Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Russia/Ukraine conflict

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.

Some highlights:
  • Many in Washington believe concerns in the White House about the war’s impact on the campaign are prompting growing caution on the amount of support
  • American hesitation contrasts with shifting views in Europe, where more leaders over recent months have come to believe that Ukraine must prevail in the conflict—and Russia must lose—to ensure the continent’s security.
  • Criticizes UKR tactics
  • Russian drones and attack helicopters, particularly Kamov Ka-52 “Alligator” gunships, have proven particularly dangerous
  • U.S. Defense Department analysts knew early this year that Ukraine’s front-line troops would struggle against RU air attacks
Biden's reticence (probably his influential staff) to provide aircraft and long range missiles are key reasons why the offensive will ultimately stall and fail.

Suitable response:

 
She looked more sincere here, though:
Mussolini was a good politician. Everything Mussolini did, he did it for Italy.
That was in 1996.

She was then campaigning for the MSI party, whose leader – Francofini – proclaimed:
  • 1988: "Dear comrades, MSI claims its right to refer to fascism"
  • 1991: "We are fascists, the heirs of fascism, the fascism of the year 2000"
  • 1992: "After almost half a century, the idea of fascism is alive"
    1994: "There are phases where freedom is not among the key values"
  • 1994: "Mussolini was the greatest Italian statesman of the twentieth century" (uh oh)
  • 1994: "Fascism has a tradition of honesty, correctness and good government"
Things have changed, I guess (like learning some lessons on how to be elected, getting full Western support while moving Europe fast to the farthest-right).
 
Last edited:
The WSJ has a rightwing slant. We just had a post that the F16s will be in Ukraine by the end of the year. We've seen several posts of disinformation regarding the allied support for Ukraine. The only people a defeat of Ukraine helps are the extremist Pro-Putin faction. Otherwise this is a bipartisan issue in the US. So sowing doubt helps the anti-Ukraine side. The first point is just ludicrous that support for Ukraine in any way hurts Biden's campaign.
disagree on a couple of points:

1) Planes and long range missiles should have been sent already. Biden and/or his staff have been slow to move on this (and quite frankly other weaponry) and getting them by winter is still late for this year’s offensive

2) Journal has moved politically over the last few years (Murdoch sons’ influence) with the Editorial Board staunchly Right but the general reporting is now left wing oriented.

FWIW: A smart business move to cater to both sides of the spectrum (I subscribe to both the WSJ & NYT and read every day the guardian and The Telegraph. I like to see multiple viewpoints and then judge situations appropriately).
 

Some highlights:
  • Many in Washington believe concerns in the White House about the war’s impact on the campaign are prompting growing caution on the amount of support
  • American hesitation contrasts with shifting views in Europe, where more leaders over recent months have come to believe that Ukraine must prevail in the conflict—and Russia must lose—to ensure the continent’s security.
  • Criticizes UKR tactics
  • Russian drones and attack helicopters, particularly Kamov Ka-52 “Alligator” gunships, have proven particularly dangerous
  • U.S. Defense Department analysts knew early this year that Ukraine’s front-line troops would struggle against RU air attacks
Biden's reticence (probably his influential staff) to provide aircraft and long range missiles are key reasons why the offensive will ultimately stall and fail.

As others have pointed out, I think the WSJ has gone downhill since the Murdochs bought it. While long range missiles and western aircraft would have helped Ukraine, they aren't a magic bullet.

Perun talks about a country builds their military for the kind of fight they expect. The US has built out the best logistics network any military power has ever had because the US knows any fight it gets into is going to be a long ways from home. Finland has built a large army that can be mobilized quickly, but it is mostly infantry and is built to defend the home territory of Finland.

The equipment of the NATO armies is designed to be part of an integrated force with the US as the backbone. When some NATO countries wanted to use military action to remove Kadafi, the US had to be involved because it was the only country that had the command and control apparatus to run the operation.

NATO doctrine is built around overwhelming air power. And not just air power, but air power that can operate at incredibly long ranges from safe bases well out of enemy range. Air power is the core force, with land forces there to secure land the air power opens up. The land phase of the first Gulf War was like cracking an egg with a sledge hammer in part because the allies over estimated Iraqi strength, but what strength they had was crippled by air power before the first tank moved in.

