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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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The cost-basis rep insisted that there is no correlation between the quantity of options contracts vs. deductibility of equity sale loss. Even a single contract disqualifies any shares sales for loses if it take place within 30 days of opening the contract. 😩
Awe hell no. That's straight up, demonstratably, false!
IRS Publication 550
More or less stock bought than sold.

If the number of shares of substantially identical stock or securities you buy within 30 days before or after the sale is either more or less than the number of shares you sold, you must determine the particular shares to which the wash sale rules apply. You do this by matching the shares bought with an equal number of the shares sold. Match the shares bought in the same order that you bought them, beginning with the first shares bought. The shares or securities so matched are subject to the wash sale rules.

Example 1. You bought 100 shares of M stock on September 21, 2020, for $5,000. On December 14, 2020, you bought 50 shares of substantially identical stock for $2,750. On December 21, 2020, you bought 25 shares of substantially identical stock for $1,125. On January 4, 2021, you sold for $4,000 the 100 shares you bought in September. You have a $1,000 loss on the sale. However, because you bought 75 shares of substantially identical stock within 30 days before the sale, you cannot deduct the loss ($750) on 75 shares. You can deduct the loss ($250) on the other 25 shares. The basis of the 50 shares bought on December 14, 2020, is increased by two-thirds (50 ÷ 75) of the $750 disallowed loss. The new basis of those shares shares bought on December 21, 2020, is increased by the rest of the loss to $1,375 ($1,125 + $250).

Example 2. You bought 100 shares of M stock on September 17, 2020. On January 29, 2021, you sold those shares at a $1,000 loss. On each of the 4 days from February 2, 2021, to February 5, 2021, you bought 50 shares of substantially identical stock. You cannot deduct your $1,000 loss. You must add half the disallowed loss ($500) to the basis of the 50 shares bought on February 2. Add the other half ($500) to the basis of the shares bought on February 3.
 
Recovery is here boys n girls
Sad I had to liquidate all my shares
Happy that my order to buy the LEAPS went through yesterday st 3:40PM after I called since it was initially declined because of insufficient buying power from the automatic calculation from the brockerage. I’d be pretty pissed now if I had zero position in TSLA after sustaining the massive drop
……and your LEAPs would ordinarily move more than shares.
 
Something to consider for next week is that the "Street" is expecting around 420k - 430k deliveries.
The sad truth is that if we hit 431k we will probably dump. (IMO)

We will need to be on the plus side of 440k delivered to start a real rally going into earnings. I do think earnings are going to be great with what ever number over 400k delivered but the Street wants it's number.

I am out for next for the P&D - unless I decide Friday to do a small straddle position

GLTA, just trying to get my thoughts on it out there - finished converting shares to January 2025 leaps yesterday - all $200 strike

I'm either going down with the ship or going to the moon, no in between!
I think you’d be right if TSLA were to suddenly respond to financial fundamentals, but since it rarely does, especially recently, my guess is movement in the next month will be more related to buy:sell momentum.
 
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If my theory is right, I can get out of margin by converting half of my shares to a leap.

Say I convert 100 shares to a 100 jan 25 PUT.
That gives me 6000 cash at SP of 110 (5000 for the PUT contract).
Say at expiry the SP is 200, then the contract should be worth 100.
If I sell it, then I get 10 000, adding 6 000 cash is 16 000.
If I want the 100 shares back by then, I need to add 4 000, so that is a losing position.
If I execute the contract, I will have to add 4 000 as well to get the shares back at 100 (strike price of the contract).

My question: how do I win from this position?
1) By selling the contract earlier when SP moons before jan 25? Because more extrinsic then?
2) Obviously by selling CC against the leaps, but I can also do this against the shares? Reaching that 4000 shouldn’t be to difficult as only 40/week.
3) If SP goes down further, I can get the shares back cheaper as well. So SP of 60 would give me opportunity to buy back shares for the cash position of 6000.

You could say it’s not worth to convert, BUT, you’re not as prone to stock price tanking because you converted half to cash/leaps.
Is this about right?

Another thing to add: let’s see what SP does first before doing unnecessary things. I don’t have tax consequences so that’s a good thing.

I think the idea is to convert shares to LEAP long calls, not short puts. Puts give you the initial premium but will not capture share price increases, so the stock can run away from you.
 
:mad::mad::mad:

I was assigned 355 Put contracts with Jan 2025 Expiration, 330 strike. They had around $1 of extrinsic left. Don't know if that means the holder knew the SP was going to bounce and they were better off selling the shares at 330 (and take the loss on the time value) rather than wait for TSLA to go lower....

Same here

Just took assignment on 23 x 330 Jan25 puts

Hope this won’t be considered as buying back TSLA the day after I liquidate for tax harvesting
 
Awe hell no. That's straight up, demonstratably, false!
IRS Publication 550

I hope you’re right! It’s not too late for me then.

