BrownOuttaSpec
Active Member
Same for me. except rolled to Nov for a super tiny credit. I needed a break anyway, I was losing some sleep over it.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House
- Thread starter adiggs
- Start date
I recognize this isn't everyones situation here, but just looking for thoughts. I am easy compared to the underwater BPS crew. I have some 2/4 940's and 2/11 950's puts. What is the advice, not advice? I think my margin is good all the way down to a SP of 700.
0) Keep doing nothing for now (what I will likely be doing) until we get near margin issues
1) Keep rolling week by week for same strike as long as we dont dip further collecting premium waiting for a bounce
2) Roll down and out to where the SP is ATM? July for 825 puts currently
3) Roll to Jan 2024 and close out 2/3 of the contracts with the premium, leaving me with 1/3 to deal with and a much fatter margin buffer. Now I can free up and sell more puts in this current environment?
0) Keep doing nothing for now (what I will likely be doing) until we get near margin issues
1) Keep rolling week by week for same strike as long as we dont dip further collecting premium waiting for a bounce
2) Roll down and out to where the SP is ATM? July for 825 puts currently
3) Roll to Jan 2024 and close out 2/3 of the contracts with the premium, leaving me with 1/3 to deal with and a much fatter margin buffer. Now I can free up and sell more puts in this current environment?
LightngMcQueen
Aspirationally Rational
I had similar doubts - my indecisive approach is 1/3rd weekly roll, 1/3 monthly roll, 1/3 sold at DITM Jan 2023 PUTs (sold those just before xmas).
FWIW I got in trouble with naked PUTs because when I got hit with margin call I was not able to buy protective PUTs before exiting from margin first (catch 22). So now everything is wide spread. Bought 500-600 Puts for shorter term and 200 PUTs for Jan 2023 .. will roll those up to 400 when IV drops.
Of course ... as soon as I got myself liquid I felt I needed to do something about it. I bought some:
2024 Call Spreads +900/-2400 .. at around 190 ea.
With break even at SP ~1100 in 2024 and max return >7X (19k->150k) I do not think I loose too much on both the downside and the upside.
IMO Short Call is very important because cushions big chunk of IV. Last Spring I've made a mistake of buying LEAPs on SP drops only to have portion of my leverage eaten away by inevitable IV crush when market returned to more normal conditions.
Last edited:
I hope everyone is OK - overall. I know a lot of us are under water right now and it's a pretty painful thought to bear.
My 2/4 -900/+700 BPS is solidly ITM - however with a good week to go I'm hoping we see >900 again next week to allow me to get out of jail free. Otherwise it's another roll out (and hopefully down). Will be roll #3 for this BPS ...
I'm all out of dry powder too, otherwise I'd be buying here. But I want to preserve margin right now in case I have to do the dirty with the BPS next week.
I'm seriously looking forward to a change - this is affecting my sleep. I'm glad the uptick rule triggered (although it will not really affect them), and that it's the weekend coming. Hopefully the market will digest the actual stellar ER and outlook and trigger a buying frenzy quickly.
My 2/4 -900/+700 BPS is solidly ITM - however with a good week to go I'm hoping we see >900 again next week to allow me to get out of jail free. Otherwise it's another roll out (and hopefully down). Will be roll #3 for this BPS ...
I'm all out of dry powder too, otherwise I'd be buying here. But I want to preserve margin right now in case I have to do the dirty with the BPS next week.
I'm seriously looking forward to a change - this is affecting my sleep. I'm glad the uptick rule triggered (although it will not really affect them), and that it's the weekend coming. Hopefully the market will digest the actual stellar ER and outlook and trigger a buying frenzy quickly.
The way I remember things - anytime we see the Uptick Rule get triggered for TSLA the next day is pretty positive. Its almost like there are a bunch of short sellers (or a small number of well funded short sellers) that use standard short selling market rules to push the share price down. Take away their toy from a big down day, and buyers show up.
After hours "they" came real close to where you thought.
corduroy
Active Member
I have -810/710s for tomorrow that I opened at 22% OTM. I can't believe these are being tested, but here we are. Hopefully sanity returns tomorrow.
Currently holding:
1/28
-810/710 (largest position)
-800/700
-730/670
2/4
-875/780 (rolled from a -900/800 I dare you this week, yep they dared me)
-770/670
-760/660
-690/590
Also a bunch of NVDA ICs that I got in trouble with this week and had to roll out the BPS side to 2/25.
