Looking at your short strikes, wondering if any are straight puts. If for instance the 10x 925 is a short put, you could move it to a 2x 1250 and be cash neutral and generate margin. I did something similar today.
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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House
- Thread starter adiggs
- Start date
I totally agree and thanks for the honesty. It's just a matter of timing until TSLA gets back to it's winning ways given it's bright future.
Premium selling provides lots of opportunity but being the house can also lead to the house of pain. It's all hindsight but sometimes it's best to fold 'em versus roll 'em. A good rule of thump is to never love a stock, a trade, or just use one trading strategy.
Funny how we can convince ourselves we know an outcome. It might be a trader boundary violation to be a fan of a company and then try to trade that company's stock. Some prop firms say the best traders are those that literally know nothing - no market experience, no preconceived notions of trading, or awareness of stock market news. It's counter intuitive but that's the illogical human psyche.
Interesting, that’s something I did not think of. Thanks.
Thanks for sharing. It’s definitely been a month for the ages.
All said and done I’ll end being down about 100K(realized and does not have any rolls) this month unless we get a nice Green Day. This is probably about 2 months of my average monthly gains so will recover but I’m not going to chase. I was feeling down at the end of the day but like they say no pain no gain. I did de-risk both our IRA accounts and moved mostly to cash yesterday so that definitely helped reduce the pain by at least 50K. Plan is to aggressively sell puts in the IRAs going forward and some bull call spreads.
After this month I doubt anybody will question if TSLA option market will dry up. I’m feeling positive especially after going on a nice drive in my Tesla this evening.
Does your broker allow you to an uneven roll? As in rolling the 10X to 2X or would that be two separate orders instead of one order/two transactions?
I don’t think I can do this on IB. I might have to look into this.
I do this on IB.
Now I have to confess, I don't know how to setup the ticket on TWS. I always used the app and started using TWS full-time only couple of months ago and didn't explore the full functionality. In a pinch today, I placed the order from my mobile.
I could do something similar with the 10 x -p1500 20/1/2023 to 5x -p2250 19/1/2024
Free half of my margin. I used to think TSLA would be $3000 by 2023. Now I am worried it will be $300. Times change so fast.
I would love to know how to do this in IBKR. I have some -950/+800 expiring tomorrow that I have to deal with . One thought was to roll to half as many but twice the width and reset the midpoint. I don't have the margin room to just close them all and reopen new ones. I spent a bunch of time in TWS rollover tool trying to figure it out but can't see how to do it. I don't really use the app for trades, just to check balances and positions. Maybe I'll have a poke around.
Runarbt
Active Member
You need to do something asap.. I got assigned on Wednesday for some ITM puts which I was planning to roll..
Do not wait until expiry day!
What was the strike of the puts that got assigned? It’s strange this happened on Wednesday, before earnings. Even puts for 1/28 that were deep ITM had quite some extrinsic value left (for instance almost $15 on puts that were 100 points ITM). Anyone exercising those puts could have made more money selling their puts and shares on the open market.
Got a margin warning from IBKR this morning.
Related to 15x 4/2 -900/+700
Anyone with experience at IBKR (@Drezil - do you still trade on IBKR here in Europe?) here able to offer some not-advice on how IBKR acts with 1 week from expiry? Prefer the expert's opinion here, before calling them.
Also, non-advice appreciated on ideas to fix this, I'm thinking:
1. roll out as far as possible for min. credit on open of trading, keeping 900/700
2. roll out really safe to -700/+500 as far as required, even for a debit?
3. how does buying shitput work in relation to BPS @ iBKR? Also, at what strike should the shot-put be?
Thanks, and apologies for asking here things that might be hidden in the great archive of knowledge that is this thread.
Pretty stressed out. Never had a margin call before.
Related to 15x 4/2 -900/+700
Anyone with experience at IBKR (@Drezil - do you still trade on IBKR here in Europe?) here able to offer some not-advice on how IBKR acts with 1 week from expiry? Prefer the expert's opinion here, before calling them.
Also, non-advice appreciated on ideas to fix this, I'm thinking:
1. roll out as far as possible for min. credit on open of trading, keeping 900/700
2. roll out really safe to -700/+500 as far as required, even for a debit?
3. how does buying shitput work in relation to BPS @ iBKR? Also, at what strike should the shot-put be?
Thanks, and apologies for asking here things that might be hidden in the great archive of knowledge that is this thread.
Pretty stressed out. Never had a margin call before.
Runarbt
Active Member
It wasnt $tsla - but $rblx $100 puts - just wanted to point out that ITM puts might be assigned early.
Shitputs work wonders. I've bought 10% OTM and they freed up a decent of maintenance margin. The only prob is you are essentially then just paying money to hope the margin call goes away when the stock goes back up. If we keep going down it's going to hurt a lot more.
Use Optiontrader. You'll have to set up each leg manually there, but you can do pretty much anything you like.
as long as it's just a warning, you don't _have_ to do anything.. although advisable to do something.
IBKR will not issue a margin call per se, instead they may liquidate something from your portfolio if maintenance margin goes negative.. and it seems to be pretty random what they do.
You are right - it's just a warning. In fact in the warning they specifically state that they do not issue margin calls, they simply liquidate automatically.
