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Russia/Ukraine conflict

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At what point do the troops decide they stand a better chance of surviving an attack on Putin then idiotic assaults to gain a few meters of a country that’s not theirs?
There are countless examples throughout time where the numbers of oppressed waiting to die have been more than sufficient to overpower the oppressors and yet nothing is done. There are ways to manage people, even to their death, while controlling resistance. Anyone here understand the human mind enough to comment on how this happens?
 
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There are countless examples throughout time where the numbers of oppressed waiting to die have been more than sufficient to overpower the oppressors and yet nothing is done. There are ways to manage people, even to their death, while controlling resistance. Anyone here understand the human mind enough to comment on how this happens?
Believe me I understand that, but like in 1917, these guys know they are being thrown into a meat grinder and have no hope and they have weapons.
 
Believe me I understand that, but like in 1917, these guys know they are being thrown into a meat grinder and have no hope and they have weapons.

The big triggers for Russians to rebel is losses. They have absorbed the losses at Kyiv, Kharkhiv, and Kherson so far *the Ukrainians are running out of oblasts starting with a K to take back), but Russians still look at the map and the Russian army still controls more of Ukraine than it did on Feb 23. I think a collapse back to the Feb 23 line would be a major psychological blow to Russia and might be a tipping point.

There has also been a narrative that the only reason Russia hasn't won is because they haven't fully mobilized. Mobilization is risky politically. The babushkas like the idea. They have been behind the war since the start. The younger generation who have to fight the war are less enthusiastic about it. Russian media has been priming the Russian people for more mobilization with complete fantasies about Russia being able to conquer not just Ukraine but all of Europe in 2023.

According to the FSB agent who defected to Europe last week, apparently there are people in the Kremlin who seem to believe their own propaganda. Russia will somehow become the juggernaut of 1945 and roll all the way to Lisbon if they fully mobilize. They seem to be unaware of the fact they have few experienced people left to train new recruits and they don't have the supplies to give these new recruits even the most basic weapons.

I just watched the most recent Perun video where he talked about ammunition supplies. The basic problem for Ukraine getting the supplies it needs is political. There is plenty of ammunition in stockpiles around the world and plenty of ammunition production capacity if all of the US Allies are taken into account.

Russia on the other hand is facing real shortfalls. It can produce a lot of ammunition, but it's only about 1/10 the consumption they need to get anywhere. The only times they have had any success in this war after the initial phase is when they could fire overwhelming firepower raining down on the Ukrainians in a short period. They simply don't have the ammunition supplies to do that anymore. Production is enough they aren't going to run out, but they don't have enough to fire 60.000 rounds a day either.

Russia also is wearing out their guns at a fantastic rate and they are not replacing the barrels. I've read that the Russians had thousands of guns in storage left over from the Chechen war with worn out barrels. They never bothered to repair them, they just drew more guns out of storage. Some true antique guns have been seen in Russian use. That is an indication they are running out of serviceable artillery. They may run out of guns in the next year.

There probably is a tipping point where Russian troops rebel or the Russian people rebel en masse. But where exactly the point is is a matter of speculation. For many armies the tipping point would have been hit a long time ago. Russians can take significantly more abuse than many armies and keep going. But historically the Russian people are not tolerant of losses.

The US has mostly forgotten the mess that was the pullout from Afghanistan. It happened, we're done, move on. The US has more tolerance for failure in that regard. It does affect individual lives quite dramatically, but overall, the country tolerates it.

Russia is different. People there will put up with a lot of personal loss if it looks like they might win. But when the country ultimately looses, things get ugly.

Russia is losing. Between the high daily losses of troops and the growing shell hunger with their artillery, it's likely the Ukrainians are going to have another break through eventually. Their allies are sending a lot of supplies and they are stockpiling for another offensive soon. Will that be the tipping point? Maybe?
 
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In the modern world invading your neighbors and trying to erase them from the map is a bright line in the sand that very few countries in the world and very few people (percentage of the total) tolerate. The world lined up against Iraq in 1991 when they tried a war of conquest on Kuwait.

Russia has gotten away with some land grabs in Georgia and Ukraine because the countries were not able to fight back and the rest of the world wasn't prepared for a full on war with Russia over portions of those countries.

Then Russia tried to erase Ukraine as a country and Ukraine was strong enough to resist, so the world has poured its resources into supporting Ukraine.

Ukraine has been making reforms to its military and government over the last 8 years. It has moved from a corrupt pseudo-democracy to a healthier emerging democracy. It was not on par with Sweden, or even the United States by 2022, but it was in a better place than in 2014. Regardless of where they are in the democratic reform process, they are a sovereign country that was invaded in a war of conquest by their neighbor with no provocation. Because of this, most of the world believes that Ukraine deserves to have help defending itself from an invader.

There is pro-Russian media out there depicting Ukraine as it was 8 years ago and claiming that's the way it is today to try to convince people Ukraine is a **** country. The country has evolved and those reports are inaccurate. Ukraine is not a paragon of democratic values and corruption has been a problem (a legacy of the USSR), but the war has energized the government to crack down on corruption and they have rooted out a lot of it.

