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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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I was staring at the 1Q TSLA earnings estimate wondering how the hell it doesn get crushed. Don't know anywhere near as much about GOOG, but just logically.....this looks crazy conservative to me.

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They've been growing earning y-o-y by like 80%, and PE has been compressed down to 21.32.

Might buy a few Friday calls if all is the same or worse Tuesday.
I don't know much about them either, but I think there's a lot of fear that advertising revenue will dry up as the economy slows, but tbh I think Google would be the last player to suffer from that, so I think the sell-off the last few days were exaggerated

Even at ATH, many think GOOGL was very undervalued

And as this bear market evolves, the best-in-class players, printing $B of profits every quarter, will become more obvious

But so much for diworsification of one's portfolio, eh...? Should stick to what I know
 
I don't know much about them either, but I think there's a lot of fear that advertising revenue will dry up as the economy slows, but tbh I think Google would be the last player to suffer from that, so I think the sell-off the last few days were exaggerated

Even at ATH, many think GOOGL was very undervalued

And as this bear market evolves, the best-in-class players, printing $B of profits every quarter, will become more obvious

But so much for diworsification of one's portfolio, eh...? Should stick to what I know

Weekend OT:
but I disagree on Google being the last to suffer - Apple's privacy implementation (regarding ads) has rocked the foundations of an industry that relies on advertisement for revenue. Look at what happened at Facebook. I don't remember where I read it, but Google has acknowledged that Apple's implementation is impacting their revenue too. Somewhere else I read that they are considering implementing the same systems on Android. In my mind this means there is a massive change underway in how these companies are going to generate revenues in future.
That being said, I do believe Google will prevail (together with Microsoft).
 
Decent week, cleared my monthly salary, though I left a lot of cash on the table by rolling and closing my -p1000s and -c1020s way too early. I was able to accurately predict the right options to sell and the IV crush, but again discovered that I don’t have enough patience to properly time when to sell/roll. I sold some CCs before the earnings announcement, obviously got less premium than if I’d waited until the next morning peak, but still managed to close them out for decent profit. Same with the CSPs, closed at a local SP peak, but then didn’t wait long enough to open for next week. In reality, I should have just held everything until the $1005 close. My impatience cost 25-50% of my realized profit.

Weekend pseudo-technical analysis: Next Friday’s close will be $1040.29.:rolleyes:;):mad::eek: And the real reason? I sold -c1040s last week to match the -p1000s that I rolled forward. Seriously, I have no idea and the graph below show that uncertainty. MaxPain suggests somewhere between 1000-1050, though selling that close is risky. Careful out there this week. Because of EOM 401(k) buying, expect a decent (3-4%) rise on Friday, and maybe even Monday 5/2.

Has anyone else traded strangles at +/- 2x ATM premium or similar method? Example, next week’s ATM premium is ~$32, so sell p940s and c1070s (delta ~0.20). This yields ~$20 premium, which seems very reasonable ($1M portfolio, split 50:50 CCs/CSPs could generate $20k/wk or $1M/yr in a perfect world). Unfortunately, I can’t seem to realize that much weekly premium, usually only 1%, followed by the eventual blowout week that takes all my profits back.:mad:
22A8DE39-ACB7-43E8-B4A9-D5E1396E8369.jpeg


F364BEF9-D0AF-4FD7-9EC4-C7586373AC59.jpeg
 
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Not even close. I had plenty of equity/margin available. The BPS was backed by 2X cash. Literally the position could run to zero, and I would have had plenty of cash left with no margin calls.

I'm guessing it had to have been early execution of the short put, and they closed the long put automatically with it. Again, the timing was just very suspect to me.
You probably didn't have enough cash to be assigned, and 3pm is deadline with some brokerages for you to resolve this kind of situation.
If SP closed at $995, your long leg is useless, and you need 3xUSD99.5K to take assignment from the short leg.
 