Do you know if - in my scenario with 15 contracts - they would liquidate only enough contracts to make me margin compliant, or do they liquidate the whole position?
Sorry to be dense, would you expand on this? Is there a IBKR TWS tool that let's me calculate what shitputs I should consider?
Only what they deem necessary. I've had then liquidate eg one contract of 10.
but it's some algo that does it, so it could really do anything.
I think there's a way to specify "liquidate last" on some positions, but I haven't realiy looked at it.
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Difficult to post this. Sharing here so that hopefully I can get some "not advice" from the experienced traders, and that someone can learn from my mistakes. I had a lot of hubris for growing an account from 60k to nearly 600k over the span of 6 months, but I made a serious mistake by going all-in on Jan 28th positions (when we peaked around P&D report Jan 3rd), and falsely thinking that TSLA could withstand the headwind of a Bear Market. In hindsight going all in on anything was just a poor decision on my part.
I'm down 90% total in my trading account from the pop on Jan 3rd. Trying to salvage something so that I don't take max loss today, which means I need to have orders in at open to reduce the chance of early assignment. Any "not advice" would be greatly appreciated.
Cash in the account is low, but I can increase this by selling off the 100 shares of TSLA and 200 shares of AMD. That should give me enough maneuvering room (I hope). Currently I am planning on doing that, probably before the market opens.
Positions expiring 1/28:
1) BPS 950/1000 - going to try to roll these all the way out to Jan 24 at 1400/1450. Eyeing a debit on these of $5 each, but the spread is very wide. (-13.2 to +23.9 as of this post)
2) BPS 925/975 - going to try to roll these all the way out to Jan 24 at 1400/1450 as well, and also eyeing a debit on these of $5 each. Spread currently -13.7 to +23.9.
3) BPS 900/950 - going for same roll, Jan 24 at 1400/1450, debit of $4. Spread currently -13.7 to +22.45.
4) BPS 780/830 - going to sit on these for now, it's a relatively small number and hoping that they expire worthless.
Also have some 950/1000 exp 2/4, but can't deal with those today unless I get out of this mess successfully.
Specific questions:
A) The debits above are approximately the mid-point of the spreads. Would you consider aiming for closer to Net Bid at open, and hope you get lucky, or take what you can get?
B) I'm rolling all the way to Jan 24 in order to hopefully "get past" the Bear Market we are in (and which I fear will get worse before better). If things improve before then, I would exit the positions early (although I know Theta decays very very slowly this far out). Is this appropriate thinking, or should I be looking at a closer in date?
C) I'm maintaining the 50 pts wide spreads simply because they are giving me the most optimal use of capital at this point. Is that a mistake?
D) I chose the 1400/1450 spreads because it was the best balance, in my mind, of getting past the Bear Market and a "reasonable" projection of what TSLA share price would be within 6 months or less of expiration for these puts. Is that logical?
E) Is planning on sitting on the 780/830 BPS today a bad idea? I'm really concerned about further drop next week, and want to exit this position but not take a loss.
I'm down 90% total in my trading account from the pop on Jan 3rd. Trying to salvage something so that I don't take max loss today, which means I need to have orders in at open to reduce the chance of early assignment. Any "not advice" would be greatly appreciated.
Cash in the account is low, but I can increase this by selling off the 100 shares of TSLA and 200 shares of AMD. That should give me enough maneuvering room (I hope). Currently I am planning on doing that, probably before the market opens.
Positions expiring 1/28:
1) BPS 950/1000 - going to try to roll these all the way out to Jan 24 at 1400/1450. Eyeing a debit on these of $5 each, but the spread is very wide. (-13.2 to +23.9 as of this post)
2) BPS 925/975 - going to try to roll these all the way out to Jan 24 at 1400/1450 as well, and also eyeing a debit on these of $5 each. Spread currently -13.7 to +23.9.
3) BPS 900/950 - going for same roll, Jan 24 at 1400/1450, debit of $4. Spread currently -13.7 to +22.45.
4) BPS 780/830 - going to sit on these for now, it's a relatively small number and hoping that they expire worthless.
Also have some 950/1000 exp 2/4, but can't deal with those today unless I get out of this mess successfully.
Specific questions:
A) The debits above are approximately the mid-point of the spreads. Would you consider aiming for closer to Net Bid at open, and hope you get lucky, or take what you can get?
B) I'm rolling all the way to Jan 24 in order to hopefully "get past" the Bear Market we are in (and which I fear will get worse before better). If things improve before then, I would exit the positions early (although I know Theta decays very very slowly this far out). Is this appropriate thinking, or should I be looking at a closer in date?
C) I'm maintaining the 50 pts wide spreads simply because they are giving me the most optimal use of capital at this point. Is that a mistake?
D) I chose the 1400/1450 spreads because it was the best balance, in my mind, of getting past the Bear Market and a "reasonable" projection of what TSLA share price would be within 6 months or less of expiration for these puts. Is that logical?
E) Is planning on sitting on the 780/830 BPS today a bad idea? I'm really concerned about further drop next week, and want to exit this position but not take a loss.
Sorry I've never actually had the need to alleviate maintenance margin so I am unaware of a tool that'll do the calcs for you on IBKR. I just grabbed a couple of puts for a short term play and noticed my buying power and maintenace margin jumped up a decent amount (I had 2 short puts at the time).
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