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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Thank you, I like the idea of knocking out the margin loan today by selling some puts not too far out.

What did you mean by “If the puts get exercised on you, you do end up paying more though”?

Also, what LEAP would you buy with the extra cash?

Finally, while no one obviously knows for sure, what’s the conservative consensus where TSLA might be in December?

Thanks again 🙏

Samppa suggested selling an OTM 700p, while I suggested an ITM 800p. Although you get ~$7500 more premium per contract for selling the put, the exercise price is $10000 higher ($80k vs $70k). That's what I meant.

As for LEAP suggestions, that's clearly not-advice territory! Although I am messing around with Jan '24 900c.

Edit:. Are you trading this in a taxable account or tax-deferred account? That would make a HUGE difference in your strategies.
 
Hi Doc and Samppa,

I arrived at $43k loss by adding up the total loss by lot, using shares I bought as the share prices was falling (see screenshot):

View attachment 829581


On one hand I really would like to hold onto all the 1,350 shares because it lowers the overall costs per share and the gains will be higher as the SP rises. But I can cut some of them loose this week (or next pop) to lower the margin balance. Though, I realize now I made a mistaken calculation, 350 shares x $720 @ current sp=$252k (not $350k thinking $1,000sp), so I'll have to cut loose another 100, for a total of ~$70k loss.

Leaning toward the following plan:
1) Asking TD to lower the interest rate from 9% to 4.080% to match or beat IBKR (anyone have success with this?)
2) Injecting some cash as it becomes available to lower margin loan
3) Maybe selling a few recent lower CB shares as the SP rises to reduce margin balance some more.
4) Learning about and then selling several weekly CC's, and use the $$ to cover interest fees and reduce margin balance some more
5) Scalping 50-100 shares carefully daily as TSLA fluctuates up and down, to cover interest fees and reduce margin balance some more (scalped about $2.5k last month).

This way I get to ultimately keep all the shares long.

--

Re your question about daily interest, at the current 9% it's $92.69/day; $2,780/mo; $33,832/year. BTW I got the figures off a sweet python-based app my 15 year-old son coded for me to monitor TSLA live (see screenshot). It sits in the lower right corner of my desktop and lets me keep an eye on the big picture, the numbers are dynamic to the live trading figures (uses Yahoo's API I think). The fields on the bottom three lines accept any numbers I put there and shows the results in the last column.

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Regarding the interest. You would need to earn roughly $1.75 per CC on those 400 shares/week to completely covered the cost. You won't be able to do that on "safe" 20% OTM weeklies. Anything more aggressive requires more rolling/managing skill. Let's see if we get a bump in the SP this week to help out with long term CC.
 
Another decent week, especially nice after being a little bit steamrolled the previous week. Last Friday, I was forced to sell some shares at ~$750 in order to roll ITM CCs to this week and farther out. Last Thursday, I had closed -c730s for about 85% profit, but then resold -c735s a few hours later for a net credit, figuring that they were “safer.” Then Friday happened. Oops. Roll for credit.

This week I was able to close out many of the CCs and buyback 2x the number of shares (at less than $700!)🥳 Undaunted by last week’s Thursday debacle, I repeated the Thursday timing day trading CCs, but this time closed out Fri for pennies.:cool:

I still have some 7/29 -c750s, but paired with -p750s, so able to roll the straddle if earnings blows the SP. Unfortunately, in one account my 9/16 -p1000s, rolled from January, have very little time value left and not enough cash or CC sales to buyback/roll. If we don’t have a SP spike soon, it will require a phone call to do the brokerage-assisted roll. This is the big problem with DITM options, little to no strike improvement on rolling and little to no premiums for selling the other side of the straddle. Oh well, everything is cash/share secured so no margin or spread leverage, so it will all work out eventually.

This weekend’s charting exercise includes a little review of Friday’s manipulations, which are clearly obvious when looking at the volume, SP and whether the SP changed quickly or was delayed minutes. Broad buying or selling by multiple accounts usually requires several minutes of sustained direction. Large trading volumes usually occur at round numbers (700, 720, 750, etc), where there are a significant number of orders built up over days or weeks. When the line is crossed, then the dam floodgates open and the SP changes rapidly until the order imbalance is rectified. Friday had lots of anomalous behavior, large volume spikes (at non-round SP) that didn’t change the SP, small volumes push down/ups that did, etc. Obviously MMs/Hedgies on either side of the 715 MaxPain trying to protect positions.