The weapons being given to Ukraine were designed to work within the NATO world and individually they have limits. Most western jets are intended to be launched well out of the range of enemy weapons and then aerial tankers will fuel them on their way in if the range is too long. Considerations for field denial attacks is not part of the calculus because the idea is that the air fields will be out of enemy range. Historically they have been.

Ukraine is going to have to operate these planes in country within range of Russian weapons. Russia will be able to damage the airfields and keep Ukrainian aircraft grounded some of the time. Russia's planes are not as capable as NATO aircraft, but they were designed to operate in an environment that would be within the range of enemy attacks and the fields would probably be getting chewed up by the enemy.

NATO design has not taken into consideration a war in which NATO forces did not have at least air superiority within a short time of the opening of hostilities. There are air defense systems, but NATO has lagged behind Russia in the numbers and the long range capabilities. NATO never developed a long range AD system because it had plenty of F-15s and F-14s (now F/A-18s) that could do that job just fine. AD in NATO doctrine is there to catch anything that slips through the usually thick CAP provided by fighters. There isn't a big need for a lot of them.

I have seen speculation that the US has been reluctant to provide ATACMS largely because the US doesn't have many of them, they are out of production, and the replacement isn't in production yet. The US has a relative few of them to fill gaps that might be left from aircraft doing ground attack. There was never a plan to use many of them, so only a few were built.

The US just did a successful test of a stop gap ATACMS replacement. They adapted the Tomahawk cruise missile to be launched from a ground based system. The USN has lots of Tomahawks, so if the Army can make the Tomahawk adaption easily, that may free up a lot of long range missiles to give to Ukraine.

The Storm Shadows have been provided in numbers because they are an air launched weapon and the British and French have a lot of them.

Western fighters will provide an easy launch platform for a wide array of western missiles and bombs, which is a good thing, but keeping them in the air is going to be difficult in the current climate in Ukraine. The Russians will identify where these planes are coming from and will be doing all they can to keep the runways shut down. Western planes being more prone to injecting debris on the ground makes this easier for the Russians.

There is also an element here of the Russians doing things the west didn't expect. The willingness of the Russians to throw away lives is one factor. Another is the number of mines the Russians decided to sow. The density and scope of the mine fields is something nobody has seen in 80 years. The US has provided M58 MICLICs, but it will need to provide more. The US may not have enough because again, it never expected to face this level of mining.

Talk of the massive scope of these minefields is something that I've been seeing a lot of lately from war analysts. A NATO force might get bogged down dealing with these sorts of fortifications.

The focus of taking out artillery as well as strangling Russian supply might give the Ukrainian combat engineers the opening they need to start clearing paths through the minefields, but it's going to be slow going to get through the fields. Clearing all the mines after the war is going to be a major headache and a big opportunity for the creative tech people.

Once again, Zeihan claims the rail was never returned to full capacity, only one line running and capable of passenger or light cargo only.


This is one thing I'm not sure he is right about. I recall the Russians replacing the damaged section of the rail bridge from the first attack and re-opening it.

The second attack has had a knock on effect on Russian supply. Russia has pressed most of the over the road trucks in the country into service driving supply out of Donbas into the south of the country. The Ukrainians have been able to keep the main rail link in the south under enough threat that a lot of supply has moved to the road. A few months ago someone driving the coast road into Mariupol posted a video of the road going the other way and it was wall to wall semis. It's a small 2 lane road that is taking a lot more traffic than it was designed for.

All those tourists who were trapped in Crimea fled through the occupied territory causing massive traffic jams that those trucks returning from their deliveries got stuck in. As a result, supply has slowed to a crawl in the area causing the supply problems the Russians had already to get a lot worse.
 
