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Wiki Selling TSLA Options - Be the House

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Sorry if this is OT to the thread and more of a general options question.

@Knightshade was pointing out this morning it's best to monetize the MMD via options for leverage. Certainly makes sense and I fully understand the basic(non-spread) aspects of options. I'm thinking about getting started with actual cash and just want to make sure my strategy is near optimal. Also would be interested in ways to similarly attack the MMD but maybe with something less than total risk.

SP today immediately made a beeline for $705. Nothing new, we see this MMD action on more days than we don't. I want to simply buy calls near the bottom and sell at the recovery. I understand being wrong here means a total loss, but I'm fairly confident in targeting only the most obvious soon-to-recover MMD's.

Today for instance......at 10:20am with SP sitting at $703-705 an 8/13 $705c was priced around $8.30-9.00, then by 12:20 had recovered to $16. If I focus most heavily on Mon/Tues/Wed MMD's, I have to think I can squeeze out a reliable profit and perhaps hit some home runs. Any not-advice other than the obvious caveats of this being an obvious strategy that's very very hard to get right in a notoriously irrational and manipulated market? Should I get more complex to limit losses when wrong? Only buy slightly ITM calls? Only buy slightly OTM calls? Intra-week expirations vs slightly further out?

Thanks for any help. This thread is phenomenal.
I've done what you're thinking of doing with the MMD. TSLA tends to follow technical supports and resistances fairly well, so if it's at a support, buying a call can work out. What I've found is that it can also go against you pretty easily, and there's little recourse when buying. If you're day trading, I've done pretty well just watching the stock bounce around 4-5 points near resistance or support. Many days once the stock settles down it just stays in a tight range like that.

If you're looking to limit your risk, I can suggest 2 options for my not-advice. The first is what you're suggesting, just buying calls. Your risk is what you paid for the calls. That's fine, but if the MMD doesn't reverse, you don't have much of a recourse but to take a loss. Time value is against you when buying options. I imagine that's a reason most of the people in this thread are selling options rather than buying; you win even if the stock does nothing.

The second way to limit risk in your example is to sell a put spread (BPS), which is selling a put, then buying another put at a lower strike price. Eg, sell the 705p and buy the 695p. That also limits your risk to the spread amount (10 x 100) - credit on the spread, but you get the benefit of winning even if the stock price just sits at 705 for the rest of the week. Also, you have the option to roll the spread to the following week if the stock price drops beyond what you think is reasonable. Selling a 100 wide spread like most of the folks on this forum are doing (as am I) is functionally the same risk as selling a naked put, unless TSLA drops over 100 points out of nowhere, so keep that in mind.

Btw, just found this tread this week and I'm thrilled. Thanks so much to everyone for sharing your trades! I've been selling options on TSLA seriously for about 3 months and am doing about 10k per week, although I've had some expensive lessons along the way. I'm not sure what I have to offer, but I'll try to share some of my lessons in a future post.
 
I guess you can try to buy the call at MMD and set an "exit strategy" order. E-trade will set a stop order if things go south and a limit order to take profits. I am starting to do that on short term options that I buy because I am terrible at talking profits and cutting my losses. Since I am holder at heart I like to watch the call go to zero.



I think we should open another thread for non-TSLA Option selling. I am a little hesitant to sell options of other stock because I got in trouble before with QS chasing premiums. I guess at least SHOP is a quality stock.
I think a single option selling thread is fine, really.
The last 2 days what I've been doing is rolling my 800 naked calls down to 750 at the open, letting theta do the work, then rolling them back up to 800 before close. This way I can get most of the time value while still ready for any surprise in the AH and PM. Wouldn't be doing this if we had a decent up day but it is what it is.
 
I think a single option selling thread is fine, really.
The last 2 days what I've been doing is rolling my 800 naked calls down to 750 at the open, letting theta do the work, then rolling them back up to 800 before close. This way I can get most of the time value while still ready for any surprise in the AH and PM. Wouldn't be doing this if we had a decent up day but it is what it is.
So many different detailed mechanics that we're using - and I like hearing about them all. A little or a lot, they all go into the soup in my brain and come back out in my own choices (and personally experienced consequences).
 