Currently holding:
1/28
-810/710 (largest position)
-800/700
-730/670
2/4
-875/780 (rolled from a -900/800 I dare you this week, yep they dared me)
-770/670
-760/660
-690/590
Also a bunch of NVDA ICs that I got in trouble with this week and had to roll out the BPS side to 2/25.
Zhelko Dimic
Careful bull
My portfolio is still locked at TD. As Tesla was falling I had to keep selling other assets and keep pulling money from RRSP to stay out of margin. Now I'll have to wait for everything to settle.
But it's good to know that I can count on Elon to snap a loss from the jaw of victory. I may still be able to buy back my position cheaply once I'm let go.
BTW @tivoboy answered me offline before earnings call, and he killed it...
I still have a few bps opened, worst one is -1100/+800 for 02/04. Fortunately only 4 contracts.
Gonna keep rolling that if needed.. and I think after I get out of these spreads I'm gonna just keep selling naked puts and covered calls. Or some ridiculously superwide spreads, like 500 wide.
Gonna keep rolling that if needed.. and I think after I get out of these spreads I'm gonna just keep selling naked puts and covered calls. Or some ridiculously superwide spreads, like 500 wide.
mickificki
Member
Not sure how many here follow Puru Saxena but he was spot on with this downturn. He did a video with our own @DaveT two months ago where he called it.
Anyhow Puru is calling for another 10-15% dip in the indices.
Anyhow Puru is calling for another 10-15% dip in the indices.
mickificki
Member
Just finished my day at work, looked at the stock price while trading in my Model Y with steering problem for a Herz Nissan Rogue rental. It felt like the world collapsed around me. Had 10% margin left and tomorrow will be margin called like never. Please share your thoughts on how to optimize my margin situation. Already got ChefBoyardee tip n tricks and that was my order of thought, let me know if you’d change the order or do something different.
I have 10x 18/2/2022 -p925 with 325k margin impairment
10x 18/3/2022 -p930 with 365k margin impairment
5x 14/04/2022 -p1000 with 220k margin impairment
10x 20/01/2023 -p1500 with 950k margin impairment
1x 11/2/2022 -p910 with 25k margin impairment.
With the last week my free margin went from 1M to 200k, not even 10% left from the 50% I had 2 weeks ago. With the drop from today I will be in margin call tomorrow, probably around 500k
On 10/1/2022, I filled the transfer form and I am transferring 500k in stock from another account to increase my margin power. I have some 70k cash in personnal accounts that was intended to buy kid investments REEE.
I closed My CCs today that were +85% 24x 4/2/2022 1285CCs. Could sell new agressive CCs to improve margin. Bought 3 x LEAPs expiring 2024. 500,1000 and 1400 strikes.
My next steps were
1) Transfer 500k of equity to my trading account for margin power, the process is ongoing and the funds should arrive beginning of next week.
2) Transfer 70k of free cash from personal account to business trading account
3) Buy a 20/1/2023 p1000 to convert into a BPS LEAP and forget about any profit that could have been made with that option but free another 500k of margin
Or close it at a 200k loss already and use that 950k margin to do 30% OTM weeklies and build back slowly over time.
4)Sell an agressive CC in the 900s against all my shares
5) close all my positions and buy LEAPS?
Let me know if something else could be done or a better order of proceeding.
My thoughts are with all the one with BPS drawning to oblivion. These are difficult times.
I have 10x 18/2/2022 -p925 with 325k margin impairment
10x 18/3/2022 -p930 with 365k margin impairment
5x 14/04/2022 -p1000 with 220k margin impairment
10x 20/01/2023 -p1500 with 950k margin impairment
1x 11/2/2022 -p910 with 25k margin impairment.
With the last week my free margin went from 1M to 200k, not even 10% left from the 50% I had 2 weeks ago. With the drop from today I will be in margin call tomorrow, probably around 500k
On 10/1/2022, I filled the transfer form and I am transferring 500k in stock from another account to increase my margin power. I have some 70k cash in personnal accounts that was intended to buy kid investments REEE.
I closed My CCs today that were +85% 24x 4/2/2022 1285CCs. Could sell new agressive CCs to improve margin. Bought 3 x LEAPs expiring 2024. 500,1000 and 1400 strikes.
My next steps were
1) Transfer 500k of equity to my trading account for margin power, the process is ongoing and the funds should arrive beginning of next week.