So to summarize based on your analysis I can sell today enough TSLA today to incur $100k loss and it won’t trigger a wash-sale even though I opened/closed option contracts within 30 days before (on 12/3)? (Obviously not-advice and I won’t blame you if that’s wrong, just double checking that I understand you correctly.)
 
Same here

Just took assignment on 23 x 330 Jan25 puts

Hope this won’t be considered as buying back TSLA the day after I liquidate for tax harvesting
Not sure how it works in other countries but yes this would normally trigger wash sale. You would need to close out this position and wait for 31 days to buy shares again. YMMV.
 
I hope you’re right! It’s not too late for me then.

So to summarize based on your analysis I can sell today enough TSLA today to incur $100k loss and it won’t trigger a wash-sale even though I opened/closed option contracts within 30 days before (on 12/3)? (Obviously not-advice and I won’t blame you if that’s wrong, just double checking that I understand you correctly.)
If that call is the only trade you have, worse case it washes 100 shares. If you sell 100 more than you need to, you *should* be good.
Note: capital losses can only offset $3k of normal income a year.
 
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I hope you’re right! It’s not too late for me then.

So to summarize based on your analysis I can sell today enough TSLA today to incur $100k loss and it won’t trigger a wash-sale even though I opened/closed option contracts within 30 days before (on 12/3)? (Obviously not-advice and I won’t blame you if that’s wrong, just double checking that I understand you correctly.)
It’s about what you do after the 30 days. So if you sell today you just have to make sure you are not entering a transaction for another 30 days or until Jan 31st 2023 for tax year 2022. Definitely read the wash rule and get a better understanding or talk to your CPA.
 
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I hope you’re right! It’s not too late for me then.

So to summarize based on your analysis I can sell today enough TSLA today to incur $100k loss and it won’t trigger a wash-sale even though I opened/closed option contracts within 30 days before (on 12/3)? (Obviously not-advice and I won’t blame you if that’s wrong, just double checking that I understand you correctly.)

The point of wash sales is to prevent people from gaming the tax system in December. It makes no sense that a single option contract could potentially affect an infinite number of shares and not just the 100 tied to the contract.

Honestly, it hasn’t even been definitively stated by the IRS that calls and shares are “substantially identical” in the first place.
 
Same here

Just took assignment on 23 x 330 Jan25 puts

Hope this won’t be considered as buying back TSLA the day after I liquidate for tax harvesting
Non-advice
I *think* it would.
If you are liquidated (all TSLA sold), you could also sell the newly assigned shares and carry over the additional loss. Or sell those and a quantity equal to all purchases in the last 30 days.
Be sure to coordinate lots with your broker.
 
Then to answer your question, you would profit by the stock hopefully being higher than 200 two years from now (or by selling earlier on a near-term rally). If TSLA is only at 200 in 2025, the LEAPS conversion would be a bad move.
But if Tesla trades at 250 by then, the leap would have a value of 150, selling it would give me 15 000, adding the 6 000 left of the sale of the 100 shares (11 000 - 5000 for the bought call), I would still have to add 4 000 to buy 100 shares again. If I do nothing, I keep my 100 shares and at 250 I’ll still have them at that value. Selling the leap earlier is another story.

Note: those 100 shares I could convert have a CB of 275. I think it’s important to note that.
 
But if Tesla trades at 250 by then, the leap would have a value of 150, selling it would give me 15 000, adding the 6 000 left of the sale of the 100 shares (11 000 - 5000 for the bought call), I would still have to add 4 000 to buy 100 shares again. If I do nothing, I keep my 100 shares and at 250 I’ll still have them at that value. Selling the leap earlier is another story.
You are trading risk for return (Delta).
In the call situation, you have less dollars in the market to get return on.
Shares are a delta of 1 with infinite expiration
Calls are a Delta <1 with a finite expiry

Jan 25 100 Call has a current (premarket) delta of .75 and price of $50.
Buying one has a lower leverage, buying 2 gives higher leverage than stock and still cost less.

Scenario TSLA Long Call (bullish) calculator
 
Something to consider for next week is that the "Street" is expecting around 420k - 430k deliveries.
The sad truth is that if we hit 431k we will probably dump. (IMO)

We will need to be on the plus side of 440k delivered to start a real rally going into earnings. I do think earnings are going to be great with what ever number over 400k delivered but the Street wants it's number.

I am out for next for the P&D - unless I decide Friday to do a small straddle position

GLTA, just trying to get my thoughts on it out there - finished converting shares to January 2025 leaps yesterday - all $200 strike

I'm either going down with the ship or going to the moon, no in between!
Stan Morgan said 399k estimate for Q4 Delivery in their note yesterday....