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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Yeah I want to enter a bps position 2/25 2x870/835 but realise that we're not done dipping this week, so it'll get worse before it gets better.

Since going all cash and one position at a time, I have a better overview on my margin and maximum exposure.

Just not clear when to step in :). I've set an order for -10.50. Let's see if anything bites.
 
The wide bid/ask would be related to the low volume of options at those unusual strikes. @InTheShadows It's generally better to stick with strikes with a higher volume to improve liquidity and fill prices. It also helps to have a lot of other options at a particular strike if there's ever a chance of one getting exercised.

Yea I normally do that, however this series of rolls started from a position I opened 11/30 last year. Started as 845/-1045. Today I did my 9th roll on them for a $1 debit and doubled the contracts and made them -945/845’s for 3/11. I’m leaving for vacation next weekend and don’t want to have to manage positions while vacationing.
 
I believe someone here wrote that assignment happens after market close so you can not get assigned during the trading day? Would be nice if any one can confirm this.
True for assignments happening only after hours.
My experience about early assignments: when extrinsic value is lesser than whatever risky interest costs (5-10%!) are btw now and the strike expiration .
That usually translates into less than $1-$2 on deep in the money short puts that I usually run (July $1400 for example)
 
NOT-ADVICE.

Like really for real - this is how I'm taking a bunch of leverage out of my portfolio and aiming for my own adequate level of income (based in historical life style). Its putting together familiar elements into something new for me, and I'm certain I'll be tweaking from here.


The larger approach / change to my strategy might be interesting for others as well.

My context is that I'm looking for dividend / income type of results. The thing that I sorted out over the last week is that to achieve a desirable outcome (generating actual living expenses worth of income) I need to achieve $2/share weekly results from my call and put sales. Last year and front of this year I've been using leverage (via share replacement calls and put spreads primarily) to get significantly better results. As well as significant bad results on occasion. I need to take out that level of volatility. While I'm at it, it'd be nice if I could reduce my daily effort somewhat, and I think I'll get that as a side effect.

Also part of my context is that in the end, excess results will go somewhat into lifestyle. Mostly the extra good results become more $$ to give away to worthy causes. While I look forward to giving away a lot of money, taking on significant levels of risk and leverage to get it isn't a good use of stomach acid.


I get to $2/week this way:

Given a little over $1M portfolio (net of taxes due, or in a retirement account), using today's share prices I can put that into 700 shares and have cash left over to support 5 naked puts. I think of this as having 12 total positions. At $2/week I'm getting $2500/week or $10k/month. The most important element here is that all of the positions are fully owned - no margin or other leverage involved.

I use the $1M portfolio and $10k/month as round numbers to make the math easy to work in one's head. If this is as good of a result as I get ($2/contract, 12 positions) for all weeks of the year, then that works out to a 12% return for the year. That might sound wimpy compared to some of the results we were seeing, but if you can find a 12% dividend anywhere else please let me know. This level of result makes this well worth my time.

I would like to do better, and I need to do better on some trades so that extra can offset losses that come along. These 12 positions are all positions that I can roll forever if desired. And the random net credit on each of those rolls can easily average out to $2/week, so even a roll when far ITM can yield the target weekly income.

The biggest risk I see are big and fast moves in opposite directions, happening back to back (to back, to back, ..). Big moves aren't $50 or even $100 per week. It's that level of move for 3+ weeks in a row. Even 3 $50 weeks in a row isn't a problem - 3 $100 weeks in a row in the same direction, with no or slow regression - that is the sort of scale one of those moves will need to be to become a problem. Followed by just enough time to get a little comfortable at the new level, before turning around for $300 in a short time (and back, and forth, ..).

I've seen these circumstances a couple of times now and I have a much more experienced and informed idea of how I'll react and handle them.

The most visible risk I can see is the opportunity cost of the shares taking off and my call strikes being unable to roll far enough, fast enough to keep up. I.e. - the $920 shares I bought today - maybe I roll the cc strike to 1100 before losing contact with the 1300 share price. Boohoo - my income strategy picked up an extra $180/share along with the cc credits, while missing out on the incremental $200. Yeah I'd like to get that extra $200, but this is income generation, not a portfolio growth focus. From that income perspective this is an extra 90 weeks of income. And in other circumstances of more sideways trading this will do marvelously.

