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S to Porsche Taycan
- Thread starter Passifier
- Start date
Tesla absolutely ruined an opportunity to own the ev market with not only their flagship models (S and X) but also with mid level entry cars with the 3 by putting a superior battery in a car that’s was $100k less than the S or X. The comparison would be like buying S600 With a V6 engine for $160k and than having a C class with a V12 for $45k. Most logical people are going to go with the C class cause it has the better engine plus is 1/4 of the price. Well the 3 has a better battery therefore it can cool faster, charge faster, get better range, has better performance based on the same battery comparison. Which they even added performance to it later and made it even faster. Which also raises the question, is the battery still able to add even more performance through an update?
They should have never released a cheaper car with a superior battery... instead they should have waited until they installed them in their real money margin cars (S and X) and the sales would not have declined to awful numbers. They still would’ve had the demand for their high end flagship models rather than selling 80k model 3’s last quarter out of 90k+ total sales. Meaning the S and X account for just over $10k in sales last quarter. Comprende
⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️
Village Idiot
You seem to be trolling every thread I follow.
If
You caught me lol. I’m just trying to explain things in Lehman terms since I don’t like typing multiple paragraphs... there seems to be a loss of translation if I don’t break it down to a T
MelvinLee, I am not sure you are seeing this from all sides. I'm sure their management spent a lot of time agonizing about the best way to go forward; these are not incompetent people and they are doing their best to achieve whichever goal it is they are trying to achieve (some combination of tesla surviving, growing, and making the world better...we'll never know what they hold most dear)
Limited resources and limited budget means it was likely an either or. Update S or release model 3. If that is the case, I tend to side with the management. The model 3 really is the killer app right now. To give that a pass to puff up model S sales for maybe another year or two just doesn't seem worth it. The margins on model S were not sustainable forever, eventually there would be enough players in the market they'd come down, and, if you believe Tesla's mission...the model 3 made a MUCH bigger impact in the industry and got WAY more EVs in peoples hands, so from the perspective I again tend to side with management. If they had handicapped the 3 to support S sales...I'm pretty sure the company would be out of money right now as it would not be selling as well as it has been.
If your take is right, sounds like you are more interested in milking money out of people whereas it sounds like Tesla forwent some easy profit to move things forward as far as EVs went...in which case, I'll side with Tesla. Alternately, maybe Tesla can do basic math and figured out they had to grow fast enough that they can afford all that capex (i.e. debt) in order to be viable in the next couple of years. In that case, sounds like Tesla did the right thing.
Basically, what I'm trying to say, is that yes, they could have made a couple of extra bucks with updating the model S first but chose not to for what are likely some tough but real reasons. Profit margin is nice, but a large piece of a small pie is still a small piece (lets assume for the next 30 seconds the payback in profit is coming with the Y...if that fails, we can revisit if they made the right decision!). Besides, the new raven is starting to correct things and Plaid will put them back on top, (but at more typical automotive margin. That's about a year or so of not being undeniably the king of the hill in all aspects, 'normal' auto companies go through that with every model every 3 or 4 years! Cars are a hard business.
Limited resources and limited budget means it was likely an either or. Update S or release model 3. If that is the case, I tend to side with the management. The model 3 really is the killer app right now. To give that a pass to puff up model S sales for maybe another year or two just doesn't seem worth it. The margins on model S were not sustainable forever, eventually there would be enough players in the market they'd come down, and, if you believe Tesla's mission...the model 3 made a MUCH bigger impact in the industry and got WAY more EVs in peoples hands, so from the perspective I again tend to side with management. If they had handicapped the 3 to support S sales...I'm pretty sure the company would be out of money right now as it would not be selling as well as it has been.
If your take is right, sounds like you are more interested in milking money out of people whereas it sounds like Tesla forwent some easy profit to move things forward as far as EVs went...in which case, I'll side with Tesla. Alternately, maybe Tesla can do basic math and figured out they had to grow fast enough that they can afford all that capex (i.e. debt) in order to be viable in the next couple of years. In that case, sounds like Tesla did the right thing.
Basically, what I'm trying to say, is that yes, they could have made a couple of extra bucks with updating the model S first but chose not to for what are likely some tough but real reasons. Profit margin is nice, but a large piece of a small pie is still a small piece (lets assume for the next 30 seconds the payback in profit is coming with the Y...if that fails, we can revisit if they made the right decision!). Besides, the new raven is starting to correct things and Plaid will put them back on top, (but at more typical automotive margin. That's about a year or so of not being undeniably the king of the hill in all aspects, 'normal' auto companies go through that with every model every 3 or 4 years! Cars are a hard business.
No I believe they would have still had their model 3 market combined with an increasing S and X sales as well. So it would have been a win all the way around.
Just show you understand how market cap is calculated and what it really means. Your welcomeMelvin, please stop embarrassing yourself on this forum... if you continue with this behavior you will be banned eventually.
