hard way) to never ever use a handbrake and always put car in P or 1st gear before leaving your car...

it hurts my head (and eyes) seeing that all cars in UK ar left in Neutral + hand brake.. so people cannot think when the hand brake does not work...
 
Tell that to Toyota, and the ~37 people killed.


In case of failure, Try the handbrake, change gear, open the doors, anything which might trip a failsafe...
Brakes will always overcome powertrain if pressed hard enough, even in the Toyota example. In the same way when power steering or brake boost is lost on a Tesla some won't be able to steer or brake because they don't have the strength. Doesn't mean the steering or brakes have completely failed as a lot of Tesla owners make out.
Whatever the cause of an unexpected acceleration or lack of braking, most drivers will just panic and not work their way through a checklist like an airline pilot would. But trying to make out there is no other way to avoid a catastrophe isn't accurate.
 
Interestingly that article mentions a US recall for an issue with the braking system:

Jaguar Land Rover North America, LLC (Jaguar) is recalling certain 2019-2020 I-PACE vehicles. If the electrical regenerative brake system fails, there will be an increased delay between when the driver brakes and when the vehicle decelerates. As such, these vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) number 135, "Light Vehicle Brake Systems."
Recall consequence
A delay in deceleration, increases the distance needed to stop and the risk of a crash.
Recall action
Jaguar will notify owners, and dealers will update the software to reduce the delay, free of charge. The recall began June 12, 2019. Owners may contact Jaguar customer service at 1-800-637-6837. Jaguar's number for this recall is H213.

Looks like they were also recalled in the UK for the same thing:

Reason for recall​

Vehicles may not comply with EU 13H braking regulations.

How to check if the vehicle is recalled​

Contact the local JAGUAR dealership or manufacturer. You will not need to pay for anything involving the recall.

How the manufacturer will repair​

Install software upgrade.

Number of affected vehicles​

3099

I appreciate that the two incidents in this thread seem a bit more drastic, but it does show that software can impact the braking system. And we all know how good software is :)
 
Brake sensor failure normally means no _brake assist_. It just feels like no brakes when you're used to it.
It also potentially means that using the brake pedal won't automatically disengage adaptive cruise control. Make sure you know how to disengage it manually.

On an M3 with stalks, you push the stalk up to disengage autopilot. Be aware, though, that if autopilot is _not_ already engaged, pushing the stalk up places you in reverse (!) although, of course, the car won't let you do the latter if you are travelling at speed. I presume there must be some other way to do it on Highland?

EDIT: Although the suggestion above re holding the park button on the end of the stalk to perform emergency braking with the parking brake would _hopefully_ disengage TACC anyway. Although in this scenario my first instinct would be to disable TACC with the stalk and slow down using regen. Applying the parking brake at speed is very much a last resort, I would think.

I presume Highland must have some other way to perform emergency braking with the parking brake, though?
 
Last edited:
Brakes will always overcome powertrain if pressed hard enough, even in the Toyota example. In the same way when power steering or brake boost is lost on a Tesla some won't be able to steer or brake because they don't have the strength. Doesn't mean the steering or brakes have completely failed as a lot of Tesla owners make out.
Whatever the cause of an unexpected acceleration or lack of braking, most drivers will just panic and not work their way through a checklist like an airline pilot would. But trying to make out there is no other way to avoid a catastrophe isn't accurate.
The example quoted needing as much as 175lbs pressure on the brake on the Toyota. We don't know whether the Ipace would need more or less than that but it's substantial especially if needed for some time to bring the car to a halt plus likely an EV will have a more powerful motor. Many people won't be able to generate that power. Even an airline pilot needs time to work through a checklist, make the right responses and would fail when battling software misdirects or misinformation.
Air France Flight 447 - Wikipedia
Armchair critics have a right to be dubious but dismissing this out of hand isn't right.
I've been in two old bangers with brake failure. Fortunately not with throttle wide open as well but stopping a Bently with failed servo from 100 mph on it;s back-up cables was hard work even though I was seriously fit in those days. The second time was a failed master cylinder in a rover SD1 - not brakes at all and going downhill - yes you can get it to stop but not quickly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: exlatccatsa
The example quoted needing as much as 175lbs pressure on the brake on the Toyota. We don't know whether the Ipace would need more or less than that but it's substantial especially if needed for some time to bring the car to a halt plus likely an EV will have a more powerful motor. Many people won't be able to generate that power. Even an airline pilot needs time to work through a checklist, make the right responses and would fail when battling software misdirects or misinformation.
Air France Flight 447 - Wikipedia
Armchair critics have a right to be dubious but dismissing this out of hand isn't right.
I've been in two old bangers with brake failure. Fortunately not with throttle wide open as well but stopping a Bently with failed servo from 100 mph on it;s back-up cables was hard work even though I was seriously fit in those days. The second time was a failed master cylinder in a rover SD1 - not brakes at all and going downhill - yes you can get it to stop but not quickly.
I'm agreeing with you even if it didn't come across like that. My main point is that we often read about cases where something has gone wrong with the car and it leads to something unexpected happening which the driver, for whatever reason, can't cope with and then calls the car "undriveable" when in fact it's not as long as you have the ability to deal with the situation.
Those sorts of comments then make other owners fearful that that the same thing will happen to them and they won't be able to cope, when in fact a lot of them will be able to if they understood the situation and were presented with the facts ahead of it happening.

A good example is a wheel speed sensor failure on a Tesla. That throws up a load of errors, reduces power steering and disables ABS and TC. To some drivers, that renders the car completely undriveable and they'd abandon it in the street. To others, they'll just drive it to the service centre to get it fixed (or in my case, fix it myself because I can't be bothered to sit for 4 hours in a SC for a 10 minute job and a £25 part).

Another one is the often quoted unintended acceleration in a Tesla, which has never been proven to have happened. Ever. One reason it won't happen is that there is a safeguard built in which reduces power and warns you if you press both pedals at the same time. So you will always be able to brake the car to a halt if you press the brake pedal, even if something is pressing on the accelerator pedal and you're not very strong. The other reason it's always implausible is because there are two opposing potentiometers (sensors) on the accelerator pedal itself so if one were to fail or go short circuit, the other would be the failsafe. If any of the signals controllong the car's power delivery were faulty, it's going to error out and reduce or cut power anyway.

Yes, there will be circumstances particularly in older cars where something fails and you have no brakes or can't stop the car, but that's not what this thread is about. This is about a modern EV with lots of redundancy and failsafes. If JLR come up with an explanation which proves there is a failure mode where an iPace cannot be stopped I'll hold my hands up as being wrong, but a report on the BBC and a comment from Z-list ex-Big Brother celeb. doesn't make it a fact.
 
Every single case of this that has ever been properly investigated over the last 20 years has come to the same conclusion: driver panicked and was accidentally holding down the gas not the brake. It's such a sensational story, it makes the news every time, but there is just no way it could happen with modern brakes and modern throttles. Throttle by wire typically uses two sensors, producing two distinct voltages in opposition, running on two separate circuits, with a failsafe mode of 'off'. Not to mention all brake systems are designed to overpower the maximum power capabilities of the drivetrain. If you really had your foot on the brake, the car would stop.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tony Hoyle