I'm going heavier into share ownership than put sales - I want the extra exposure to moves up which I consider inevitable for Tesla, even if the next big leg up is 2 or 6 years away. As long as the week to week changes in the share price are slow enough (in my testing last night I could still get a $5 move in the strike price when $100 ITM (VERY IV dependent), or a $30 strike improvement for $75 ITM. For risk minimization reasons, and given the very low weekly credits I need to reach, any rolls for time will always be max strike (or max strike minus 1) when ITM. Well - or rolling to the ATM strike; that bit is more flexible :)

And since these are paired with winning sales on the other side, I also have the choice of taking the winning and larger credits from the other side to buy extra strike improvements while still achieving the $2/position weekly income.


The really big risk I see over time will be strike to strike changes when taking assignment. Those can be in my favor or against. Those that go against can also be large enough to easily wipe out months or more of income, so the extra credits over and above the small weekly income target are important. I am, in effect, improving my break even with all of the extra credits to prepare for any negative strike to strike changes.


Bigger picture management will start looking like the wheel. When the share price is relatively low as it is now more shares than puts is desirable. I'm going about 2:1. If the share price keeps going down, then more and more shares are desirable, thus taking assignment on some of the puts that go ITM (cash into shares).

As the share price goes up, and particularly as it approaches ATH territory, then the share count can start going down (taking assignment on the calls). I figure I might draw down as low as 1:1, but those are details I'll figure out later - not something I need to know now.


Oh yeah - and as cash accumulates, additional put and call sales can be supported, further improving income over the minimum!
If I was in your position I would fully play the wheel with semi aggressive strike prices. This will be more than 12% a year. Would love the day I’m not attached to the long term shares I have. This is the only reason I can’t let my CCs be in the money.
If one has $1M portfolio and looking for 12% income- what’s wrong with QYLD at 11.8%. Dividends pays out monthly. Maybe even use 400K margin at 3% :)
Personally I take TSLA potential appreciation of course.
 
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Little questions here, how do you calculate time value left on an option.

For my -p925 18/2 puts if I go on optionprofitscalculator option chain I see they are still worth 19.58 with a stock price of 922 so the extrinsic value is 16.58? I am hesitating to pulling the trigger to roll to next week today or tomorrow but I don’t want risk assignment.

if you are on TD thinkorswim, you can add a pre-defined column called "Extrinsic"

for ex, i have a quick trade that today went ITM; no panic since it is profitable and there is still 51.43 time value left

1645119622882.png
 
If I was in your position I would fully play the wheel with semi aggressive strike prices. This will be more than 12% a year. Would love the day I’m not attached to the long term shares I have. This is the only reason I can’t let my CCs be in the money.
If one has $1M portfolio and looking for 12% income- what’s wrong with QYLD at 11.8%. Dividends pays out monthly. Maybe even use 400K margin at 3% :)
Personally I take TSLA potential appreciation of course.
My expectation is I'll beat 12% like a drum. The point though is that is all that's needed.

Thanks for the pointer to QYLD. I'd never heard of that previously - I might need to do some research.
 
My expectation is I'll beat 12% like a drum. The point though is that is all that's needed.

Thanks for the pointer to QYLD. I'd never heard of that previously - I might need to do some research.


I too have been considering QYLD for sometime.

Attached is a link that is bearish it on it; and says why. I have attached it for those that wish to research it.



I may still buy some despite the points made in the article. Full disclosure; I don’t own any of it, but am keeping an eye on potential buying opportunities.

Not advise.
 
Yeah I want to enter a bps position 2/25 2x870/835 but realise that we're not done dipping this week, so it'll get worse before it gets better.

Since going all cash and one position at a time, I have a better overview on my margin and maximum exposure.

Just not clear when to step in :). I've set an order for -10.50. Let's see if anything bites.
They've bitten.
 
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STO 02/25 BPS - -$820 / +$720 P @$9.75 each just now - yay
I wanted to stay under the 200 day and lower BB and still have management down to 770ish depending on IV
Will look to close out around 50% or higher, was sticking with straight P's but this seemed like a good play... famous last words right?

