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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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All of our shenanigans to right the ship this week and the @accountants simple sell covered calls, sell shares some weeks and then sell puts the next week sounds pretty pleasant. Nothing risked except some upside and something like 2% or more premium week in and out.
That'd be The Wheel strategy, the original genesis of this thread :)

It sure does sound pleasant, but its not risk free income that also provides upside exposure (because who wouldn't buy all of that they could get their hands on!?!). If it were risk free then there is somebody with better funding and tools in the market that will have purchased all of it first.


The (or at least A) risk in The Wheel is that you lose money on the strike to strike slippage as you flip back and forth between puts and calls. As a for instance if you'd sold a 950 call for this week expiration and we finish with the shares at 1010, then you'd take assignment in The Wheel, collecting $95k plus the premium. Then you could sell the 1000 put for high aggression and get like $20 worth of premium. If the shares are below 1000 next week then you take assignment on that 1000 strike put. Let's say the shares are at 980 next week - you've sold at shares at 950 and repurchased at 1000. The premiums might have been good but in this example the first $50 of that premium is just paying for the strike to strike slippage.

When I ran the wheel awhile back to get some experience with it, I found that taking assignment on puts (buy shares) was just fine for me, emotionally. The angst though when I was assigned on the call (shares into cash), and selling puts to get back into shares, was not good. I made money on that round trip, and pretty decent money - something like the premiums and an extra $5 in the strike to strike change. That's a great outcome but the emotional side for the cash to shares (assignment on puts) was not something I wanted to be doing routinely.

The problem was that while I was in cash (out of shares), I was constantly thinking about the shares taking off on me. I'd get the put premium and that'd be nice, but if I collect a $20 put premium and the shares go up $110 in a day, then I'm not exactly thrilled with that outcome. It's a #firstworldproblem for real, but its still not fun; it can be hard to remind oneself that they just earned $20/share when they've watched the other shares go up $110 :)

The Wheel continues to be a backup position for me, though with me selling spreads these days, it doesn't really fit very well. It's a lot more sensible with cash secured puts and covered calls.


With the big swings in the share price plus things being 'frothy' here at $1000 give or take, an idea that's occurred to me for getting back into the market (I really want to be in - I just don't want all of that spread leverage) is to return using good old fashioned cash secured puts and covered calls (which would be leap cc for me).

On the cash secured put front, I won't be earning anywhere close to the weekly income, but I'll be setup to earn some weekly income, and I'll have really big levers ready to go to manage the position. Something I did earlier this year was to do a 4:1 conversion of cash secured puts into $200 wide put spreads. That got me a >$100 improvement in my short put strike, and left me a bunch in the tank for a 2:1 or even another 4:1 increase in the spreads, and another big improvement in the strike. And if that sort of aggressive management isn't needed, then I'll earn at least that little bit of income in the meanwhile.

It's at least an idea I'm kicking around. Since I'm getting a lower and lower share price by waiting I think that I'll continue waiting for the shares to fall below $1000.

Even if there's only $5k to be made that's still a pretty good result in most universes, and leaving myself with a LOT of headroom for management should that become necessary is appealing. I feel like I've got a solid floor underneath me, so selling puts isn't so bad. Even if that floor is more like 730 and I'm looking at selling 930 strike puts :)
 
Yet to catch up with the thread, but in the spirit of posting trades, I got myself into some juicy Jan 2024 short puts at 400 strike at slightly less than a 40 average.. I am viewing this as a replacement for my BPS position. These puts have gone up by 6 ish bucks this week from rising IVs, even as SP has gone up. I think once the volatility comes down these are worth probably 30-32 at most in a month. So 7 bucks for a month or 2 is better than doing BPS for very short time frame.

And the kicker is, you can pair these with something like 500 or so puts for December, and see that sweet *jump* in margin. At least in IB. Myself I am not buying these puts yet, but perhaps will do so.

Just trying to pick the right tool for the opportunity market presents.

Interesting. IBKR shows that this increases my margin requirements; I think because the long position has fewer DTE than the short position. Let me guess - you're on portfolio margin?
 
It always gets pulled back in.... :rolleyes:

IMG_0106.jpg
 
The SP is doing exactly what I expected, but I was chicken because I just couldn't afford to be wrong. :mad: $2M+ down the toilet for nothing, and the 900/850 BPS are potentially going to be a problem real soon.... F'ing awesome. 😭
Really appreciate you sharing the good and the bad, its really helpful to see what others are doing. Thanks, and thank you everyone for sharing.