2) Transfer 70k of free cash from personal account to business trading account
3) Buy a 20/1/2023 p1000 to convert into a BPS LEAP and forget about any profit that could have been made with that option but free another 500k of margin
Or close it at a 200k loss already and use that 950k margin to do 30% OTM weeklies and build back slowly over time.
4)Sell an agressive CC in the 900s against all my shares
5) close all my positions and buy LEAPS?
Let me know if something else could be done or a better order of proceeding.
My thoughts are with all the one with BPS drawning to oblivion. These are difficult times.
I have 900/800 BPS that were originally for 1/21 and 1/28 and rolled a couple times now and currently at 2/11 and 3/11 all for credit.
Today's 3/11 roll was early enough at SP 898 that I got it at $8 credit but dove to $2-3 as SP kept going down.
2/11 hopefully gets saved by a delayed ER jump that we all need.
As for "easy" money I opened yesterday 800/700P for 1/28, I'll be sweating pre-market tomorrow.
In my IRA, I sold 30 shares to buy a Jan 2024 1000C for 259.
Today's 3/11 roll was early enough at SP 898 that I got it at $8 credit but dove to $2-3 as SP kept going down.
2/11 hopefully gets saved by a delayed ER jump that we all need.
As for "easy" money I opened yesterday 800/700P for 1/28, I'll be sweating pre-market tomorrow.
In my IRA, I sold 30 shares to buy a Jan 2024 1000C for 259.
You are correct. I went back and looked at the charts and here is what I found. Excluding the covid crash(Mar 12, Mar 16, Mar 18) On average we were up 5.58% on the next trading day.
| Date | % Down | Next Trading Day |
| Nov 9th 2021 | 12%-Elon Sale | +4.34% |
| 08 Sep 2020 | 21% | +11% |
| 23 Sep 2020 | 10.34% | +2% |
| 01 May 2020 | 10.30% | +8.54% |
| 18 Mar 2020 | 16% | +18% |
| 16 Mar 2020 | 18.5% | -3.34% |
| 12 Mar 2020 | 11.62% | -2.49% |
| 05 Feb 2020 | 17% | +2.1% |
Well luckily most of my cash backed spreads are well out into Jan 23 so not stress there, though it doesn't feel good being $300k in the hole.
I have 8 Jan 28 500/900 BPS which are definitely underwater, I am waiting until tomorrow to close out / roll as I am hoping for a little bounce. I am not sure what I will roll out to, but I am thinking medium term like 3 months ago.
I do have one contract of Jan 28 830/920 that is in bad shape. I think at 67% loss right now. But not that much cash.
All in all, definitely some pain in losses, but I feel also an opportunity to open up some new positions maybe longer term for good premium considering the price point. How much lower could we go and stay?
I have 8 Jan 28 500/900 BPS which are definitely underwater, I am waiting until tomorrow to close out / roll as I am hoping for a little bounce. I am not sure what I will roll out to, but I am thinking medium term like 3 months ago.
I do have one contract of Jan 28 830/920 that is in bad shape. I think at 67% loss right now. But not that much cash.
All in all, definitely some pain in losses, but I feel also an opportunity to open up some new positions maybe longer term for good premium considering the price point. How much lower could we go and stay?
Top three, I think you are at risk and should think about that. Unless you have the capital and time and want more TSLA stock.
Just rolling out. Rolling down is virtually impossible when a position is so far ITM. I could have gone down from 1030 to 1020 without debit. That’s a waste.
I prefer accumulating premium by just rolling out, even if the position is deep under water. It will recover, maybe next week, maybe next month, maybe next autumn (if macros stay bad for a longer time). But I’m convinced it will go back up above my strike and the earnings report only reinforced that feeling. I don’t mind collecting extra premium every week or two weeks (132k so far since 1/1), even if the position is deep red and I’m looking at a big paper loss. The account can take it, so I will not take that loss.
(At the end of December I did decide to reduce my position by 25%, to be less exposed, as I didn’t trust macros. After the P&D report I thought I made a mistake, but now I’m glad I did it.)
