SEC pursuing a contempt charge for tweet

[OPRCE]

Well, he's gonna soon have his chance to convince the Judge he holds SEC in contempt, but not the Court's orders ... a very fine line to draw:

 

[CalX]

Not a lawyer, but I am a CEO and have been at more than 1 company (translation: I know what 'material information' is and what can/can't be shared.

1. Investors here on TMC are probably all savvy enough to have educated themselves on the earnings call where Elon said "350-500,000" but there's many investors out there (especially smaller ones) who wouldn't have picked up that detail and who only saw Elon's Tweet of "around 500,000". Even then it would be normal to believe that the more exact "around 500" was a narrowed refinement of the earlier EC statement

2. It's stretches imagination to equate the range "350-500" to "around 500". If you were invited to a party that started "somewhere between 7.00-10.00pm" you'd have to take a guess what the actual time would be; if you were told that the party started "around 9.00pm" that's much more material to your decision making

3. Elon effectively admitted the error by issuing a correction following a post-Tweet review

4. So what if it was after hours, there's after hours trading

5. Under normal circumstances this wouldn't be a big deal, but Elon had made an agreement and he broke it

6. The "zero in 2011" was also demonstrably false btw. (E.g.see my 2011 Tesla in my sig pic)

This is a self-inflicted wound, the SEC (love them or hate them) is strictly following the letter of the law and Elon violated his agreement; I don't get why he Tweets stuff like that, it's not needed, it gets him into trouble and helps no-one. Elon's way smarter than most of us, he should just drop the Twitter self-harm and carry on being an everyday genius.

It has been mentioned elsewhere but worth repeating here since it is not mentioned in this thread. The 350k to 500k figure he gave was for model 3 production only. His tweet about 500k was talking about Tesla production in general. Given expected production of X and S of 80k, that should put model 3 production at 420k which is right in the middle of the range he gave.

 

[heltok]

What is the definition of material information?

Considering taking Tesla private = material. Moved the stock 10%(don’t remember exactly)
500k in 2019 = material. Moved the stock 0%
2pm Californa = not material. Moved the stock 6%
SEC investigating Tesla = material(?!). Moved the stock 4%.

 

[Matt L]

It has been mentioned elsewhere but worth repeating here since it is not mentioned in this thread. The 350k to 500k figure he gave was for model 3 production only. His tweet about 500k was talking about Tesla production in general. Given expected production of X and S of 80k, that should put model 3 production at 420k which is right in the middle of the range he gave.

It’s still additional guidance and it wasn’t reviewed.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

It’s still additional guidance and it wasn’t reviewed.

If I quote your post, have I now posted something new and material? I would argue I have not.

 

[Matt L]

If I quote your post, have I now posted something new and material? I would argue I have not.

Are you a CEO and have zero’d in on the upper range of previous guidance?

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Are you a CEO and have zero’d in on the upper range of previous guidance?

Yes to both.

 

[neroden]

The vast majority of amicus briefs are filed in appellate courts. The Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, which govern proceedings in federal district (trial level) courts, do not even mention amicus curaire filings. But see: Rule 29. Brief of an Amicus Curiae Rule 37. Brief for an Amicus Curiae .

Thanks very much, Brian!

Whether a district court judge will allow an amicus brief to be filed, let alone consider it once filed, is entirely at the district judge's discretion. "Friend of the court" submittals that offer the district judge information not otherwise available in the parties' filings are as rare as ethical politicians.

Let's do it. The extreme rarity of such a filing should wake up the judge and make her think twice about what's going on, *even if she doesn't allow it to be filed*.

What we're trying to do is to make the judge aware that there's something hinky going on here: tons and tons of deceitful market manipulation done by bears ignored by the SEC, multiple examples which appear to be trading on inside information (the puts bought after Consumer Reports leaked to the press but before they published anything publicly, and IIRC there was another dramatic example some months ago), but the SEC jumps on a tweet with non-material information which doesn't move the stock price. This situation is something the judge is not aware of. Let's MAKE her aware of it.

(copied from other thread)

 

[Ulmo]

Thanks very much, Brian!



Let's do it. The extreme rarity of such a filing should wake up the judge and make her think twice about what's going on, *even if she doesn't allow it to be filed*.

What we're trying to do is to make the judge aware that there's something hinky going on here: tons and tons of deceitful market manipulation done by bears ignored by the SEC, multiple examples which appear to be trading on inside information (the puts bought after Consumer Reports leaked to the press but before they published anything publicly, and IIRC there was another dramatic example some months ago), but the SEC jumps on a tweet with non-material information which doesn't move the stock price. This situation is something the judge is not aware of. Let's MAKE her aware of it.

(copied from other thread)

I bolded and underlined the part I'm having a bit of difficulty with. IANAL, and I don't have funds for any.

 

[JRP3]

He claimed he had funding lined up from the Saudis to take the company private. Turns out he didn’t and thus, didn’t go private.