Wow that’s cutting it close. A two word enigmatic tweet from Elon could send this stock up $20 in a couple of hours.

Worst case scenario, you roll up and out and wait it out for a few weeks, I guess.

I am actually needing the cash relatively soon, so if it pops up over it than I'll sit back and relax. I'll sell puts off the cash until I need it to loan to my brother. You know, do the wheel thing with these options. ;)
 
I think a single option selling thread is fine, really.
The last 2 days what I've been doing is rolling my 800 naked calls down to 750 at the open, letting theta do the work, then rolling them back up to 800 before close. This way I can get most of the time value while still ready for any surprise in the AH and PM. Wouldn't be doing this if we had a decent up day but it is what it is.
@dl003

Thanks for the strategy. I wanted to put some numbers to it to make sure i have it straight. I'm using numbers from today's chart, ignoring the large drop in the opening minutes.

BTC 800C ~ 0.15 - start of day
STO 750C ~ 1.00 - start of day
BTC 750C ~ 0.60 - end of day
STO 800C ~0.13 - end of day

+0.40 or 40% on the 750Cs
-0.02 on the 800Cs
Net = 0.38 on the day
 
@dl003

Thanks for the strategy. I wanted to put some numbers to it to make sure i have it straight. I'm using numbers from today's chart, ignoring the large drop in the opening minutes.

BTC 800C ~ 0.15 - start of day
STO 750C ~ 1.00 - start of day
BTC 750C ~ 0.60 - end of day
STO 800C ~0.13 - end of day

+0.40 or 40% on the 750Cs
-0.02 on the 800Cs
Net = 0.38 on the day
Yes. It's in the ballpark.
My closing up roll was 0.5 to 0.13 so it's about 0.48 for the day.
 
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How much are you paying in trading/contract fees?
about $1.3 total for each roll (not per share). Once the calls are not worth rolling anymore, which they should be tomorrow, I'll just close them.
I have some 730 CC that I'm leaving alone for the entirety of this week. The naked ones though, I try to milk them as much as possible without getting myself in for nasty surprise.
 
I haven't seen any indication that Gary or Emmet are aware of the need for a shareholder vote to endorse an increase in shares for a stock split above about 1:1.9. Tesla could still announce the intention for a stock split when calling for a vote, say at the annual shareholders meeting. But I doubt they'll put out an announcement like last time and this could diminish the potential for a short term play.
 
I was thinking about selling options on non-TSLA. Didn't know where to start. Thank you!
Sold 5 P660 MSTR for next week
Sold 5 P1450 SHOP for next week

Happy with both having looked at the open interest charts as being low risk.

Let me know if you want me to setup a thread for non-TSLA Option selling or keep it all in one place.
While I’m happy for your trades, I would prefer to keep this thread on-topic (“Applying options strategy 'the wheel' to TSLA”). There are plenty of other trading threads:
Newbie trading
Other stocks
KISS Trading
Options trading
Options spreads
Advanced options
 
I think a single option selling thread is fine, really.
The last 2 days what I've been doing is rolling my 800 naked calls down to 750 at the open, letting theta do the work, then rolling them back up to 800 before close. This way I can get most of the time value while still ready for any surprise in the AH and PM. Wouldn't be doing this if we had a decent up day but it is what it is.
That's a very interesting strategy, day-trading shitcalls on theta and IV - as you observe, we have an IV spike every morning, as a rule, that typically doubles the premium on 10% OTM weekly calls, can you share some details the trading pattern for us?

I took a look a $SHOP and while I agree that playing another underlying might be very lucrative, and healthy too, I'm not convinced the premiums are any better. For a start the $SHOP IV is slightly lower than $TSLA right now. Second point is that the share price is 2.2x that of $TSLA, so you can only sell roughly half the number of puts or calls, and guess what, the premium prices just so happen to be roughly double that of $TSLA options, so the end result is pretty much the same for a given amount of deployed capital

This was a very rough analysis by someone with no idea what they're talking about, so I won't feel bad if you shoot me down...
 