Friends, what a roller coaster this month has been. I started the month up $40k but, after a tumultuous few weeks and after finally having to take some lumps on a 1050/950 BPS this morning, I finish the month up $1k. Like many of us here, I was so confident in Tesla’s execution and the markets interpretation of their execution that I did not foresee us being under $1200 after ER (let alone back to $8xx). I realize now that I was trading in a vacuum without fully considering the macro picture. I think many of us will reflect on this time and think about all of the “signs” that indicated a massive correction would hit the major indices (like all of the snake oil being pedaled in the crypto space, Nadella selling, Elon selling, Chamath selling, inflation, persistent supply chain issues, Tivoboy’s trip back from the future, etc…). I managed to ignore most of the signs by holding strong to my conviction that the market would have no choice but to see what we see in Tesla. A sustainable energy giant growing at 50%/yr with enviable margins and a few newly minted giga cash presses. I mean, if real interest rates are negative and inflation is at 7%, where else would one put their money? Sadly, the massive turn around we were all expecting has not materialized yet and once again I am reminded that the goal is not to simply know the rules of the game but to make the rules of the game. To be the house. @Yoona put it nicely up thread but I was definitely more of the gambler and less of the house this month. Lesson learned.
In any case, I managed to survive the month relatively unscathed but battle hardened. (I have some bald spots on my beard that need tending to but no worse for the wear). Funny enough, my reptile brain was tempted to open additional positions today to start to make up for this crappy month, but when that thought reached my cortex it was promptly shut down (it was definitely that and not my wife screaming at me to shutdown my computer). At this point, I think I’m going to take a break for a week and reevaluate my strategy going into next month to ensure consistent success. Thanks again to everyone for being so willing to share their experiences and for providing their insights; you saved this noob a lot of heartache.
Btw, did anyone else hear that Tesla may have supply chain issues this year? (@BornToFly you called it buddy; Elon usually gets a pass from me for his overall brilliance but IMO he was a net negative on the call and it left me wondering how it would’ve gone had he just left it to Zach and company to handle it). C’est la vie.
TL; DR: The market is rife with idiots and I’m starting to think I may be one of them. The house always wins. Be the house.
In any case, I managed to survive the month relatively unscathed but battle hardened. (I have some bald spots on my beard that need tending to but no worse for the wear). Funny enough, my reptile brain was tempted to open additional positions today to start to make up for this crappy month, but when that thought reached my cortex it was promptly shut down (it was definitely that and not my wife screaming at me to shutdown my computer). At this point, I think I’m going to take a break for a week and reevaluate my strategy going into next month to ensure consistent success. Thanks again to everyone for being so willing to share their experiences and for providing their insights; you saved this noob a lot of heartache.
Btw, did anyone else hear that Tesla may have supply chain issues this year? (@BornToFly you called it buddy; Elon usually gets a pass from me for his overall brilliance but IMO he was a net negative on the call and it left me wondering how it would’ve gone had he just left it to Zach and company to handle it). C’est la vie.
TL; DR: The market is rife with idiots and I’m starting to think I may be one of them. The house always wins. Be the house.
Zhelko Dimic
Careful bull
I empathize with many here.
I've been in a similar, probably much worse situation, my portfolio being almost wiped out.
Yet, as I was reading this thread, which was very informative, I felt uncomfortable, something wasn't right.
Unfortunately, I wasn't smart enough to articulate an argument for being careful, that would sound convincing even to me.
Candidly, events like this are why one should be careful. Impossible scenarios play out, more often than it seem possible. Both up and down.
"How would I feel if impossible* happened?" is what I often ask myself when considering trade - it's helped me stay kinda careful last few years. Yeah, I'm leveraged right now, but in no way that is dangerous. TBH, I want more TSLA.
* When we were 1150-1200, going into Q4 CC, impossible test for me looked like SP=$760, something that I never thought could happen in this timeframe (shrug). And I made sure that I can hold trough $760...
I've been in a similar, probably much worse situation, my portfolio being almost wiped out.
Yet, as I was reading this thread, which was very informative, I felt uncomfortable, something wasn't right.
Unfortunately, I wasn't smart enough to articulate an argument for being careful, that would sound convincing even to me.
Candidly, events like this are why one should be careful. Impossible scenarios play out, more often than it seem possible. Both up and down.
"How would I feel if impossible* happened?" is what I often ask myself when considering trade - it's helped me stay kinda careful last few years. Yeah, I'm leveraged right now, but in no way that is dangerous. TBH, I want more TSLA.
* When we were 1150-1200, going into Q4 CC, impossible test for me looked like SP=$760, something that I never thought could happen in this timeframe (shrug). And I made sure that I can hold trough $760...
Similar threads