Also Ukrainian culture has changed. Stealing if you could get away with it was a virtue in the USSR and still is today in Russia. There was a lot of cultural tolerance to this sort of behavior before the war, which made it tough to root out. But the war has changed the culture and an attitude has set in that stealing weakens the war effort and is pro-Russian. That has caused people to turn on their neighbors who might try to nick things and the social pressure not to steal is now huge.

Another factor is almost everyone in Ukraine is now against just about every Russian social value. If Russians steal anything that isn't nailed down, the Ukrainians are going to be honest. Ukraine is becoming the most anti-Russian place on Earth. They were gravitating towards more European values before the war, they are now running to be more European than ever before.
The invasion of Kuwait by Iraq was a bit different than you think perhaps
 
The Youtube-channel 1420 has appeared or been referenced a couple of times in this thread. They just posted a picture with some short and simple statistics for 2022.

100 out of 179 videos in total were about the war.
85% of their videos were from Moscow.
Only 1 out of 5 agreed to participate(!)

I don't know about you, but that seems to indicate quite a lot about what kind of support the Russian Dictator really has.

Source:


EDIT:

And furthermore... That is probably the most accurate statistics out of Russia to date. Or does anyone else have something better?

If anyone is interested there might be more detailed statistics available if you contribute financially to their channel somehow. But you'll have to double check that for yourselves.
 
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Let's talk about what the US is getting out of Ukraine....​

  • An economic powerhouse aligned with Europe (worth $50B)
  • Russia in check with free Ukraine on border (worth $50B)
  • Degraded Russian military (worth >> $50B)
  • Rebuild reputation of US as the good guys (democracy vs authoritarianism)
As part of his four points, on the back side of this conflict will hopefully be a free and prosperous Ukraine right next door to Russia. There will be information flow back and forth and Russians will see what can be done if the population choose to govern itself and do so by the rule of law and not the rule of one man. Priceless.
 

Let's talk about what the US is getting out of Ukraine....​

  • An economic powerhouse aligned with Europe (worth $50B)
  • Russia in check with free Ukraine on border (worth $50B)
  • Degraded Russian military (worth >> $50B)
  • Rebuild reputation of US as the good guys (democracy vs authoritarianism)
Need to watch at 4X speed. This guy makes my Grampa Jack Richard sound like a chainsaw.
 
I find this post especially interesting for two reasons.

First, I would be willing to wager that a lot of the "sugar" you find so distasteful about Ukraine came from how Russia was managing the country as a "satellite" in the past. Corruption is the model by which Putin manages and it seems most Russians are ok with that or are ok with allowing it in their name provided they get what they need to survive. Who is the clown Manafort used to work for??? It seems Ukraine is at least trying to de-Russian stink itself (unlike someone like Orban who appears to be going the other way in Hungry). Your logic would seem to have you cheering for Ukraine.

As for US and the flags we are flying, flying your own flag is hurray for me while flying a Ukrainian flag is hurray for the fledgeling democracy standing up to the dictatorial imperialist. In short, it would appear those in the US flying the Ukrainian flag are flying their values.

It is entertaining that you do not see these contradictions in your writings. This indicates to me that the post is more agenda oriented then an attempt to add to an open discussion.
There’s sure a lot of folks feeding a troll I ignore…
 
Fair points in this assessment from Ryan.


And whilst I don't always agree with Aboulafia either, the underlying point he is making here is that China is at a very important crossroads where it may get a chance to rethink its recent pathway. Going all-in on the anti-West new Cold War path is looking a lot less attractive after the passage of 2022. And China is beginning to realise that the West is more cohesive in the ongoing conscious decoupling than they had bargained for. At least whilst Biden is in the White House, all bets are off if the US elects a Trumpist again.


Does Xi Jinping really fell that lucky. We'll see. Probably in about another million deaths.

 
A very long interview covering a lot of territory most are probably familiar with but this is the point where Julia says Putin took the gloves off with respect to Ukraine (1:20 to about 1:23).

There is a re-occuring theme within the interview regarding Putin. He is described as paranoid and that he believes no protest is organic; someone is orchestrating the show of discontent. That old saying that you always fear in others what you know of yourself holds hands nicely with the West constantly pushing democracy and here is an example next door of what happens when you do not stamp this stuff out in its infancy.

I've watched the interview to this point and I've got to admit that Putin has a point. We in the West are pushing democracy and thus, indirectly, emboldening change. We talk all the time here about Russians kicking Putin out. In short, Putin is not paranoid when he thinks "we" are all out to get him.

For all the fans of recent US politics, there is a point in the interview where Julia talks about the first time that Putin caught then dumped (as opposed to caught and kept for internal use) information on the US to sway opinion and then she goes on to say something like and we will see a lot more of it in 2016........... It's kinda like Calvin Trillin going on The Daily Show.
 
