JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Why reward the aggressor when they are losing?
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Russia/Ukraine conflict
- Thread starter amolina
- Start date
petit_bateau
Active Member
When you say "we are the mediators"
That sound awfully like a useful fool acting as a Kremlin apologist saying "take the rapist into your own house, and let him keep your wife and daughters in chains"
The "we" certainly is not "me" so please don't try to position yourself as speaking for "us".
And in any case this is a negotiation that should be entirely for Ukraine to lead on with no pressure whatsoever from the West.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
If I have offended - apologies. Isn't there usually a mediator in these things?
Putin's soldiers have actually raped women. Just trying to stop it. Not that I think either side is taking too many notes on TMC threads.
There is no mediation in unconditional surrender
Great to see all this. All the recent things posted about former connected people who want to be relevant again, saying how the allies are beginning to give up on Ukraine when the reality is they continue to supply what is needed, even if not as fast as we'd like. Hopefully people take note who the lying propaganda flunkies of Putler are for when this is over to make sure they never get back any real power in the future.Interesting snippets
Exclusive: Russia’s Spies Say Putin Faces More Coups
Yevgeny Prigozhin's coup attempt in June left everyone in the world stunned - except Russian intelligence officials, some of whom tacitly supported the catering magnate's efforts. In this exclusive for The Insider, sources in the FSB, GRU and Ministry of Internal Affairs explain why Vladimir...theins.ru
Last edited:
How did that appeasement thing go in 1939? "We" think the Poles may have read something about that in their history books.
Tiger
Active Member
Tiger
Active Member
Stop the apologism. Here's an off ramp for Putin:
Russia has foreign assets and collaterals which can all be sanctioned and confiscated regardless if Russia exists, collapses, relapses, or rehabilitates.
Last edited by a moderator:
petit_bateau
Active Member
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Allegedly:
"Danish beverage manufacturer Carlsberg has confirmed that it has completely lost control of its business in Russia. According to the company, the change of Russian leadership was made without informing and consenting to the parent company Carlsberg. Guys, russia is NOT a country, it's a MOB. You do business with a mob in a mob way only."
From:
Are the Russian Dictator's serfs running low on aviation grade duct tape?...
"Danish beverage manufacturer Carlsberg has confirmed that it has completely lost control of its business in Russia. According to the company, the change of Russian leadership was made without informing and consenting to the parent company Carlsberg. Guys, russia is NOT a country, it's a MOB. You do business with a mob in a mob way only."
From:
Are the Russian Dictator's serfs running low on aviation grade duct tape?...
Maybe the Russians are running out of schools and hospitals to attack.
Russian missiles strike grain depots in Odesa region
Russian missiles strike grain depots in Odesa region
What I see in that comment is more a veiled threat than a gambit for negotiation. More a "we made you and we can destroy you" than a "let's talk".
Don't hold your breath for Russia to become a democratic state. The bulk of Russians associate democracy with chaos. The one time Russia tried a (flawed) form of democracy, the country had a decade of complete chaos, the 90s. It left a bad taste in the mouth for anyone who lived through it.
Life in the west was generally pretty good in the 90s. The internet boom combined with the end of the cold war made life pretty good for a lot of the west. The former Warsaw Pact countries didn't fare as well, but it was a time of optimism now that the big bad Soviets were gone.
In Russia the situation was very different. They were trying democracy, sort of, but the country was in utter chaos as basically organized crime seized all the assets of the Soviet Union. On paper everyone had an ownership right, the criminals were getting people to give up their rights for pennies.
Putin was seen as a great stabilizing force in Russia. He calmed the chaos and the country settled into a new reality.
If Russia breaks up some of the new countries might try democracy if they come into the influence of the west, but the attitude toward democracy among most Russians is very negative.
There is a notion in a lot of people in the west that democracy is inevitable if people are given a chance. The reality is that if left to their own devices countries tend to devolve into dictatorships. They may have some trappings of democracy, but an actual liberal democracy is not natural and needs to be nurtured. It's now the norm in the developed world, but that happened because of a lot of work after WW I and later WW II.
Everywhere Ukraine has taken back territory, they have found that the Russians were brutal overlords in the territories they controlled. Torture, rape, summary executions, and other atrocities were the norm in any territory they held. That's almost certainly going on in the occupied territories today.
That will continue in the occupied territories if Ukraine gives up any of its sovereign territory to end the war. If this war doesn't end with a clear cut defeat of Russia with the country basically rendered incapable of returning, Putin or his successor will just take the time of peace to rearm and will be back in a few years.
That's why Ukraine considers the return of the 1991 borders a non-negotiable peace term. They don't think it's acceptable that any Ukrainians be left in the torture chamber.
This came out a couple of days ago. It's a discussion about how this war ends with a number of diplomats including Fiona Hill.
Unconditional surrender is rare in warfare and that is almost certainly not how this war will end. Political collapse in Russia is a possible scenario where this ends, but that isn't unconditional surrender which would involve Ukraine occupying Russia.
Training for combined arms is tough. Countries rarely get much better at it while at war. The US did during WW II, but it also took a long time to train up new units. For example the 106th Infantry Division was a green unit just arrived in theater in December 1944 and it was the 1st unit the Germans contacted in the Ardennes Offensive (Battle of the Bulge). The unit was created on paper in 1942 and began to come together in March 1943. It wasn't deployed until the end of 1944. Even with 18 months of training their performance in combat was poor.
The Ukrainians haven't been able to take those kind of time scales to put together their units.
Though that must be old. Marin stepped down about a year ago.
A couple of cascading points:
(1) And foreign interests in Russia can be confiscated as well; despite many companies having departed, many, many billions of assets remain.
(2) And to that I say "TOO BAD!" Mondelez and Danone and Exxon Mobil played with fire; they have dirt as well as blood on their hands and Gee What A Shame...it is not.
(3) That said, these three examples and many others are very, very heavy hitters…meaning very heavy lobbyers…meaning they will be moving heaven and earth to be first First FIRST in line in D.C. and other world capitals demanding they get their relief first. Yecch.
On edit: I see now that in between hosting a bbq party at the same time as trying to write this post, @SwedishAdvocate presented poor Carlsberg's situation. Poor, poor Carlsberg.
Girkin (Strelkov) Jailed in Russia. Crimes against humanity ok, but calling for Putler's head to be lopped off was just too much.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
khorton
Member
The Twitter thread has multiple replies claiming this video was from 2022, during the first few months of the war.
petit_bateau
Active Member
Yes, it was a long ways back. I remember the video.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
melvladimir
Member
As their national TV said: they focused on causing famine (it is not clear: "in Ukraine" or "in the World", particularly in Africa) to bargain about reducing sanctions. Nothing new, just terrorists. Like it was last winter season when they had been striking power plants every week and wanted Ukrainians to freeze.