View attachment 829541

Note especially the 420k min trading at 15:15 that didn’t impact the SP until 2-3 min later, followed by the 65k at 15:30 that did. Finally, what effect will the last 5 min run over 720 mean for next week?

View attachment 829543
The 319k trades at 12:35 didn’t impact SP and was $715.25-$715.75. Furthermore, the SP had already traded through that range just minutes earlier, so someone must have just initiated the order, otherwise the volume would have been larger earlier (both on buy and sell sides, so the order book must have been “empty”). The 345k trade at 12:45 is more “normal, with immediate increases in SP. However, again, it must have been a buy order, otherwise it would have sold 3-4 min earlier at a higher price. Interesting trading.

Finally, here’s the last few weeks range. Volatility (historical) is coming down, so selling options is getting less profitable. MaxPain is showing numbers dropping into the 60s for future weeks, and we’ve been in the 70s recently. Obviously, we should expect an IV spike Monday-Wednesday, and a drop on Thursday. However, which way will it go? Should we be on the put or call selling side? I don’t know, but I’m hoping for a stable 700-750 SP and large IV drop. I’m short too many short term CCs and not enough free cash or short term puts for balance. I do have a few unencumbered lots and might sell CCs on the Wednesday spike, but still undecided. The last few rising days (macro and AAPL) make the next few days very uncertain. Be careful out there, hedge your trades, or be ready for an explosive change.
View attachment 829547
Do you think there is any impact from the new single stock TLSAQ ETF that the SEC has just allowed? Some folks on Twitter were thinking these new ETFs against single stocks/companies (like Game Stop, Tesla) are criminal and allow for more unethical trading to take down the SP and hurt retail investors to the benefit of hedge funds, etc. I don't know/understand anything about it....
 
Do you think there is any impact from the new single stock TLSAQ ETF that the SEC has just allowed? Some folks on Twitter were thinking these new ETFs against single stocks/companies (like Game Stop, Tesla) are criminal and allow for more unethical trading to take down the SP and hurt retail investors to the benefit of hedge funds, etc. I don't know/understand anything about it....
Calling them criminal seems kinda insane. I mean the SEC gave them a once over and said go for it. That kinda makes any claim of criminal pretty absurd.

I feel like somehow whoever set it up found a good way to get paid regardless of the outcome of the fund itself. And it seems like it might exacerbate tsla volitility. But tesla is self funded at this point so as long as there isn’t some catastrophic screw up the company will continue to succeed at a compounding rate regardless of short term stock pressures.

My guess is the ETF managers make bank and the people who put their money in lose it all. But it won’t be criminal. Unethical maybe. But it has the SECs blessing.
 
My portfolio is down $424k already today... but OK, on account of $GOOGL repricing, but the shares not yet adapted (200 -> 4000), I also have 5x J24 c3000's that will need to change - given the time it took for the $TSLA split, will be interesting to see if this also takes a couple of days to resolve

Edit: shares are adapted, options are not
 
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I'm not seeing anything of value premium wise so far this week, particularly as it's earnings week. I would have been happy to open some positions today and close by Wednesday afternoon but not at middling premiums. There's no point opening positions at a low premium just to have a macro move lock you into a loss position into earnings.

We look to be capped below $750 for now so CC premiums and especially BCS aren't looking great. Another solid green day tomorrow or macro push could do the trick but the $750 call wall is still a strong deterrent. Likewise it would take a strong red day to open at decent BPS premiums.

The options market appears to be pricing in around an 7-8% move after earnings. With a strong enough directional move there should be enough value to open something Thursday. An initial over-reaction sell the news followed by a strong recovery on closer inspection could be decent outcome for Thursday-Friday.
 
I'm not seeing anything of value premium wise so far this week, particularly as it's earnings week. I would have been happy to open some positions today and close by Wednesday afternoon but not at middling premiums. There's no point opening positions at a low premium just to have a macro move lock you into a loss position into earnings.

We look to be capped below $750 for now so CC premiums and especially BCS aren't looking great. Another solid green day tomorrow or macro push could do the trick but the $750 call wall is still a strong deterrent. Likewise it would take a strong red day to open at decent BPS premiums.

The options market appears to be pricing in around an 7-8% move after earnings. With a strong enough directional move there should be enough value to open something Thursday. An initial over-reaction sell the news followed by a strong recovery on closer inspection could be decent outcome for Thursday-Friday.
.45 for 20% OTM CC is pretty good I think (900 strike).
I'm waiting for a possible drop Thursday to sell BPSs.
 