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Question on positioning for the future stock split and/or Moody’s upgrade to investment grade. We all expect the SP to rise due to increased buying and short covering. I’m only trading in my IRAs, and my brokerage doesn’t all me to take advantage of sophisticated spreads. So what’s are some ways to profit off of this? Here are a few that I’ve been reading and contemplating:
1) buy DITM LEAPS (eg, Jan2024 +c500s or similar). Lower risk, leverage, return, but still likely better than holding stock. Costs about 1/2 capital of the stock. Many people are able to sell LEAP-covered calls against them, further increasing profits.
2) buy OTM calls/LEAPS (eg, Jan22 +c1500s). Lower cost, adjustable, to less than 10% of stock capital, but risk partial or complete loss of principle if SP doesn’t rise enough.
3) sell ATM cash-secured puts, weeklies or monthlies. Higher cost, capped profit to about $10-$30/wk ($500-$1500/yr).
4) spreads like BPS or BCS
 
Decent week, cleared my monthly salary, though I left a lot of cash on the table by rolling and closing my -p1000s and -c1020s way too early. I was able to accurately predict the right options to sell and the IV crush, but again discovered that I don’t have enough patience to properly time when to sell/roll. I sold some CCs before the earnings announcement, obviously got less premium than if I’d waited until the next morning peak, but still managed to close them out for decent profit. Same with the CSPs, closed at a local SP peak, but then didn’t wait long enough to open for next week. In reality, I should have just held everything until the $1005 close. My impatience cost 25-50% of my realized profit.
NOT-ADVICE.

I'm curious - for each of these suboptimal situations (in retrospect) was there something you knew at the time that you also knew would lead to the sub optimal result? Is there a situation you can recognize the next time it arises, but do different then?

I ask because learning from the past in order to change future behavior will pay well (or at least it can). Coulda woulda shoulda though won't change future decisions. Only the future decisions have an opportunity to be improved on.


I consider the risk and stomach acid considerations to be at least as important as entry / exit, if not more important. When you closed the 1000 puts and the 1020 calls, did you do so at a good close at that moment? Was there very much left in the position to be earned, and was sticking it out for those last few $$ worthwhile? And did closing those early for a good but not great profit enable a later sale in a better position?

1% per week with a really really high hit rate, with losses occasional and scaled to be a week or two of earnings, is a stupidly strong result. Something like 40-60% annualized. So only $500k/year on a $1M account, instead of $1M/year on $1M account. And in this view of the world what holds the line on 50% annual results are loss management; staying out of losing positions in the first place, and managing them to small losses when necessary. As you commented, many winning weeks get wiped out by a bad week - thus avoiding losers is the real focus, not whether you earned 2% or 1% in the week :D


My own bias is towards early closes. I mostly keep waiting <50%, but am on a hair trigger around 50% and up. A big part of that is exiting the existing position so I'm ready to enter a replacement tomorrow when the shares regress. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. But with intent to collect most of 1 credit per week its easy to sit out for several days to open the position for the next weekly credit.

I also continue holding the larger positions that still have a lot of value to burn off. These are the exceptions - if I've earned $5 out of a $9 credit on a move in my favor, I'm likely out and looking for the next position. But that's me.

Question on positioning for the future stock split and/or Moody’s upgrade to investment grade. We all expect the SP to rise due to increased buying and short covering. I’m only trading in my IRAs, and my brokerage doesn’t all me to take advantage of sophisticated spreads. So what’s are some ways to profit off of this? Here are a few that I’ve been reading and contemplating:
1) buy DITM LEAPS (eg, Jan2024 +c500s or similar). Lower risk, leverage, return, but still likely better than holding stock. Costs about 1/2 capital of the stock. Many people are able to sell LEAP-covered calls against them, further increasing profits.
2) buy OTM calls/LEAPS (eg, Jan22 +c1500s). Lower cost, adjustable, to less than 10% of stock capital, but risk partial or complete loss of principle if SP doesn’t rise enough.
3) sell ATM cash-secured puts, weeklies or monthlies. Higher cost, capped profit to about $10-$30/wk ($500-$1500/yr).
4) spreads like BPS or BCS
NOT-ADVICE
My intention #1 for the stock split and investment grade upgrade. I'll be buying June '24 500s, hopefully with the shares closer to $900 (or lower!) sometime in May. This will be the bulk of my positioning and these calls will be share replacement positions for selling cc, and hopefully collecting a big share price move.

I'm just looking for -some- leverage on the upside move, with the bulk of the intent being backing for call sales.

I'm thinking about #2 but no real ideas.

#3 can generate a lot of cash now for immediate use. It'll lock up more cash though for a significant period, so I'm sticking with my usual weekly put sales strategy.

No way I go out long with a put or call credit spread :). There are some interesting call debit spread ideas, but its not something I've ever done. Maybe some others will fill us in with some ideas!


Worth noting that, at least at Fidelity, I've been trading put/call spreads and leap covered calls in my retirement accounts without a problem. You'll need to have level 2 permissions, with spreads (an additional application), and IRA margin (a 3rd application). IRA margin just enables trading on unsettled positions instead of waiting for settlement.