He was speculating about going private and speculated that he had the funding to do so. Just because the Saudis might not have come through doesn't mean he doesn't have other sources. He's a billionaire with billionaire friends and acquaintances. He can get the funding anytime he wants it. Other reasons kept him from taking the company private.

 

[StealthP3D]

Anything that makes the SEC look more foolish is ok with me.

How could they look more foolish? They were handed Bernie Madoff on a silver platter and even though some low-level SEC investigators thought he wasn't even trading, at all, their "superiors" couldn't be bothered to look at his non-existent trading records. So the scam was allowed to continue for 9 more years.

Now they are harassing one of the modern eras greatest innovators, a man who is changing the world for the better. It makes no sense unless you assume the SEC works for the Saudi Royal Familly (or GM and Ford). That is the sad impression they are creating.

 

[gnuarm]

As long as a number he says is within the range of what's on the official transcript, he's covered. Honestly, no one (not even Elon) knows where things will fall between 350k and 500k. 400k is a nice conservative number, but the range is still 350k to 500k.

I don't agree. Saying 350k to 500k is not the same thing as saying 500k. If you can't see that there is no point in discussing this further.

At this point Trump^H^H^H^H^HMusk is a total idiot and egotist. He literally can't control himself. He has and will continue to cause trouble for himself and those around him by opening his big mouth when he should say nothing.

 

[commasign]

I don't agree. Saying 350k to 500k is not the same thing as saying 500k. If you can't see that there is no point in discussing this further.

At this point Trump^H^H^H^H^HMusk is a total idiot and egotist. He literally can't control himself. He has and will continue to cause trouble for himself and those around him by opening his big mouth when he should say nothing.

He wasn’t saying 500k as guidance. He was making a point that Tesla has gone from making no cars to making a lot of cars in less than a decade. I really don’t care about the robo-traders and algorithms or the people that rely on them to make money. Props to Elon for not caring either. #LongTSLA #TSLA6000

 

[gnuarm]

He wasn’t saying 500k as guidance. He was making a point that Tesla has gone from making no cars to making a lot of cars in less than a decade. I really don’t care about the robo-traders and algorithms or the people that rely on them to make money. Props to Elon for not caring either. #LongTSLA #TSLA6000

When you run a publicly traded stock you don't get to bandy about numbers like they are ashes off the tip of your cigar (or in Musk's case his blunt)! Every tweet a CEO posts is examined carefully and so should be considered carefully by the CEO before posting. Musk can't even be bothered to check his numbers before posting.

 

[commasign]

When you run a publicly traded stock you don't get to bandy about numbers like they are ashes off the tip of your cigar (or in Musk's case his blunt)! Every tweet a CEO posts is examined carefully and so should be considered carefully by the CEO before posting. Musk can't even be bothered to check his numbers before posting.

I’m guessing he’ll have zero punishment or at most a slap on the wrist.

 

[StealthP3D]

When you run a publicly traded stock you don't get to bandy about numbers like they are ashes off the tip of your cigar (or in Musk's case his blunt)! Every tweet a CEO posts is examined carefully and so should be considered carefully by the CEO before posting. Musk can't even be bothered to check his numbers before posting.

I wouldn't get my panties in a wad over what Elon Musk does or doesn't say. He's a big boy and something tells me the SEC is not. They had Bernie Madoff handed to them on a silver platter and they looked the other way for 9 years as people had their life savings swindled away by a man who wasn't even making trades (let alone making 100's of thousands of beautiful cars). They couldn't even be bothered to check Madoff's non-existent trading records when they were tipped off by Wall Street insiders!

But here they are harassing the most productive American industrialist of the 20th century who is hard at work to make the world a better place. I think they got tipped off by Investor's Business Daily. On the other hand, Madoff was too "upstanding" of a citizen, they couldn't even check his trading records when tipped off to the Ponzi scheme of the century. I don't think Musk is too worried about the corrupt and small-minded SEC. Idiots in suits.

We have the President of the United States lying to the American people on a daily basis, distorting reality as he tries to run the largest democracy on earth, nobody gives a ff. But the SEC wants to parse whether Elon Musks tweet about going from zero cars to half a million is material information? LOL! This is only a good thing if you work for the royal family of Saudi Arabia.

 

[Evoforce]

When you run a publicly traded stock you don't get to bandy about numbers like they are ashes off the tip of your cigar (or in Musk's case his blunt)! Every tweet a CEO posts is examined carefully and so should be considered carefully by the CEO before posting. Musk can't even be bothered to check his numbers before posting.

Sometimes it can be hard not to make a monkey of ourselves too with what we say...

 

[commasign]

“Analysts” can drive stocks up or down at will based on their own agenda, speculation, or lies. No doubt tipping off their largest investors before publishing major upgrades or downgrades. SEC does nothing. So I appreciate Elon cutting through all of that and communicating his thoughts in real time directly to us small time investors.

 

[JRP3]

Saying 350k to 500k is not the same thing as saying 500k.

And saying "around 500k" is not the same thing as saying "500k".

 

[Matt L]

And saying "around 500k" is not the same thing as saying "500k".

And both would be guidance different than previously provided...and in need of correction.