Sorry, but it sounds like you are intentionally trying to be negative. I really don't understand why this forum is full of people twisting every single misstep into something as negative as possible. What the heck do you get out of it? Do you honestly get your happiness by point out flaws in people that are trying their best? If you're unhappy about something, bring it up and we'll discuss, but this rude negativity is not OK just because we are on the internet.
Before every post think of the thousands of people at Tesla working their buts off trying to fix these problems. They are real people, doing their best in a monumental balancing act driven by the mission to try to make the world better. I'd rather support that than take pot shots from safely behind my keyboard. I'm sure they all would like to hear how they can do better but combative, insulting tones won't achieve anything.
Tesla certainly has growing pains with service; however, if you have an actual problem (i.e. my car won't turn on) you typically get quick effective service. Normal service you just sign up to on your app and you don't even need to call anyone! The people at the service centre are indeed very friendly in my experience and they go way over and above to help you out. There will always be a case you can find to say how they screwed up, but that is the exception, not the rule.
To be clear, I'm not saying don't discuss areas they can improve, but why can't we act civilly on the internet, the same I would expect of anyone in person.
What if that's not an option. If I asked you to choose, make the model S even more sweet or make the model 3 (which had a hundred thousand people or so sign up for it before even seeing it, which tells you the product, in theory, is something people want) what would you do? For me, I'd likely end up making similar decisions as Tesla. I'm sure the engineering teams wishes they could just keep making the S more amazing, but that all costs money and complication. FSD on its own is taking a pretty significant part of the pie not to mention all of the other programs that they are trying to bring online.
I think your over analyzing and clearly not seeing what I am writing. If you notice I wrote that the employees are still friendly af however calling into Tesla isn’t the same as it once was. Like every other dealer they use to have an actual operator. Now you get an automated machine in which you choose your purpose of calling only to get relayed to a answering machine 90% of the time. It was not like that about 8 months ago. They had an actual operator who would direct your call or take down a message so that they could return your call in a timely fashion. Seems pretty straight forward and an informative analysis of the changes that have occurred
They did make a decision and your opinion is that is was the best choice while I disagree
Totally true!!! 3 has better battery and guys and screen for way less money!!!why?
it's like BMW making the 3 series nicer then the 7...in so far as truck of the car. Lame move for model s owners.
I think the 3 is ugly inside and out compared to the s but it has better tech for cheaper so no sh it they sell to more people and I see way more then model s or x on the road now.
I don’t believe doing what they did was best for the company. The model 3 had its first month where Teslas stock rose and I had a good amount and sold it not long after. My reasoning is that Tesla was sustaining positive growth with just the S and X and I feel like the 3 took away from them being able to build the car to the level it should be at. It’s still a great car as far as the battery and technology but it doesn’t seem like they were able to commit the time needed to perfect it due to being rushed. Ever since the 3 came out Tesla’s stock has declined even tho they had a few great quarters of sales. However the one main variable that is missing was the sales of the S and X. Which ultimately lead to them dropping the price not once but twice which I feel left a sour taste in a lot of owners mouth who purchased before these discounts.
Now I believe Elon realizes there is still a market for $150-$200k performance sedans after seeing Porsche release theirs. Hopefully they can manufacturer the S and X with the 2170 cells in a decent timeframe while also changing the cars look considerably. Including the interior. If they can I think they have a great chance to regain the sale they once had with those models.
I also think it’s extremely important to get the roadster released before the Y or any other car. A car like that can put them in great competition against all other exotic cars. Which I believe would be huge for their image. These are my opinions.
I agree! The 3 to me looks rushed and boring like a BMW or even Honda civic. That screen position reminds me of Johnny cab from the movie total recall! And the model s price drops really slap previous owners in the face and DO leave a bad taste in the mouth!
And yet the tesla rental places have had rentals with 100d's and they are doing really well, cost of service at $0.05/mile compared to a merc at $0.22 or a Lincoln at almost $0.22. Of course they only have 400,000 or 500,000 miles on them so who knows, let them get some real miles.
You guys both have to be joking...you are going to change the world by building race cars? Self driving will get here and when it does Tesla will be crushing folks. The other competitors will be scrambling to buy Uber, I would guess toyota buys them but who knows.
5 years is nothing to a car company, your latest Porsche toy took 10 years to get onto a track. What's 5? Development time for 1 car at Tesla or approval time at Porsche. 5 years is nothing. Of course I work in an industry where 40 years is about our planning horizon, we plant forest and harvest in 40 years so we have to have a certain perspective, after 5 years I'll know if planting went well. About as far from track racing as you can get. The flip side is we're really good at modeling and projections and can cut through all kinds of BS.
dark cloud
Active Member
Lehman's Terms
A form of communication between an employer and an employee, whereas the employer communicates absolutely nothing to the employee in the 24 hours prior to their demise.