I took a hot bath unloading my CC1050 and CC1100 10/29 (painful, ugh), loaded up on CC1300 11/05 when it looked like there was a turnaround. Also opened a few BPS 10/29 910/810...
 
Wow, so many trades. I see you could buy a Dec 400 put for .60 and cancel out your margin and if the IV does drop, as it should, thats about a 10 to 1 payout for 3 weeks with almost zero risk.
Its better to get higher strike puts as as hedge because if there is mean reversion, you want some hedge against it. I'd rather do it in larger size with something like a 600 strike put for November. Even consider a ratio like 2x1. that would be a good hedge because you can always take profits if we see a 100 point drop next week. and you can even realize the gains from long puts and roll the hedge down to 1x1. I think its unlikely we see 200 to 300 point drops, so I like the risk reward.

Interesting. IBKR shows that this increases my margin requirements; I think because the long position has fewer DTE than the short position. Let me guess - you're on portfolio margin?
Thats correct. Its not generally great for margin due to concentrated positions (effectively all TSLA), but lets me run with strategies like these without too much margin trouble. And I don't use that much traditional margin anyways.
 
It's at least an idea I'm kicking around. Since I'm getting a lower and lower share price by waiting I think that I'll continue waiting for the shares to fall below $1000.
Or I'll wait around a bit and watch the shares move back up into green territory.

Even though I got here through luck (out of the market / no short puts or calls), I continue to find it acceptable to be out of the market. I can earn a good income at any share price - I just need that feeling for available highs and lows in the short term, and between the "frothy" share price, my inability spot a strong resistance level, as well as a reasonably nearby support level (my strong supports are down in the 700s - so much higher than 800 or 850 feels like stretch to me), I'm feeling the need to watch and wait for support and resistance to become better defined.
 
Or I'll wait around a bit and watch the shares move back up into green territory.

Even though I got here through luck (out of the market / no short puts or calls), I continue to find it acceptable to be out of the market. I can earn a good income at any share price - I just need that feeling for available highs and lows in the short term, and between the "frothy" share price, my inability spot a strong resistance level, as well as a reasonably nearby support level (my strong supports are down in the 700s - so much higher than 800 or 850 feels like stretch to me), I'm feeling the need to watch and wait for support and resistance to become better defined.
When the SP was around 600 a few months ago, I was selling Puts like crazy, because I thought we had a solid floor, and I avoided selling calls. Now, my focus will be selling BCS, but with a very safe margin in case we get a stock split or other major announcement, and will avoid BPS unless I can have a really wide margin there as well in case we get another February drop (but hopefully the improved fundamentals will limit the drop this time).
 
Its better to get higher strike puts as as hedge because if there is mean reversion, you want some hedge against it. I'd rather do it in larger size with something like a 600 strike put for November. Even consider a ratio like 2x1. that would be a good hedge because you can always take profits if we see a 100 point drop next week. and you can even realize the gains from long puts and roll the hedge down to 1x1. I think its unlikely we see 200 to 300 point drops, so I like the risk reward.


Thats correct. Its not generally great for margin due to concentrated positions (effectively all TSLA), but lets me run with strategies like these without too much margin trouble. And I don't use that much traditional margin anyways.

I sold 10 of these all above (EDIT: midpoint, not ask) and got instantaneous fills. Kinda nice.
 
When the SP was around 600 a few months ago, I was selling Puts like crazy, because I thought we had a solid floor, and I avoided selling calls. Now, my focus will be selling BCS, but with a very safe margin in case we get a stock split or other major announcement, and will avoid BPS unless I can have a really wide margin there as well in case we get another February drop (but hopefully the improved fundamentals will limit the drop this time).

With regard to drops, I'll be wary as we approach December. (Debt ceiling / govt funding extension expires early December - though I'm unclear if Treasury can extend longer with extraordinary measures past the 12/3 date)
 
When the SP was around 600 a few months ago, I was selling Puts like crazy, because I thought we had a solid floor, and I avoided selling calls. Now, my focus will be selling BCS, but with a very safe margin in case we get a stock split or other major announcement, and will avoid BPS unless I can have a really wide margin there as well in case we get another February drop (but hopefully the improved fundamentals will limit the drop this time).
This is what I'm thinking at this moment, but I'll need more than a few days to spot a strong resistance level above the current share price. With the fairly high share price, covered calls and call spreads are looking like they might become the primary bread winner (emphasis on "might" and "become", as in future tense rather than present tense :D)

I'm leery of just how far we can drop - I got into a deeply ITM position on puts back in Feb when I chased a big move up too closely. But I do like keeping the income trickling in via 'safe' short puts with no leverage (cash secured, or maybe margin backed, short puts - no leverage via put spreads).
 