I haven't seen any indication that Gary or Emmet are aware of the need for a shareholder vote to endorse an increase in shares for a stock split above about 1:1.9. Tesla could still announce the intention for a stock split when calling for a vote, say at the annual shareholders meeting. But I doubt they'll put out an announcement like last time and this could diminish the potential for a short term play.
I think just the question being put to shareholders would imply an impending split and cause a lot of short covering, plus crazy call buying and the resulting gamma squeeze that would entail

On the flip side, there's also the possibility that people are anticipating such a move and this could be part of the recent SP rise, so if there is no such shareholder vote we might see a sell-off

Or if Hiro is being really sneaky, they skip it from the shareholder meeting, then announce a special meeting to vote on it a few weeks later

Who knows! Never a dull moment, eh?
 
I'll have to check it out - the predictability of SHOP being similar to TSLA (up) over a relatively long timeframe is why I like it. Have you found MSTR to have any predictability?

I follow bitcoin closely and there’s an entire field called onchain analysis that give you a good idea of bitcoin activity. It’s An amazing community like Tesla and the type of technical analysis you get on blockchain data is a different universe than stocks. You have records of specific large institution wallet addresses and real time see when they start preparing large block sell activity.
 
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I think just the question being put to shareholders would imply an impending split and cause a lot of short covering, plus crazy call buying and the resulting gamma squeeze that would entail

On the flip side, there's also the possibility that people are anticipating such a move and this could be part of the recent SP rise, so if there is no such shareholder vote we might see a sell-off

Or if Hiro is being really sneaky, they skip it from the shareholder meeting, then announce a special meeting to vote on it a few weeks later

Who knows! Never a dull moment, eh?
I think sell off during AI day is very likely no?
 
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That's a very interesting strategy, day-trading shitcalls on theta and IV - as you observe, we have an IV spike every morning, as a rule, that typically doubles the premium on 10% OTM weekly calls, can you share some details the trading pattern for us?

I took a look a $SHOP and while I agree that playing another underlying might be very lucrative, and healthy too, I'm not convinced the premiums are any better. For a start the $SHOP IV is slightly lower than $TSLA right now. Second point is that the share price is 2.2x that of $TSLA, so you can only sell roughly half the number of puts or calls, and guess what, the premium prices just so happen to be roughly double that of $TSLA options, so the end result is pretty much the same for a given amount of deployed capital

This was a very rough analysis by someone with no idea what they're talking about, so I won't feel bad if you shoot me down...
Yeah SHOP is no better, have to find a company you have conviction in with a higher IV. I don't know anything about MSTR but it was mentioned here and it has IV of nearly 1, so it has quite a bit more juicy premiums.
 
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MM seem to have TSLA in a comfortable channel between $705 and $715 at this stage. Updated OI suggests they'd like a Friday close below $710 but definitely under $720 at this stage.

This should be an interesting week:
STO 100 x 670/695 750/755 IC @ $3.85
STO 90 x 665/690 750/775 IC @ $3.18
Given the above I decided to roll the call side of my IC's down to either 730/755 or 735/760. I didn't time all rolls as I'd like but still pocketed an extra $20,500 in premiums along the way.
 
I said yesterday that I'd try to contribute a bit of what I've learned. I've been trading options in general for a couple of years, and TSLA heavily for the last 3 months. This won't be a long guide or anything like that, but maybe some more data for everyone to digest. Thanks again to everyone for sharing their trades and strategies.