Markets (in the US) are closed Monday - so 3 days of theta burn instead of 2 for the weekend helped push me over the edge.
 
STO 02/25 BPS - -$820 / +$720 P @$9.75 each just now - yay
I wanted to stay under the 200 day and lower BB and still have management down to 770ish depending on IV
Will look to close out around 50% or higher, was sticking with straight P's but this seemed like a good play... famous last words right?

Markets (in the US) are closed Monday - so 3 days of theta burn instead of 2 for the weekend helped push me over the edge.
I see markets being closed Monday as a bad thing if Russia invades after the Olympics. Our hands will be tied until Tuesday....
 
I see markets being closed Monday as a bad thing if Russia invades after the Olympics. Our hands will be tied until Tuesday....
Thanks for that, I would anticipate the opposite, more time for it to sink in and a rally to start.
Unfortunately (I don't have the chart but it was referenced again on the main thread) markets usually rally after the first shots are fired and are really only red during the lead up or concern about it, I guess that says a lot about our species in that it's scary when it is unknown but once it is known it is discounted.

I could very well be wrong, but there are some reasons for both sides - prolonging the lead up and eventual hot war or not is beneficial as I see it because the US is currently proposing a budget increase for the Defense department to $770B and these are the kind of tensions that get bigger defense budgets passed.
Once that is complete, I would imagine this goes from a possible WW3 scenario to - war games and back pedaling.

Again, just my thoughts, but it does seem suspicious timing for all of it.

Also - with TX producing Model Y's I can have a market outlook that is gloomy until April at least when we get our 3rd production factory adding to the balance sheet.
 
If I was in your position I would fully play the wheel with semi aggressive strike prices. This will be more than 12% a year. Would love the day I’m not attached to the long term shares I have. This is the only reason I can’t let my CCs be in the money.
If one has $1M portfolio and looking for 12% income- what’s wrong with QYLD at 11.8%. Dividends pays out monthly. Maybe even use 400K margin at 3% :)
Personally I take TSLA potential appreciation of course.
What do you all do with a Hertz buys, Elon sells situation? I sold CC's at 980 the week of the Hertz announcement and got called and then sold 1120 puts and got slaughtered by Elon selling shares. A white swan week followed by a black swan, not likely to happen again, but if it can, it will. I sold the shares after the market got way ahead of the calls, but I've pushed the 1120 puts out, not wanting to pay a premium. I think I should take the hit, but I've gotten more money moving the puts out, then I would get selling CC's at 1120.
Have you been good about taking losses early on big moves and slowing down if you hit a bad streak?
 
What do you all do with a Hertz buys, Elon sells situation? I sold CC's at 980 the week of the Hertz announcement and got called and then sold 1120 puts and got slaughtered by Elon selling shares. A white swan week followed by a black swan, not likely to happen again, but if it can, it will. I sold the shares after the market got way ahead of the calls, but I've pushed the 1120 puts out, not wanting to pay a premium. I think I should take the hit, but I've gotten more money moving the puts out, then I would get selling CC's at 1120.
Have you been good about taking losses early on big moves and slowing down if you hit a bad streak?
If you have the cash, you could let the Puts get assigned, and then sell more aggressive CC, like 950 strike. If they start to go ITM, roll them up each week until you get to 1120. Otherwise, just keep selling aggressive CC at lower strikes.
 
What do you all do with a Hertz buys, Elon sells situation? I sold CC's at 980 the week of the Hertz announcement and got called and then sold 1120 puts and got slaughtered by Elon selling shares. A white swan week followed by a black swan, not likely to happen again, but if it can, it will. I sold the shares after the market got way ahead of the calls, but I've pushed the 1120 puts out, not wanting to pay a premium. I think I should take the hit, but I've gotten more money moving the puts out, then I would get selling CC's at 1120.
Have you been good about taking losses early on big moves and slowing down if you hit a bad streak?
Yesterday I rolled my remaining -p1120 to december 16th, -1100p. These were originally sold at herz top and rolled after elon stsrted selling.. I decided to stop babysitting. Ties some margin for the rest of the year but that's ok. This roll brought a nice credit with it, about 17k/contract.