hertz BCS problem fixed with net zero $ loss

history and sequence
- opened IC x370 10/29 +p750/-p800/-c1000/+c1050
- hertz drama started :mad:
- rolled 10/29 +p750/-p800 to +p800/-p850 (credit to maximize the winning side)
- rolled 10/29 -c1000/+c1050 to 11/5 -c1020/+c1070 (zero credit but strike improved)
- opened 10/29 -c1100/+c1150 (credit)
- start of day 2; decided to shut down and remove all 10/29
- rolled 10/29 +p800/-p850 to 11/5 (credit and 20% away)
- rolled 10/29 -c1100/+c1150 to 11/5 (credit and 10% away)
- opened more 11/5 +p800/-p850 (credit and 20% away)
- opened 11/5 -c1300/+c1350 (credit and 30% away)
- closed 11/5 -c1020/+c1070 (zero out)

notes
- everything is Market Order; now is not the time to be cheap
- this rescue is all hands on deck, with all positions helping out to prevent portfolio blowing up
- although there is no actual $$$ lost, the real loss is zero income for this week; there's 3 days to catch up (or just do nothing while recovering from trauma 😵‍💫)
Question: did you have to utilize extra margin for this? Or were you able to pull this off with margin staying the same?
 
After a disastrous-20K yesterday from buying back Oct 29 970 calls I made a good recovery today.

Sold 14X Nov 05 1250 calls for an average price of 13$ and 10X Oct 29 1159 calls for 8$. Both positions are up at least 50%. I have no plans to close these positions. They were very red in the morning but my option flow analysis told me sentiment was going bearish so held on.

Also 10X BPS Nov 5 880/779 for 4.50 on the dip.
 
The SP is doing exactly what I expected, but I was chicken because I just couldn't afford to be wrong. :mad: $2M+ down the toilet for nothing, and the 900/850 BPS are potentially going to be a problem real soon.... F'ing awesome. 😭
2M as in Roman numeral M meaning thousand or 2 M ( which would be 2MM in Roman numerals) with M standing for million?
I hope it's the former
 
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Gary Black is one of us:

From his Twitter today:
"Rather than selling shares, long term $TSLA shareholders can sell calls against their TSLA positions (“covered calls”) to generate extra income. This morning, we sold 1250 strike TSLA calls (+21%) expiring this Friday for $3/option. They’re now worth 1/2 that."

that's hilarious - i did exactly the same thing with the 1250's. went straight cc's vs retrying the BCS.
 
The SP is doing exactly what I expected, but I was chicken because I just couldn't afford to be wrong. :mad: $2M+ down the toilet for nothing, and the 900/850 BPS are potentially going to be a problem real soon.... F'ing awesome. 😭

At least with BPS I feel like I can roll them and have confidence that stock will back up eventually. I screw up really bad this week, it will take me months to recover since I am planning on being more conservative now. At least I am still making money for the year.
 
I'm at investing 101 level; I'll research that.
Let's say the stock is trading at 1017 and you think it will drop . You want to own the stock but not that that level so you could wait for it to drop, put a buy order in at say 1000 where you want to buy it or you could sell a put.
One example of a strategy ( there are many you could do) would be to sell a put for 11/5 with a strike of 1010 @ around $34.
If the stock drops to 1010 by expiration you'd end up getting assigned where you would then own the stock at $976 ( $1010-$34) .
If the stock never drops you'd get to pocket the $34 premium.
This is just one example. Read up on buying stock through selling puts for the pros and cons
 
Let's say the stock is trading at 1017 and you think it will drop . You want to own the stock but not that that level so you could wait for it to drop, put a buy order in at say 1000 where you want to buy it or you could sell a put.
One example of a strategy ( there are many you could do) would be to sell a put for 11/5 with a strike of 1010 @ around $34.
If the stock drops to 1010 by expiration you'd end up getting assigned where you would then own the stock at $976 ( $1010-$34) .
If the stock never drops you'd get to pocket the $34 premium.
This is just one example. Read up on buying stock through selling puts for the pros and cons
Thank you.
 
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I also offloaded the remaining 20x of my Jan 24 c600's - somewhat by mistake having left a limit sell then got distracted... still took €460k profit (80%) on this in three weeks, so can't complain much

However, I'd be amazed if we don't some heavy selling at some point this week, will look to re-enter with some positions

All in cash ($3.1) for my one account right now
You don’t think that drop from 1095 to 1001 wasn’t substantial? For me that was the big drop. I think we stay above 1000$ this week.