nativewolf
Active Member
They have managed to pull out of Kherson and Lyman without the losses predicted. Stories of 12k soldiers will be backed up by thousands of captured soldiers such as happened at the initial Kharkiv counter-offense where they did actually capture a couple of thousand. I don't see it. What I saw was a video of the soldiers walking out on the pontoon bridge at a very measured interval and that interval would require 7 or 8 hours to move all 12k troops. They had that time and more. They gathered in two points and simply walked across. Maybe some died in a bridge explosion when a HIMARS attack hit the two bridges, small losses compared to capturing 12k.The commander wasn't out there building and maintaining bridges and directing traffic. It took some pre-war trained people on the ground to pull that off.
There were stories that there were about 12,000 troops left on the right bank when the evacuation ended. All part of a regular unit and not conscripts. Though at this point none of their units are very elite anymore. The losses to their most elite units in the early part of the war has forced them to fill out those units with new people while in combat.
A unit with a lot of veterans can absorb some green replacements while in active combat without suffering a big drop in effectiveness, but if the unit has taken significant losses it should be withdrawn and rebuilt rather than just feed in replacements. The VDV and marine units that were hit hard in the first few months of the war were given a large number of new troops with no time to fully integrate them into the units before being shoved back into combat.
Even before the war these units were below par compared to regular NATO units. ChrisO on Twitter had a long thread about a former VDV soldier who had gone back into the military a year or two before the war after being out a few years. He got out when they were still allowing soldiers to leave when their contracts were up and left the country to avoid being drawn back in.
It's worth reading how bad Russian training is, even in elite units, this is part 1 of 6
Thread by @ChrisO_wiki on Thread Reader App
Another good insight into how poor the Russian army is comes from Perun's latest video on how lying corrupts an army. It's been posted here a few times, but you can find it quickly in a YouTube search. My partner is usually bored by Perun videos, but she found that one fascinating.
The withdrawal from Kherson was unusually well executed. Part of it was due to the large minefields the Russians left behind that the Ukrainians had to get around or through, plus the Ukrainians were being cautious about potential traps so they were moving slowly.
I wouldn't use it as an example of how good the Russian military is though. They have a severe morale problem. They probably had no problem of motivating troops to retreat. They have a lot of problems getting them to attack or even defend positions. The true quality of an army is in how it fights, not in how it retreats.
The soldiers that were captured in civilian clothes seemed more likely to be run of the mill deserters than anything else.
Pulling off that retreat, Kherson, takes a huge amount of planning combined with huge amounts of misdirection and the execution. That is a general staff effort across a 100km front. It requires very precise command and control and great opsec. They did all of that. They left almost no good armor or heavy equipment. Almost nothing. Munitions are sparse too. It wasn't a case of Kharkiv II. This was a careful designed withdrawal with excellent planning and execution. Pulling all the heavy equipment across the dam only at night and keeping it all dispersed so there were no concentration points. On and on. The russian army may be a shadow of itself but any army would have been proud of that disengagement. Textbook stuff. Disengaging is far easier than an offense but still...fraught with risks.