Your broker might do things differently, but the OCC permits that sort of trading. So its a brokerage limitation if its not supported.
 
Question on positioning for the future stock split and/or Moody’s upgrade to investment grade. We all expect the SP to rise due to increased buying and short covering. I’m only trading in my IRAs, and my brokerage doesn’t all me to take advantage of sophisticated spreads. So what’s are some ways to profit off of this? Here are a few that I’ve been reading and contemplating:
1) buy DITM LEAPS (eg, Jan2024 +c500s or similar). Lower risk, leverage, return, but still likely better than holding stock. Costs about 1/2 capital of the stock. Many people are able to sell LEAP-covered calls against them, further increasing profits.
2) buy OTM calls/LEAPS (eg, Jan22 +c1500s). Lower cost, adjustable, to less than 10% of stock capital, but risk partial or complete loss of principle if SP doesn’t rise enough.
3) sell ATM cash-secured puts, weeklies or monthlies. Higher cost, capped profit to about $10-$30/wk ($500-$1500/yr).
4) spreads like BPS or BCS

With a retirement account I think option #1 is the way to go. Like you said it is lower risk, good leverage and the weekly returns can add up.

I did the exact same thing with my IRA and bought Jan 2024 500 calls and selling weekly calls against 50% of my position. The other 50% is long dated short calls expiring in October/November 2022. Even with the recent spike from 800$ to 1150$ this strategy has been pretty good for me. I also leave some cash in the account in case there are flash crashes which allows me to get in and out of my short positions.
 
For each of these suboptimal situations (in retrospect) was there something you knew at the time that you also knew would lead to the sub optimal result? Is there a situation you can recognize the next time it arises, but do different then?
I’m not a discipled or patient trader, so that’s much of my problem. However, in this case I had a very important meeting Friday and needed to close out trades early (so, yes, something that I knew about in advance, but didn’t realize the amount of premiums that would be left on the table).
When you closed the 1000 puts and the 1020 calls, did you do so at a good close at that moment? Was there very much left in the position to be earned, and was sticking it out for those last few $$ worthwhile? And did closing those early for a good but not great profit enable a later sale in a better position?
Definitely not optimum, actually left $2.50 on the puts and $8 on the calls.:mad:🤬 The put roll into next week wasn’t too bad, maybe $20-$22 net, but not the $28-$30 that I could have received by waiting (not complaining because one never really knows what will happen, but in this case I was pretty sure the push down to near $1000 was coming to scare out the weak hands). I rolled the calls up, so only $12-$14 net. One problem with strangles for me has been rolling, which is suboptimal on one side or the other by definition.
1% per week with a really really high hit rate, with losses occasional and scaled to be a week or two of earnings, is a stupidly strong result. Something like 40-60% annualized. So only $500k/year on a $1M account, instead of $1M/year on $1M account. And in this view of the world what holds the line on 50% annual results are loss management; staying out of losing positions in the first place, and managing them to small losses when necessary. As you commented, many winning weeks get wiped out by a bad week - thus avoiding losers is the real focus, not whether you earned 2% or 1% in the week
Amen! Annual cumulative I’m still negative “on paper” because I’m not accounting for all the unrealized gains on the -p1100s that we’re pushed to Jan23.

Worth noting that, at least at Fidelity, I've been trading put/call spreads and leap covered calls in my retirement accounts without a problem. You'll need to have level 2 permissions, with spreads (an additional application), and IRA margin (a 3rd application). IRA margin just enables trading on unsettled positions instead of waiting for settlement.
Thanks, I’ve been seriously considering Fidelity, just waiting for some free time to get the transfer started.
 
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Worth noting that, at least at Fidelity, I've been trading put/call spreads and leap covered calls in my retirement accounts without a problem. You'll need to have level 2 permissions, with spreads (an additional application), and IRA margin (a 3rd application). IRA margin just enables trading on unsettled positions instead of waiting for settlement.
Quick question....

Are you able to day-trade spreads under this setup? I often get warnings about my ability to say trade positions as I place orders, but I think that's rooted in not having cash margin on hand.

I can't tell if this is an IRA rule in general or something specific to Fidelity. Would love to be able to open BPS in an MMD and close out in the afternoon +30%>
 
Quick question....

Are you able to day-trade spreads under this setup? I often get warnings about my ability to say trade positions as I place orders, but I think that's rooted in not having cash margin on hand.