Like most of the folks here, I'm selling options for the most part. I've got 3 main strategies.
  1. Iron Condors. Hopefully this is a well know strat. Just look at supports and resistances and call/put walls, and sell maybe 5 points outside of those. Eg, this week I put on 690p/670p/750c/770c. Assuming that the SP stays between 690 and 750, I'll take home about $3 per contract. If it goes against me, I can roll or take a 17k loss per contract. I'd probably close the position early if it looked that dangerous though (eg, stock split was announced).
  2. Naked Condor (I made that name up, maybe what I'm doing is actually called something). This is riskier, and what I mainly try to do. Basically I use the volatility of the stock to try to time putting on each half of an IC. So for instance, if the stock is near support and/or a put wall, I'll sell a naked put, or a put spread either ATM or just outside support. Then I'll put in a market order for a call (sell calendar against my LEAPs) to be executed when the stock price reaches what I think is reasonably close to the resistance.
    1. Eg, yesterday I sold two put spreads, 700/650 and 695/610, when the SP was around 705 (which I incorrectly thought would be the bottom). Then I sold some 720 calls when the price had recovered a bit. It then continued to recover back up to resistance (715ish) and so I sold some more.
    2. Best results I get from this are from using limit orders (actually market orders set to execute on a SP target on Thinkorswim). If I try to sit there and watch the ticker, I get impatient. You want to go $1-$1.50 away from where you think the SP should go; eg, this morning maybe you thought we'd retest the 715 resistance, so I'd put in order in for 713.50 (which it hit) if I wanted more calls sold.
    3. I try to balance the positions. So if I have 10k of credit sold on the put side, I'm going to look to open about 10k of credit on the call side.
    4. If the SP moves dramatically, I'll probably close the half of it that's 80%+ profit and look to reopen it later in the week, or roll it up to a closer to the money strike. Depending on the week, I might close all of my positions early if I suspect a big move from MMs on Friday, or if I'm just happy with my profits.
  3. Friday frenzy. Unfortunately, it seems that the MMs have near iron control of the SP, at least for the last few months on low volume and on Fridays to meet max pain. Why not take advantage of that knowledge, is my thinking. So on Fridays, I'll look to sell ITM options that are near max pain. Eg, last Friday, I should have sold 697.5p in the morning, since that was max pain and about 15 points away from open. I didn't, so that Friday went poorly. I've done both incredibly well and very poorly with this strat, so I'm planning to tone it down. I'd rather do fun things on Friday anyway.
Other general things I've learned:
Selling ATM is the best bang for your buck, but it is also giving me grey hair ;). I'm moving to more ICs and not futzing with my positions so much.

The selling against LEAPs strategy is also called a calendar spread or a Poor Man's Covered Call, if you want to google them. I chose to do that instead of buying shares because I wanted a large cash position, and because I think TSLA will dramatically increase in price sometime this year. The upside is that I can sell more calls for less principle, and I have way more delta exposure than if I were holding shares. The downside is that if the stock price doesn't rise regularly, I'll have to use the premiums I'm collecting to pay for theta. Also, if the SP goes really far against me, I will have to use too much margin on the spreads to keep trading. Eg, I'm holding a lot of 600 strike LEAPs, which is great for right now, but if the SP dropped to 500, then I'd have to use as much as 10k margin per covered leap in this strategy. So I'd need to sell those LEAPs and buy further down. I had this problem when I was first starting out due to TSLA's poor spring.

Managing positions. Generally, unless you have a pretty good reason to think otherwise, when you're afraid is when you should buy, and when you're greedy is when you should sell. Let's say I had on some sold 720 calls that I opened at SP 715, and the SP shoots to 725, putting my position down $600 or so per contract. That's going to look scary as heck, and the temptation is to close the position for a loss. Sometimes that's what I would do, but generally the better play is to average in and sell more. I might reevaluate if the SP hits 730, but generally the SP will dip again shortly, and then if I don't like the position, I can exit even instead of at a loss. This is risky, but it works more often than it doesn't. This does mean that I'm using not using all of my firepower though. Eg, if I can sell 40 calls on LEAPs, then I'll try to target 20 calls sold so that I can get myself out of trouble (or into more, lol) if need be. Also, that lets me roll into next week if I have to and still have some firepower.

Obviously, not advice, just what I'm doing. It's been mostly successful, but I always wish I could do better. Still learning!

Some resources:
The Stocks Channel:
This guy does a daily review of the markets as well as a few large cap stocks. TSLA is one he covers every day, with supports and resistances. He's great, imo, and I also sub to his discord server for additional info and updates during the day on the market in general.

Barchart:
Barchart.com offers some decent support and resistance levels for any stock. I don't rely on this exclusively, but like to actually look at the chart, and see what youtubers have to say as well.

Max Pain:
I assume everyone here already knows about this.