If there were any doubt, I support a people's right to determine their own destiny. I'm just acknowledging that Putin is not crazy when he thinks I am out to get him with my beliefs and making sure I understand there are consequences for my beliefs. I also come from an operational background and know by my very nature that problems are best resolved early on, seldom if ever go away by themselves and tend to metastasize if left unattended.
 
Fair points in this assessment from Ryan.


Overall a good article, but they missed the fact that several countries are increasing ammunition production to help Ukraine. The Czech Republic has already had a dramatic increase with more coming next year. When Eastern Europe broke away from the USSR and the cold war ended a lot of countries repurposed their munitions factories or tore them down. The main arms maker in the Czech Republic mothballed their production facilities instead. This year has been a process of dusting off the equipment and getting back into business. Their arms plants make Russian calibers, which the Ukrainians need too. The Ukrainians have more 152mm tubes than 155mm.

Perun made the point in his most recent video that all the talk is about American production capacity and all about 155mm artillery shells. Lots of countries make 155mm artillery shells. He points out that Australia expanded production just before the war in Ukraine began. Spain has a large manufacturer of shells which had a fair bit of unused capacity at the beginning of the war. South Korea makes huge numbers of 155mm shells, though politically they don't want to give shells directly to Ukraine, they could send ammunition to their allies so they can send their ammunition to Ukraine. There are several factories in Eastern Europe that can make Russian calibers of ammunition and most were running at less than full capacity when the war began. A lot have already spun up production.

Ultimately the supply problem for weapons the Ukrainians already have is more political than physical. The ammunition they need is out there and there is even enough production capacity to come pretty close to their stated needs. It's just a question of whether those countries want to see their weapons appear on the Ukrainian battlefields.

For weapons Ukraine wants, but haven't been provided like western aircraft and western tanks, the problems are probably at least partially real world problems. Providing a vehicle that is essentially a western truck with some features added is fairly easy to maintain, but western aircraft and tanks are complex beasts that require a lot of training to maintain. It is possible that mechanics are being quietly trained now. If so we may see these western weapons fairly soon.

On the other hand these more sophisticated weapons may not be appearing in Ukraine because somebody like China has threatened to step up help for Russia if these weapons are provided. If China decided to turn on the aid spigot to Russia to the same degree the US has done for Ukraine, Russia will be significantly boosted in their battlefield capabilities. Starving Russia of Chinese military aid is probably worth more than a few western tanks to the Ukrainians.

And whilst I don't always agree with Aboulafia either, the underlying point he is making here is that China is at a very important crossroads where it may get a chance to rethink its recent pathway. Going all-in on the anti-West new Cold War path is looking a lot less attractive after the passage of 2022. And China is beginning to realise that the West is more cohesive in the ongoing conscious decoupling than they had bargained for. At least whilst Biden is in the White House, all bets are off if the US elects a Trumpist again.

I'm sure China is re calibrating their chances of taking Taiwan.


Does Xi Jinping really fell that lucky. We'll see. Probably in about another million deaths.


It's possible we're entering another era of big governmental changes around the world. Iran is definitely getting wobbly, China may get more unstable, and Russia could go pear shaped with enough battlefield losses. I've had a feeling for sometime that China's experiment with communist-capitalism could fall apart. The deal between the communist party and the people is that the people will be allowed to get wealthy if the communists could stay in power and make all the top level decisions. When China had strong steady growth, it worked. But that was showing signs of weakening before the pandemic.

To keep the illusion of progress they built entire cities with nobody living in them. The one child policy did curb their population growth, but put a restriction in the next generation who someday will have to pay for their parents' generation's retirement. With a small cadre having to pay for a large cadre to retire, the smaller cadre has to be taxed pretty steeply, or the older generation just has to be left to starve. China does have a lot of financial reserves they can tap, but it's not enough to pay for the retirement of the older generation without raising taxes.

China's growth is also slowing. There are limits to all rapid growth and the curve will inevitably flatten out eventually. Since the pandemic the prospect sofr future growth have diminished even more. The world is still buying from China because they currently don't have any choice, but a lot of countries came to the stark realization they had become too dependent on China before the pandemic and there is a move in a lot of countries to move production back home, or to more reliable partners.

When people see their fortunes reverse, they are going to get upset with the government. The COVID protests are the tip of a larger iceberg of discontent in the Chinese population. And that discontent is going to grow in the coming years as countries shift to other sources for their goods.
 
Ukraine children's hospital hit during Russian bombardment

"A children’s hospital in Kherson, Ukraine was struck Sunday as the southern Ukrainian region continues to endure bombardment from Russian artillery and rocket fire.​
“In the first minutes of the New Year, Russia launched another terrorist attack,” Yaroslav Yanushevych, head of Kherson's military administration wrote on Telegram. “The enemy fired about seven shells at the Kherson Regional Children's Clinical Hospital.”​
“The neonatal building suffered significant destruction, two intensive care units were destroyed, and other medical offices of the main building were damaged,” Yanushevych said."​