I can't tell if this is an IRA rule in general or something specific to Fidelity. Would love to be able to open BPS in an MMD and close out in the afternoon +30%>
There is usually no problem with opening and closing a position in the same day in any account cash or not. The problem is when you open, close, open, because you are using funds that have not settled to open the second position. This is called a good faith violation, and limited margin on retirement accounts allows you to avoid that.
 
today is my first "buy LEAPS, sell CC" attempt

need not-advice please... buy JAN 2024 $500 at today's dip and keep track of credits/debits, amiright?

After that, STO CC 4/29. If it goes ITM, does my account buy stock (for selling), or is the LEAPS called away?

sorry for newbie question, couldn't find a dedicated LEAPS thread

TIA!
 
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today is my first "buy LEAPS, sell CC" attempt

need not-advice please... buy JAN 2024 $500 at today's dip and keep track of credits/debits, amiright?

After that, STO CC 4/29. If it goes ITM, does my account buy stock (for selling), or is the LEAPS called away?

sorry for newbie question, couldn't find a dedicated LEAPS thread

TIA!
You will have to take the shares if ITM - it is not a true Covered Call.
So either - roll out and up, close for loss, or sell the leap and pay to close the CC out (which should still be a net positive)
 
Thank you. My bias is towards not loosing the shares.... I also feel safer on weeklies right now, as the crystal ball is a little less cloudy than 2-4 weeks out.

To get a net credit roll to 1100 I'd have to go out to August..... so: bird in hand = 2 in bush (i.e. I'll roll for max strike improvement at a credit to next week)

Considering the good advice of rolling 4-5 DTE to avoid early assignment, I rolled my 4/29 -970 CC to 5/6 -995 CC for a buck this morning. Slowly slowly wins the race, I hope.

Will see how the week goes and maybe roll some more. Feels strange to have a strike above the current SP for a change....
 
The NASDAQ is near the YTD low at this point, so I'm hoping that macros don't drop much further, and don't continue to pull TSLA down. If macros recover, TSLA should hit 1200 easy.
Glad to see you back and getting after it!
Jet Fuel and maintenance bills are due next week! :p

I just opened a -$1050 / +$930 BPS for 06/17 for $60 each this morning. Not a large position (because starting ITM) but learning to use IV and Theta decay to bring some income in the 30DTE range.

Will monitor and report back if I get burned.
 
Considering the good advice of rolling 4-5 DTE to avoid early assignment, I rolled my 4/29 -970 CC to 5/6 -995 CC for a buck this morning. Slowly slowly wins the race, I hope.

Will see how the week goes and maybe roll some more. Feels strange to have a strike above the current SP for a change....
This strategy will certainly improve your profitability, and may get you out of CCs.
But pls consider how would you feel if next week we spike to $1300, when you have maybe $1010 CCs? Will you regret not taking a loss, or is this price where u r ready to sell for real? Speaking from experience, I've had both outcomes happen to me...
 
According to Yoona's data, 1200 should be safe this week, unless macro recovers and Tesla earnings are valued correctly....
last week 4/22:
  • actual OTM was +1.59% (Mon Open to Fri Close)
  • no IC loss this year, so far
  • lesson learned: winning is easy and almost automatic, what matters is knowing how to prevent/reduce loss
this week 4/29:
  • my IC is 860-1150
  • watching 947, this is my panic alert moment
  • 9-Day Average True Range is 52 (peak to low, for daytrading)
1650896834701.png
 
This strategy will certainly improve your profitability, and may get you out of CCs.
But pls consider how would you feel if next week we spike to $1300, when you have maybe $1010 CCs? Will you regret not taking a loss, or is this price where u r ready to sell for real? Speaking from experience, I've had both outcomes happen to me...

I've been rolling these more or less weekly since mid-March after the fiasco that had us run towards ATH. I originally STO these as 3/18 890CC in mid-March.

Always rolling up & out for a max strike improvement and min. $1 credit.

I bought back half the position at a loss already couple of weeks ago. Prefer not to repeat and prefer to keep my shares. Biggest issue with loosing the shares is that in Germany I'm taxed FIFO, and the shares backing this CC have a cost basis of around $60....!

So, now I'm just going to roll until I get caught, or I can get out of it. Anything over 1200 I'm willing to part with some shares (also for another reason), until then (or I get caught) I will roll up for as long as I can at a buck credit.
 
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