So I did STO 7/8 -750c yesterday at $2.02 as the SP went further north of $700 (SP around $723.22). bad timing, did not expect it to breach $750. with the spike today I BTC 7/8 -750c for $9.7 STO 7/15 -770c for $17.78 (SP around $755.06) for a $20 strike improvement and $8 credit. I'm slightly annoyed at my broker because after I BTC the 7/8 750c, their system would not let me STO the 7/15 770c without waiting for an approval, with a message saying I don't have enough shares for it to STO in that account. this made the spread for the roll worse as I could have STO the 770c for close to $20 while I was waiting for that approval (took 5 minutes), and the BTC timing was bad too as it was $7-8 but the market order filled it at $9.7. I could have gotten a $12 credit instead of $8. oh well, a $20 strike improvement and $8 credit isn't too bad for waiting an extra week to potentially let the shares go.

Leaving the 7/15 -750C, and 9/16 -700C's alone for now
7/15 -750C $8.8 > $0 $8.8 credit
7/15 -770C $17.78 > $0 (rolled from 7/8 $750c), total credit for 2 weeks $2.02+8.08 = $10.10

STO 7/22 -750C $25.50 (SP around $746) to replace the 7/15 -750C

haven't opened a replacement position for the 7/15 -770C yet, will wait to see if SP goes higher today, tues or wed.

side note: Model Y interest estimator is sitting at 6.1% right now, with the recently Bank of Canada announced 1% rate hike, I m expecting 7.1% soon, and by the time the delivery happens, might end up paying 8-9% interest on the car. It becomes something ridiculous, car was $90k CAD but at 8% interest it ends up costing like $140k or something like that. The idea is as the car loan keeps going up, I m more and more leaning towards paying cash for it. But since the car isn't going to be delivered anytime soon, for the shares I need to pay for the car (about 100 shares), i will continue to sell aggressive CC to grind as much premium as I can, rolling when it makes sense but also would be very happy to have it assign at current prices.

The other note is the margin balance has a similar situation, but the margin loan is in USD so is based on the USA fed rate not Bank of Canada, current interest 6.25%, but if the fed hikes 1%, will be looking at 7.25 or even higher, again, same logic, will be happy to be assigned to be out of margin, but if not then sell aggressive cc, which is more than enough to pay for the interest making about 1% a week, rolling if necessary.
 
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.45 for 20% OTM CC is pretty good I think (900 strike).
I'm waiting for a possible drop Thursday to sell BPSs.
@BornToFly I wasn't referencing your 900/1000 BCS post at all with my post, so sorry if it appeared that way.

I'm looking at opening 860/900 BCS this week, around 17% above today's open. My target price for this is around $2, which would be a 20:1 risk/return ratio that I'd be OK with. Today it's peaked around $1.50 and now around $1.15. An OK return but there's a risk we climb into the higher 700's before Wednesday, leaving the $1.50 premium underwater.

I still see Thursday morning as the best opportunity to open BPS. Last Thursday morning I was able to open new BPS at the same strikes as one's I opened Monday but with a higher premium (and Monday's were after the initial dip at open). Btw target strikes for the BPS are currently 600/640 (-12.8%) but will re-evaluate if opened on Thursday.
 
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How many cont
@BornToFly I wasn't referencing your 900/1000 BCS post at all with my post, so sorry if it appeared that way.

I'm looking at opening 860/900 BCS this week, around 17% above today's open. My target price for this is around $2, which would be a 20:1 risk/return ratio that I'd be OK with. Today it's peaked around $1.50 and now around $1.15. An OK return but there's a risk we climb into the higher 700's before Wednesday, leaving the $1.50 premium underwater.

I still see Thursday morning as the best opportunity to open BPS. Last Thursday morning I was able to open new BPS at the same strikes as one's I opened Monday but with a higher premium (and Monday's were after the initial dip at open). Btw target strikes for the BPS are currently 600/640 (-12.8%) but will re-evaluate if opened on Thursday.
How many contracts do you buy/sell on average with that level of premium?
 
So why the sudden selloff? Any ideas?

Edit: OK, I think it's this - caused $AAPL to dump, which then affects the major indexes - $TSLA very strong today by comparison


Yep this was AAPl related. TSLA usually has a delayed sell off but hope it remains strong.

Sentiment wise any major news from AAPL is going to have a huge impact on the markets.