Ret. Gen. Wesley Clark is not happy with the Biden Administration’s stance on this:

At 08:27 in the embedded vid below:

"
In 1973 when president Nixon said get TOW-missiles and defensive stuff to Israel right away and it took 48 hours. If president Biden were to say to the Pentagon right now: ’I want the ATACAMS missiles in Ukraine next week’ there would be ATACAMS missiles next week. […] It could be done.
"

At 08:53 in the embedded vid below:

"
When I look at the administration I think they sort of feel like let's end this thing, let's get a negotiated settlement and we'll back the Ukrainians as long as they continue to fight and a little nervous about Crimea and Putin gets an escalation. So they'll wear down and there will be a peace conference over the winter and then you can beat Ukraine and there's no war and it's sort of what we expect some people inside are maybe saying.

Ukrainians are not just saying that. They want their Country back. They are increasingly aware of the profound threat posed by president Putin and in the last NATO summit it was actually the United States which was holding back on that European saying let's get them in, let's get them in. The U.S. Is going, not so fast so it's a bargaining chip with Putin that might be something that you could work with if you're doing negotiations.
"

And there's more... Youtube has a transcript of this vid.

 
Last edited:
It's very rarely that the word sincere can describe a politician ;) There was actually a research (which I cannot find now, this is the closest Icould find now) which shows that a lying politician would be more successful than a honest one, because the lying one can always sell the deal of the day.

If a politician is lying, then everyone has a responsibility to call them out on their lie – especially those in the press that should be doing this for a living.
 
Ret. Gen. Wesley Clark is not happy with the Biden Administration’s stance on this:

At 08:27 in the embedded vid below:

"
In 1973 when president Nixon said get TOW-missiles and defensive stuff to Israel right away and it took 48 hours. If president Biden were to say to the Pentagon right now: ’I want the ATACAMS missiles in Ukraine next week’ there would be ATACAMS missiles next week. […] It could be done.
"

At 08:53 in the embedded vid below:

"
When I look at the administration I think they sort of feel like let's end this thing, let's get a negotiated settlement and we'll back the Ukrainians as long as they continue to fight and a little nervous about Crimea and Putin gets an escalation. So they'll wear down and there will be a peace conference over the winter and then you can beat Ukraine and there's no war and it's sort of what we expect some people inside are maybe saying.

Ukrainians are not just saying that. They want their Country back. They are increasingly aware of the profound threat posed by president Putin and in the last NATO summit it was actually the United States which was holding back on that European saying let's get them in, let's get them in. The U.S. Is going, not so fast so it's a bargaining chip with Putin that might be something that you could work with if you're doing negotiations.
"

And there's more... Youtube has a transcript of this vid.


The reluctance to let in Ukraine wasn't just the US. The Germans objected too. It's easy for the small countries that won't be doing much of the fighting to want Ukraine in, but the US faces committing a lot of blood and treasure to this if it gets dragged into the war.

Germany is probably slow rolling this because their military is the furthest from being prepared for war among the larger countries in the alliance.
 

"Belarus Red Cross says it is involved in transfer of children out of Ukraine

Claims from head of organisation spark outrage in Kyiv and from the International Federation of Red and Red Crescent Societies

Associated Press
Thu 20 Jul 2023 01.42 BST


The Belarus Red Cross has sparked international outrage after its chief told Belarusian state television that the organisation is actively involved in bringing Ukrainian children from Russian-occupied areas to Belarus.

Both Ukraine and the Belarusian opposition have labelled the transfers unlawful deportations, and there have been calls for international war crimes charges for the authoritarian Belarus leader, similar to the charges against Russian president Vladimir Putin. [..."

 
Testimony from an employee of the State Service of Emergency Situations at the Ukrainian rescue service who was working with ordnance disposal(?), when the Russian Dictator's serfs fled from Kherson.

Allegedly:

Prams/baby carriages, children's thermoses, fenced dedicated areas where dogs can run around without a leach, baby cribs and bodies of dead civilians were booby trapped so that relatives would explode when they took their dead relatives in their arms. The Russian Dictator's minions also booby trapped the electricity supply/infrastructure.

From:

 
1690220550876.png
 
If a politician is lying, then everyone has a responsibility to call them out on their lie – especially those in the press that should be doing this for a living.

Calling out rarely helps as democracy bundled with fake and biased/grift news has its flaws. Russia is a prime example, and they operate globally, but are not alone. I won't digress further.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UncaNed