Yeah but with all that awesome firepower Vlad's boys managed to capture Kiev and crush the puny Ukraine forces and save all Ukrainians from the NAZIs. Huzzah
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Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
Zelensky signed a law giving the state control of the media.
When you need to control the narrative this is what you do. Zelensky is just Putin light.
When you need to control the narrative this is what you do. Zelensky is just Putin light.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Link with proof please.
BitJam
Active Member
Zelensky signs media law criticized by journalist groups as authoritarian
President Volodymyr Zelensky on Dec. 29 signed into law a controversial bill on the media The Ukrainian authorities argued that the law aims to bring Ukrainian legislation in line with EU law and fight Russian propaganda. Media reform is one
The Bravery and the Recklessness of Ukraine’s Improvised Army
Helping repel the Russian invasion are army units with limited military experience. The question for their country is whether they can stay alive long enough to succeed.
www.wsj.com
RobStark
Well-Known Member
When Zelensky alters the Ukrainian Constitution to re-elect himself for a 3rd consecutive term and only a dozen of his critics have fallen out of high rise windows you can make that claim.
Sedition laws are not unheard of the USA in times of war. Not great. But it has been a while since the USA and West Europeans have been invaded.
You're in the US aren't you? No laws here against you spreading Putin's propaganda so don't sweat it.
The discussions about what Elon tweets have a tendency to permeate every thread, also this one. No more. I just removed another attempt to restart that senseless discourse. Take it to the Twitter thread in the Off Topic section.
The laws in the US does give the executive branch of the government more dictatorial powers during wars, but the laws are crafted so the powers only exist as long as the crisis does. I would prefer to see such laws in Ukraine. It is concerning that these laws are being passed without a sunset clause. We'll see what happens when the war is over.
Even in a liberal democracy with strong free speech laws needs to curb free speech to some degree during a war.
That's all you are here for, so yes in your case that's an affirmative. I have no problem with that as long as everyone understands your agenda. Besides you picked the wrong horse to back. Decency and democracy will win out over fascism and murderous dictatorship.
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I'm not "backing" anyone. I happen to think both are *sugar* countries governed by *sugar* people. Meanwhile, the lot in this thread put Ukraine on some sort of pedestal.
It is sad that in the US folks are flying Ukraine flags but not American flags.
You should get that sugar problem of yours checked out. That much sugar is not healthy at all.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Americans don't need to fly American flags, we know which country we live in and support.
Tiger
Active Member
That's probably a misunderstanding. Ukraine is only on a pedestal with respect to Russia and everyone is dunking on Russia because of their behavior and agenda and propaganda against the west and against their own people. Nothing else matters.
In the modern world invading your neighbors and trying to erase them from the map is a bright line in the sand that very few countries in the world and very few people (percentage of the total) tolerate. The world lined up against Iraq in 1991 when they tried a war of conquest on Kuwait.
Russia has gotten away with some land grabs in Georgia and Ukraine because the countries were not able to fight back and the rest of the world wasn't prepared for a full on war with Russia over portions of those countries.
Then Russia tried to erase Ukraine as a country and Ukraine was strong enough to resist, so the world has poured its resources into supporting Ukraine.
Ukraine has been making reforms to its military and government over the last 8 years. It has moved from a corrupt pseudo-democracy to a healthier emerging democracy. It was not on par with Sweden, or even the United States by 2022, but it was in a better place than in 2014. Regardless of where they are in the democratic reform process, they are a sovereign country that was invaded in a war of conquest by their neighbor with no provocation. Because of this, most of the world believes that Ukraine deserves to have help defending itself from an invader.
There is pro-Russian media out there depicting Ukraine as it was 8 years ago and claiming that's the way it is today to try to convince people Ukraine is a **** country. The country has evolved and those reports are inaccurate. Ukraine is not a paragon of democratic values and corruption has been a problem (a legacy of the USSR), but the war has energized the government to crack down on corruption and they have rooted out a lot of it.
Also Ukrainian culture has changed. Stealing if you could get away with it was a virtue in the USSR and still is today in Russia. There was a lot of cultural tolerance to this sort of behavior before the war, which made it tough to root out. But the war has changed the culture and an attitude has set in that stealing weakens the war effort and is pro-Russian. That has caused people to turn on their neighbors who might try to nick things and the social pressure not to steal is now huge.
Another factor is almost everyone in Ukraine is now against just about every Russian social value. If Russians steal anything that isn't nailed down, the Ukrainians are going to be honest. Ukraine is becoming the most anti-Russian place on Earth. They were gravitating towards more European values before the war, they are now running to be more European than ever before.
Sounds like the US is considering sending M-2 infantry fighting vehicles to Ukraine. We have a lot of them, and they're just collecting dust here. I say load a bunch on a ship and put them to work.
www.forbes.com
Ukraine Could Get American M-2 Fighting Vehicles. They’re Exactly What The Ukrainian Army Needs To Stay On The Offensive.
The administration of U.S. president Joe Biden is considering donating to Ukraine some of the U.S. Army’s redundant M-2 infantry fighting vehicles, Bloomberg reported.
www.forbes.com
petit_bateau
Active Member
Jings, these loss rates simply cannot be sustained before something breaks in the dam that is the fortified line.
At what point do the troops decide they stand a better chance of surviving an attack on Putin then idiotic assaults to gain a few meters of a country that’s not theirs?
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I find this post especially interesting for two reasons.
First, I would be willing to wager that a lot of the "sugar" you find so distasteful about Ukraine came from how Russia was managing the country as a "satellite" in the past. Corruption is the model by which Putin manages and it seems most Russians are ok with that or are ok with allowing it in their name provided they get what they need to survive. Who is the clown Manafort used to work for??? It seems Ukraine is at least trying to de-Russian stink itself (unlike someone like Orban who appears to be going the other way in Hungry). Your logic would seem to have you cheering for Ukraine.
As for US and the flags we are flying, flying your own flag is hurray for me while flying a Ukrainian flag is hurray for the fledgeling democracy standing up to the dictatorial imperialist. In short, it would appear those in the US flying the Ukrainian flag are flying their values.
It is entertaining that you do not see these contradictions in your writings. This indicates to me that the post is more agenda oriented then an attempt to add to an open discussion.
